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Loose Steering?

futzin'

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SO many former/current Jeep JL/JK owners have expressed concern over their JT steering. I don't get the attitude from some here that there may not be an issue. What it really means is that it isn't an issue for them, and they believe the complaint falls under the general design, aka a Jeep Thing that is supposed to be there. The close mindedness of some makes me shake my head sometimes.

And the thought that there may not be a problem until a recall is issued is wonky. Does he think no one notices a problem or mentions it until there's a recall? Oh, my Pinto blew up. No recall, so I guess it's supposed to be designed that way and I shouldn't even bring it up. Of course, that's an extreme and dated example.
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ShadowsPapa

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SO many former/current Jeep JL/JK owners have expressed concern over their JT steering. I don't get the attitude from some here that there may not be an issue. What it really means is that it isn't an issue for them, and they believe the complaint falls under the general design, aka a Jeep Thing that is supposed to be there. The close mindedness of some makes me shake my head sometimes.

And the thought that there may not be a problem until a recall is issued is wonky. Does he think no one notices a problem or mentions it until there's a recall? Oh, my Pinto blew up. No recall, so I guess it's supposed to be designed that way and I shouldn't even bring it up. Of course, that's an extreme and dated example.
No recall means nothing - especially when Jeep appears to still be in the middle of investigative work - that acknowledge an issue, but are still working on a fix that is a once and for all fix.
One of the things I've been told by professors/teachers and yes, even psych testing, is that I'm good at puzzle solving and pattern recognition. If I looked at a table full of stuff I'd see what it could be or once was while others would see a pile of random stuff, for example.
Early on I saw multiple patterns - which makes this very difficult, because what some described fit - but yet not fully, and it appeared that a few saw something similar and said "me too". That muddies the waters. That's why I insist on specific, examples, exactly what does it take to repeat it, and I ask deeper questions. Early on I believed also there were real problems - steering sector related, and other items not caused by the steering sector itself. That seems to be proving itself.
We have at least 3 forum members who have been told by dealers that there is an issue, they are aware, and/or Jeep is aware, but at this time, no definite solution (well, in theory, but I'm sure Jeep doesn't want to swap parts only to go back in 6 months and do it again)

"A Jeep thing" - is partial myth. Frankly in these days there's no real reason that a solid axle can't perform on the highway similar to IFS, especially at normal speed limit speeds. Mine is proof, as are many other examples just in this forum alone. I am NOT afraid to take my JT up to the limit and beyond. These still have caster, camber, SAI, TooT, scrub angles, all of the thing the IFS has. They are not adjustable like IFS, but still, they exist.
The engineer I refer to has stated that what he's seen is sometimes a track bar issue - not stiff enough. If you had leaf springs they'd hold things nicely in place so the axle could not move laterally - and would not move laterally on bumps and dips. These can- as the body is raised up from the axle, the axle shifts to the side, which impacts the steering because as the axle shifts, now the relationship between the steering knuckles and the pitman arm has changed. So it's going to be different than IFS in that way where the tie rod joints are very closely aligned with the lower control arm pivots - meaning a pavement dip, road dip or bump won't change the relationship of the steering linkage to the wheel. It's nearly a parallelogram.

Anyway, whatever, we have information from more than one member indicating that the dealers are aware and Jeep is apparently aware.
Proof there's an issue with at least SOME that is sector related.
I do not believe all are - but one thing at a time.
 

ShadowsPapa

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It's possible there's actually a design flaw involved that causes these to be difficult if not impossible to maintain the proper settings, clearances, preloads and so on.
Engineering boo-boos exist, they happen, we are not beyond that. Boeing, anyone?
How about the highway not far from me that had to have parts partially knocked down and done over because someone screwed up and the parts wouldn't fit, and another one where they put the bridge together only to find once they got to the middle, it was a Johnny Cash thing - the parts didn't line up - beams removed and sent back to be redone. "all of the holes were gone" - they needed an A-dapter kit.

