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Leaking axle seal?

ShadowsPapa

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So you are saying machines are always right? Or every single assembly that moves down the line gets the same amount? They don't run any other axles on that line? "X" amount couldn't be off by a little bit more than what the book says? Weren't there some assemblies with no lube sent out? Or was that the driveshaft support bearing with no grease? A lot of what about this or what about that. I understand you have a mechanical background but you aren't the only one that knows automobiles and what you say isn't the say all be all. You weren't there on the line when these assemblies were built so you really can't say it wasn't overfilled. It could be multiple of issues that lined up for the perfect storm. Who knows and again I'm sure we'll never know the true answer.
LOL OMG - you even doubt your doctor.
Yeah, in this case I'd say I am right.
You aren't getting the logic - or LACK OF related to the "over-fill" talkers.
Mechanical background? Well beyond that. (I've taught this stuff)

So you and no one else has explained how being over-full will cause a leak - explain how. Show me how it would happen. Why would oil on the back side of a seal cause a leak - explain in detail. You can't.
You can't even explain why the RIGHT seal and not the left - why not the pinion seal? IF it's over-full causing this - why not the left axle? I'm waiting........ explain why being over-filled will only leak out the right side.
I can explain how it wouldn't cause a leak.
You have no logic at all - just don't like my explanation. You want a simple answer - you want to blame someone.
It doesn't matter if they are a bit over full. Seals are made to run IN oil with oil behind them. In fact if there wasn't any oil, they'd burn up.

If people think there's too much, like I say, pull the freaking plug and look! If it doesn't run out, it's not too full. Even if it does it won't matter.
There, that's simple! If you have an axle seal leaking simply pull the plug, if nothing comes out it's not over-full! Gee, wasn't that easy??
That means it won't leak any more, RIGHT?
If the "it's over-full, that's the reason" people are correct then if you have a leaking axle seal, pull the fill plug, and if lube runs out, let it - put the plug back in and you've just fixed it because gpwrang says that's a cause of these leaks.

Seals are made/designed to run with oil fully behind them - clear up to the top.
The bottom seal on your lawn mower engine is a great example - running 4,000 RPM with oil sitting on top of it - a quart of oil laying on top of that seal. So how could a differential being over-full cause a leak? Explain it - instead of arguing against me by saying "because I said so and you aren't necessarily right".
They are made to hold up to 7 psi back - in most cases, some even more, but a typical single lip seal can handle some pressure.
In fact, some pressure SEALS THEM tighter.

These are typical seals like used in axles. The red arrows on the right part of the image represent any pressure that may exist. Any pressure in the housing presses EQUALLY in ALL DIRECTIONS. That's a law, a rule - I didn't make it up, it's the science of pressure, hydraulics, etc. Any pressure in that housing presses equally in ALL directions. INCLUDING on the lips of the seal.
That means the pressure actually holds the seal lip tighter against the axle. So a certain amount of pressure is not a negative thing. Too much is because it causes WEAR, friction.

Jeep Gladiator Leaking axle seal? seals-1


Gee, look at this, a text book drawing showing OIL against the back of an AXLE SEAL. Amazing, so is this over-full too? This book MUST BE WRONG because we know any lube in that tube will cause leaks.

I have other BOOKS that explain this as well - from FORD, GM and others. So I guess if I'm crazy so are Ford and GM engineers?
OIL against the back of the SEAL - normal, not too full. This is what seals do.

Jeep Gladiator Leaking axle seal? seal-2


Here is one with a bit of preload using what they call a garter spring. Yes, that's the name. It keeps the seal lip tight in cases of NO PRESSURE, as in front wheel bearings of a car but is also used in engine seals where there's light weight oil, etc. It's just a different design.

Jeep Gladiator Leaking axle seal? radial-lip-seal_l


Here's another one I modified to show how any pressure (within reason) PUSHES the lip of the seal tighter on the shaft to seal even better. Pressure is equal in all directions meaning it pushes the lip against the shaft.

Jeep Gladiator Leaking axle seal? radial-lip-seal_lg-2
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ShadowsPapa

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Took a long drive to Maine today. Got out took a look and no leak......until I returned from walking the shops and having lunch in Kittery that is...checked again and dripping with a small pooling of fluid in the back of the wheel......
Do me a favor - pull the fill plug and check the lube level............
 

