Spur

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No generation has a right to contract debts greater than can be paid off during the course of its own existence.

Thomas Jefferson

 

Spur

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Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.

Thomas Jefferson
 

Spur

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The true theory of our Constitution is surely the wisest and best, that the States are independent as to everything within themselves, and united as to everything respecting foreign affairs. Let the General Government be reduced to foreign concerns only, and let our affairs be disentangled from those of all other nations, except as to commerce, which the merchants will manage the better, the more they are left free to manage for themselves, and our General Government may be reduced to a very simple organization, and a very inexpensive one; a few plain duties to be performed by a few servants.

Thomas Jefferson
 


Mr._Bill

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No, I understood your point just fine. You claimed that the tax credit creates the deficit. But it's spending that creates the deficit.

It is not incumbent upon the taxpayer to make up for the failures of govt. Keeping more of your own money cannot CREATE a burden upon others.

For that to be true, govt must be considered to have a prior claim on all property (income in this case). In this sense, anything govt allows you to keep may be considered a "payment," and create the deficit.

You also argued that the tax credit is a "reduction of the taxes they should be paying."

This puts the tax credit, by your argument, outside of the taxpayer's "calculated share."

My point is that almost all refunds...the "excess paid in"...arises from arbitrary reductions in the tax demanded. Otherwise we'd just pay tax on gross income.

You are arbitrarily defining the credit as being "more than a return of excess paid in." But the standard deduction, or itemized deductions, are not fundamentally different, and are a "reduction of the taxes they should be paying."

There's no reason the phev credit shouldn't be considered a part of the calculated share, just as with the child tax credit (just as arbitrary).

If anything, it's a stronger argument to eliminate all deductions and credits as long as a deficit exists.

For 2020, the IRS collected about $3.4 trillion in taxes. There was a deficit of $3.1 trillion. And yet more than $736 billion in refunds were issued. That's not insignificant.

Those refunds have exactly the same effect on future taxpayers as the phev tax credit. But you only indict the latter.
I explained certain terms and you are taking those out of context to try and claim I meant something you don't like. It's obvious you're just looking for an argument. So I'll leave you with this.

Tax credits do contribute to the deficit. The income tax system started as a flat percentage everyone paid, and was a single page form. It has morphed into a system that provides arbitrary charges, credits, and refunds to support social agendas and multiple government programs. As citizens, we have elected representatives that put the system in place and change it when they want. The governments primary income is taxes collected from the citizens. Trying to argue that the government doesn't have a claim to a portion of your income is a losing proposition. How much they go after is determined by the current batch of elected representatives. That's why the current push towards socialism is a real threat to all of us. Socialist governments lay claim to everything so they can redistribute it as they see fit.
 

AleYeah

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Love the Gojira mask!!!
Hopefully I don't have to bring it out of retirement!

Back in 2019, I saw them play at an indoor venue- The Orange Peel in Asheville, NC- with a standing capacity of 1,050. It was wild, man.
 

DevilsBrew

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Hopefully I don't have to bring it out of retirement!

Back in 2019, I saw them play at an indoor venue- The Orange Peel in Asheville, NC- with a standing capacity of 1,050. It was wild, man.
Dude that must have been intense in such a small venue!!! Had tickets to see them in Seattle in Sept.... that concert had to be reschedule to next April. Sucks but at least I get to see them in 9 months.
 

MPMB

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Check your inbox.
The government's money comes from the taxpayers. The Electric Vehicle purchaser gets a reduction of the taxes they should be paying in. This loss has to be made up by the other taxpayers. The government is using taxpayer money to prop up an industry that would likely fail otherwise. Our country is in serious trouble because the government spends more money than it takes in, and has been doing so for decades. That shortfall is made up with loans that they currently have no way to repay.
You spelt "centuries" wrong.

I tend to love (sarcasm) the cognitive dissonance of accepting taxing businesses, thinking it's not a tax on ourselves. Who pays for all the s**t businesses sell? US, MOTHERF**KERS! A micro example is the city of Seattle enacting a gun and ammo tax for guns and ammo sold in city limits. The geniuses who crafted this baloney said it would raise at least $300,000-$500,000 in tax revenue the first year.

The city didn't want to release the tax revenue after a year of collecting, since they said people could determine the amount of sales a "big box" retailer was selling. Turns out it was less than $100,000. And most FFLs just moved out of the city.

Just because the tax is benefitting from economies of scale doesn't mean consumers still aren't footing the bill.
 

Slojo

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Hilarious! I just found this thread, so clicked to last page expecting to read some opinions about... EV Jeeps, you know mechanical questions, range, capability, what can be done in 10 years, etc... It is like the old kid commo game where you whisper something in one persons ear and by the time it goes around the circle you get...
 


Slojo

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Why would “Jeep enthusiast” want autonomous off road driving?
Mild attempt to talk about EV + and -. Similar to the video, my spouse and I like to hike and we are older. If I could tell the vehicle to meet me at a different trail contact point it would provide an interesting option. I think on the video timeline this was 2030 beyond so maybe a mute point for me! My daughter said she was amazed at how they do not age at all so I am really hoping that is a side benefit of the EV Wrangler.
 

DaveNH

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I explained certain terms and you are taking those out of context to try and claim I meant something you don't like.
You talked around certain terms to avoid the obvious implication. I didn't take anything out of context.

As I said before, you are just okay with certain arbitrary reductions in tax demanded, but not others.... because reasons.

You've yet to explain how the tax credit fundamentally differs from what you call the "calculated share."

Tax credits do contribute to the deficit.
Spending more than you earn /= earning less than you spend.

It has morphed into a system that provides arbitrary charges, credits, and refunds to support social agendas and multiple government programs.
Irrelevant as to the nature of the credit.

Edit: I must say that the irony of you decrying socialism while making a collectivist argument is quite amusing.
 
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