If everything was perfect out of the box, I'd not have a new tonneau cover on my truck because the first would have fit perfectly. The second one fits nicely.
 

Scrubb84

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Please don’t try to adjust your sb. Once the tech realized the new new sb he installed on mine was actually worse than the original, he tried adjusting the it on the bench and mangled it. The adjustment screw would not move from the nut. That screw is aluminum and seemed to be welded to the nut. Most likely cross threaded from the factory.
 

Slalom

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Please don’t try to adjust your sb. Once the tech realized the new new sb he installed on mine was actually worse than the original, he tried adjusting the it on the bench and mangled it. The adjustment screw would not move from the nut. That screw is aluminum and seemed to be welded to the nut. Most likely cross threaded from the factory.
Thanks for the advice.
 

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Slalom

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Please don’t try to adjust your sb. Once the tech realized the new new sb he installed on mine was actually worse than the original, he tried adjusting the it on the bench and mangled it. The adjustment screw would not move from the nut. That screw is aluminum and seemed to be welded to the nut. Most likely cross threaded from the factory.
So did they order another replacement replacement for yours? Mine is now escalated at Jeep Cares and they are supposed to call me within 24 hours, is that what you had to do?
 

WhatExit?

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My steering was loose with stock tires, I actually had already purchased the lift and 40's before even buying the Gladiator so I could do a one day build so didn't really get a chance to drive it stock but maybe 2 days but it was loose then as well, 40's and lift made it more dangerous but I'm just glad I was able to solve my problem and drive safely now. As my video states its worth a shot, but yes FCA needs to be on top of this ASAP
I'm not calling you out - well, maybe I am. as you're telling the Gladiator world how to "fix loose steering" and you drove your stock Gladiator "maybe 2 days" and you're the guy with a suspension like nothing I've ever heard of or seen before.

I suggest you keep doing what you're doing but spare this forum from advice on anything related to "fixing loose steering" as well as anything related to suspensions
 

Scrubb84

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So did they order another replacement replacement for yours? Mine is now escalated at Jeep Cares and they are supposed to call me within 24 hours, is that what you had to do?
I really hope it doesnt come to it, but i started my lemonlaw claim. Jeep cares contacted me and i explained the situation. They are working with my service manager to figure out what to do. I dont want a new Gladiator, i just want mine to steer correctly. But like i told them, this is my only vehicle and im scared to drive it over 45 especially when it snows, cant tell if im sliding off the road or its just the huge dead spot. My service manager wants to help (one of the good ones), but i think his hands are tied at this point. I dont think any serv dept would want to keep ordering sb’s and spending a day of warranty work each time just to find out its another one of the bad ones out there.
In my opinion this is not hard to figure out. Either bench test the sb before installing it, or swap it out for a known good one from the lot.
 

ShadowsPapa

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I really hope it doesnt come to it, but i started my lemonlaw claim. Jeep cares contacted me and i explained the situation. They are working with my service manager to figure out what to do. I dont want a new Gladiator, i just want mine to steer correctly. But like i told them, this is my only vehicle and im scared to drive it over 45 especially when it snows, cant tell if im sliding off the road or its just the huge dead spot. My service manager wants to help (one of the good ones), but i think his hands are tied at this point. I dont think any serv dept would want to keep ordering sb’s and spending a day of warranty work each time just to find out its another one of the bad ones out there.
In my opinion this is not hard to figure out. Either bench test the sb before installing it, or swap it out for a known good one from the lot.
You are right in that their hands are tied somewhat. They could order parts, and they could swap parts - but it's on them until or unless Jeep/FCA approves the process and parts - the dealer owns it until Jeep takes over.
And how many can do that? They buy the part, they do the labor - unless Jeep has OK'd it then the dealer is stepping into the middle of something they may not get reimbursed for.
Once a star case was opened on my cover and Jeep says "yeah, we got this" the dealer was all over it! Pronto, get it in let's get this fixed.
For them to have done something without Jeep/FCA approval left them smack in the middle - money, time and if that didn't work, then what as Jeep hadn't approved it yet.
I get that - some dealers are great, some have their hands tied, a few are just not cooperative - luckily those seem to be the minority.
 

