Higher_Ground

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Jeep is in the business of selling people more than one vehicle. They will happily sell you a fully electric Jeep to go along with your ICE Jeep. No need to choose.

 

dukecola

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Jeep is in the business of selling people more than one vehicle. They will happily sell you a fully electric Jeep to go along with your ICE Jeep. No need to choose.
When the fully electric comes out, I will be getting one. Something about $6 in electricity for a fill up and no maintenance is what I like.
 

DaveNH

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Go back and read what I wrote. You seem to be picking and choosing to try and make some unknown point. My intent has been to provide technical information about various aspects of the system.

Any yes, whenever the government spends more than it takes in, it puts a burden on current and future taxpayers to make up the difference, since the governments primary income source is what it collects from the taxpayers.
No, I understood your point just fine. You claimed that the tax credit creates the deficit. But it's spending that creates the deficit.

It is not incumbent upon the taxpayer to make up for the failures of govt. Keeping more of your own money cannot CREATE a burden upon others.

For that to be true, govt must be considered to have a prior claim on all property (income in this case). In this sense, anything govt allows you to keep may be considered a "payment," and create the deficit.

You also argued that the tax credit is a "reduction of the taxes they should be paying."

This puts the tax credit, by your argument, outside of the taxpayer's "calculated share."

My point is that almost all refunds...the "excess paid in"...arises from arbitrary reductions in the tax demanded. Otherwise we'd just pay tax on gross income.

You are arbitrarily defining the credit as being "more than a return of excess paid in." But the standard deduction, or itemized deductions, are not fundamentally different, and are a "reduction of the taxes they should be paying."

There's no reason the phev credit shouldn't be considered a part of the calculated share, just as with the child tax credit (just as arbitrary).

If anything, it's a stronger argument to eliminate all deductions and credits as long as a deficit exists.

For 2020, the IRS collected about $3.4 trillion in taxes. There was a deficit of $3.1 trillion. And yet more than $736 billion in refunds were issued. That's not insignificant.

Those refunds have exactly the same effect on future taxpayers as the phev tax credit. But you only indict the latter.
 

j.o.y.ride

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Going to the Sierra's tomorrow with my neighbor who has a stock JULR 4xe. Factory 33" KO2s. Will see what his mileage is like after he runs out of his morning's charge.

The issue for most isn't just the miles on battery only, it's what happens next.
 

5JeepsAz

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No, I understood your point just fine. You claimed that the tax credit creates the deficit. But it's spending that creates the deficit.

It is not incumbent upon the taxpayer to make up for the failures of govt. Keeping more of your own money cannot CREATE a burden upon others.

For that to be true, govt must be considered to have a prior claim on all property (income in this case). In this sense, anything govt allows you to keep may be considered a "payment," and create the deficit.

You also argued that the tax credit is a "reduction of the taxes they should be paying."

This puts the tax credit, by your argument, outside of the taxpayer's "calculated share."

My point is that almost all refunds...the "excess paid in"...arises from arbitrary reductions in the tax demanded. Otherwise we'd just pay tax on gross income.

You are arbitrarily defining the credit as being "more than a return of excess paid in." But the standard deduction, or itemized deductions, are not fundamentally different, and are a "reduction of the taxes they should be paying."

There's no reason the phev credit shouldn't be considered a part of the calculated share, just as with the child tax credit (just as arbitrary).

If anything, it's a stronger argument to eliminate all deductions and credits as long as a deficit exists.

For 2020, the IRS collected about $3.4 trillion in taxes. There was a deficit of $3.1 trillion. And yet more than $736 billion in refunds were issued. That's not insignificant.

Those refunds have exactly the same effect on future taxpayers as the phev tax credit. But you only indict the latter.

We the people, in order to for a more perfect union....

government is us.

IT SURE ISN'T ANYONE ELSE, THAN US..

and supporting government is our civic duty, in this citizen American's opinion.
 


Spur

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I think myself that we have more machinery of government than is necessary, too many parasites living on the labor of the industrious. Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have ... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases. The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first.

Thomas Jefferson
 

Spur

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When the people are afraid of the government, that's tyranny. But when the government is afraid of the people, that's liberty.

Thomas Jefferson
 

Spur

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The issue today is the same as it has been throughout all history, whether man shall be allowed to govern himself or be ruled by a small elite.

Thomas Jefferson
 


Spur

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Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.

Thomas Jefferson
 

Spur

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You know well that government always kept a kind of standing army of newswriters who, without any regard to truth or to what should be like truth, invented and put into the papers whatever might serve the [government] ministers. This suffices with the mass of the people who have no means of distinguishing the false from the true paragraphs of a newspaper.

Thomas Jefferson
 

 
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