ZSum73

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Do me a favor - pull the fill plug and check the lube level............
I did some leaked out then stopped. I hoped that solved it and it didn't. So it's either the seal or the restrictive vent breather or both in.my opinion. Im No mechanic and you seem to have it covered, so after your explanation my conclusion is the seal is compromised in some way on the right rear and not on the other side. But why is axemans leak slowing or stopped with out repair and level of fluid at correct level? Why do some get repair and all is well and some leak again? If the seal is compromised it can't fix itself...idk just wish FCA and Dana would address it and figure it out. I'm just upset my new 51k truck needs to be pulled apart with under 500 miles...
 

ShadowsPapa

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I did some leaked out then stopped. I hoped that solved it and it didn't. So it's either the seal or the restrictive vent breather or both in.my opinion. I. No mechanic and you seem to have it covered, so after your explanation my conclusion is the seal is compromised in some way on the right rear and not on the other side. But why is axemans leak slowing or stopped with out repair and level of fluid at correct level? If the seal is compromised it can't fix itself...idk just wish FCA and Dana would address it and figure it out.
I, too, am wondering about a combination of things - a compromised seal and/or installation that might otherwise "work" pretty much, but leak with any pressure build up.
So swapping vent valves seems to stop the leak - a leak that should not have been there to begin with so all it's done by changing the vent is to hide a problem that's still there.

I've been running different scenarios in my head trying to see if I can figure out why the outliers here - why sometimes leak, not other times, why not leak for a long trip that should have heated the lube and made it "thinner" and at the same time built a bit of pressure - but it didn't leak and then later did?

I've wondered about a shaft with some runout on the sealing surface - that will flex the seal lip........... and explains a leak, but I've not dedicated much time to figure out why sometimes, not others.
 

ZSum73

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I, too, am wondering about a combination of things - a compromised seal and/or installation that might otherwise "work" pretty much, but leak with any pressure build up.
So swapping vent valves seems to stop the leak - a leak that should not have been there to begin with so all it's done by changing the vent is to hide a problem that's still there.

I've been running different scenarios in my head trying to see if I can figure out why the outliers here - why sometimes leak, not other times, why not leak for a long trip that should have heated the lube and made it "thinner" and at the same time built a bit of pressure - but it didn't leak and then later did?

I've wondered about a shaft with some runout on the sealing surface - that will flex the seal lip........... and explains a leak, but I've not dedicated much time to figure out why sometimes, not others.

After my trip to Maine yesterday about a 120 mile round trip
20210711_121412.jpg


20210711_121421.jpg
 

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ShadowsPapa

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Mine was leaking so I replaced and upgraded…I was going to do this anyway so now I had an excuse to do so. 🤷🏻‍♂️
The whole shootin' match - the whole assembly, differential - or the right and left axles?
Send me your old! LOL
Seriously, I'd love to get my hands on these to do some checking.
 

calipoontappa

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The whole shootin' match - the whole assembly, differential - or the right and left axles?
Send me your old! LOL
Seriously, I'd love to get my hands on these to do some checking.
As soon as mine had a leak I ordered both left and right. Went with Yukon. Tossed the stock stuff.
 

ZSum73

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Mine was leaking so I replaced and upgraded…I was going to do this anyway so now I had an excuse to do so. 🤷🏻‍♂️
I have 406 miles and I don't do enough serious offroad driving to need upgrades at least right now.
 

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calipoontappa

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I have 406 miles and I don't do enough serious offroad driving to need upgrades at least right now.
I had less than 5k miles and they had to replace the entire engine. 6k and I saw the leak. I don’t take mine off-road but if I ever want to I know I can, besides I have 38s and I like to floor it…the axles were in my build plan anyway, next up are RCVs up front and truss everything.
 

ZSum73

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I had less than 5k miles and they had to replace the entire engine. 6k and I saw the leak. I don’t take mine off-road but if I ever want to I know I can, besides I have 38s and I like to floor it…the axles were in my build plan anyway, next up are RCVs up front and truss everything.
I hope this is my last issue for a while. I hope you have better luck too....its all just insane to me that there are so many issues people have. I traded a 2017 cherokee with 60k never had a single issue. My wife's 2016 Renegade though lots of programming and electrical issues. Idk..I was hoping for more like my cherokee...
 

ZSum73

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At the dealer and they need to keep the truck to take it apart to diagnose the issue. They haven't had one of these axle issues yet and are saying they have to take it apart to figure it out.
 

sdk131

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At the dealer and they need to keep the truck to take it apart to diagnose the issue. They haven't had one of these axle issues yet and are saying they have to take it apart to figure it out.
Well keep us posted if they find anything conclusive...but I am suspecting they will just gues sand replace the axle shaft assembly. I would love for FCA to find the definitive root cause. Mine continues to leak after being replaced once already. I am not going to bother taking it back in for awhile until there are possible signs that they have found the actual cause.
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