Factoid

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So are you saying that every time a dealer service department does warranty work, they have to contact FCA for approval? Sounds awfully bureaucratic and time consuming to me.
 

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ShadowsPapa

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So are you saying that every time a dealer service department does warranty work, they have to contact FCA for approval? Sounds awfully bureaucratic and time consuming to me.
No, but there are forms to complete - or there were. I have copies of some of the books and paperwork involved in the 1980s. I was also an authorized repair person for Tecumseh, Briggs and Stratton, Jacobsen in past decades and was authorized to do warranty and other repair work on Compaq and AST computers in the 1990s.
Dealers could do obvious warranty work but to be reimbursed, there were forms to complete. Sometimes you had to return parts, sometimes you kept them until authorized to dispose of them.
I have tons of stuff from AMC and Jeep from the 60s, 70s and 80s, including authorization forms - I know things have changed, but a dealer can't just say "yup, we got this" in all cases. The steering and bed covers are one area.
They had to get authorization to replace the cover in my case - if it was an obvious defect, such as the glass in my wife's grand cherokee driver door - they simply said "we'll order a new one, this will be covered". Likely they filled out the paperwork after the fact knowing it was a no-brainer.

I can't find my other books right now on the topic, but right next to me now is a Jeep "Dealer management manual" called "Warranty Administration, Warranty and policy procedures" from Jeep sales corporation.

Off topic but I opened another book and laughed as I read the title of the TSB - "frame rail cracking caused by frame flexing during severe off-road operation" and it has diagrams of where the frames are cracking! LOL Wow, talk about how the more things change, the more they stay the same.
 

Spyder

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Had my JT at the dealer today and they said that it was within the threshold of the Mopar limits for the steering and there is nothing else they could do at this time. Was told: "If it gets worse or shows itself more then bring it in" Ok so I guess i will assume that if I'm in a wreck that is caused but this issue then its the right time. UUUHHHHHGGGGG this is so aggravating. I did talk to Jeep Wave and have a case number and they said that I can take it to another dealership for a 2nd opinion. the quests continues to fix the steering issues!
 
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Scrubb84

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Had my JT at the dealer today and they said that it was within the threshold of the Mopar limits for the steering and there is nothing else they could do at this time. Was told: "If it gets worse or shows itself more then bring it in" Ok so I guess i will assume that if I'm in a wreck that is caused but this issue then its the right time. UUUHHHHHGGGGG this is so aggravating. I did talk to Jeep Wave and have a case number and they said that I can take it to another dealership for a 2nd opinion. the quests continues to fix the steering issues!
Make an appt specifically to check this. That will at least get them to admit there is a problem. That’s what I did.

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Slalom

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Let's just start out by saying I am very reluctantly posting this for obvious reasons. I am absolutely no expert. After FCA denied me on getting a new steering box and wouldn't give my dealer authorization to make an adjustment I took matters into my own hands. My steering is now fixed. I felt that I had read enough and consulted with enough people that in my case it was the right thing to do. My steering was never bad enough that I felt like I was putting my life or someone else's life in danger. It was just aggravating enough to where I hated driving it and was almost ready to sell it. Been driving Jeeps most of my life but this one sucked for one reason, the steering.
Please don't ask me how I fixed it there are enough threads on that. I will say that I had help from a friend that owns a shop next to where I work but that was mainly for moral support. I will say that the Allen screw is not aluminum, put a magnet on it. Also, at least on mine there was no loctite. The steering now has the slightest bit of play, maybe about an 1/8 of an inch. Probably a good sign it is not too tight. I am completely satisfied.
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