Loose steering-dealers response

[ShadowsPapa]

Well first of all, if you're a mechanic then you know it's not "some random screw". And yes warranty replacement is definitely the first choice until you're told "that's just the way Jeeps are". Do what you can to get the steering box replaced to fix the problem under warranty. I've owned and worked on lot of Jeeps over the years, and this is my 3rd Rubicon. The excessive play is not normal, it's not a Jeep or a Rubicon thing, and it's a brand new vehicle so you don't have worn out joints and end links to consider as a cause. The cause and solution are well known. With a couple small adjustments to remove 90% of the play, you understand exactly where 100% of the problem is and how easy it is to correct. Personally I understand exactly how it all works, and what issues can arise if you over torque a gear mesh. I've had my share of formal automotive training as well.
You can live with the issue if they won't fix it, or you can fix it 100% and accept the risk yourself. I wouldn't recommend making the adjustment if you're not comfortable working on your own vehicles though.
What happens if you fix it and the worse case scenario happens? You can void your warranty on the steering box because the marker has moved. So you enjoy driving it for several years with perfect steering response, and if you torqued it down way too much you can eventually damage the steering box over time. So then you replace it with a new one out of your pocket. Mopar steering box is a $600 part. In my personal humble opinion, I have broken much more expensive parts in shorter time on my Jeeps and got less enjoyment out of them. The Gladiator drives so nice when this is fixed it's simply worth it to me. Maybe not for you, but it is to me.

I get where you are coming from - my thing is I wouldn't suggest "any Jeep owner should do this" -or even can. You get it..... that's evident.

Mine has no play - I compared mine to another person's JT steering sector. We both took hold of the steering column shaft as it enters the sector and took note of the movement before the pitman moved.
Mine - ZERO. As quick as I turned the input side, the pitman moved. There was no lag at all.
The other guy's - he was able to get several degrees of turn before his pitman moved. That's ENGINE OFF so you are dealing with the physical, mechanical parts, not how the hydraulics are impacting things.

This is a case of your thinking likely being the issue - possible defect, yes, but that much play, you take out the excess first, if they are cringing, then welcome them to measure the resistance as it's adjusted. They have the spec. Normally you tighten until you have a specific torque reading on the input side.
If you backed it off 1/4 turn - it's hard to imagine it's too tight.

As far as their marking it - LOL - I am the sort that I'd try to duplicate the factory marks - I've spent money duplicating originality in restorations, including such marks on classic cars - inspection marks, factory lock methods, including how the steering sector was finished and the pitman arm nut secured to the shaft. I spent over $60 getting a stamp made for product code and date code stamping on my restorations, as well as inspection marks. I put the original type paint marks back on the drive shaft of cars I've restored. So if I broke a seal, I'd spend hours trying to duplicate it if at all possible. It would bug me being off.

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[KHam]

Mine has no play - I compared mine to another person's JT steering sector. We both took hold of the steering column shaft as it enters the sector and took note of the movement before the pitman moved.
Mine - ZERO. As quick as I turned the input side, the pitman moved. There was no lag at all.
The other guy's - he was able to get several degrees of turn before his pitman moved. That's ENGINE OFF so you are dealing with the physical, mechanical parts, not how the hydraulics are impacting things.

If it wasn't that I wanted a JT, I might have skipped over it. I traded in a 2019 JL Rubicon for it and my JL did not have the issue. It was solid and tight on steering. This should be the exact same steering box in both. I knew how to fix it so I wasn't too concerned that it was loose on the JT and knew this was a common problem. Not to mention this JT was exactly what I wanted with all the features and color. With the fix to the steering, it is perfect and I'm very happy with it. I'm not too concerned about breaking a $600 part down the road. In my opinion, that is a Jeep thing, especially if you off road and rock climb. I've broken a lot of parts.
That steering box is perfectly capable of zero slop from the factory. It just seems like they have bad QA or they're just not all getting properly adjusted from the factory. It's a crap shoot if you get one well adjusted or one that's not. I'm not sure why there are such wide variances.

 

[TheGreatCO]

Dropped mine off to the dealer this morning. Specifically stating, the steering is very loose at highway speeds. They just called me and the conversation went something like:
Them: "You know you have Fox shocks on your suspension"
Me: "Yes"
Them: "That's why the suspension is so soft"
Me: "The suspension is great, the steering is garbage"
Them: "Well my guy that installs the Fox shocks says it drives like it should"
Me: "Take it on the highway at highway speed and hold the wheel straight for 30 seconds, you'll end up in the ditch"
Them: "Oh, well, we can't do that today"

So, I told you "x happens on the highway" and their response was to test it on local roads. I can see we're off to a great start.

I told them you can turn the wheel with the car parked and watch how the from wheels don't turn.

Hopefully this storm passes quickly and they can get it out on the highway soon.

 

[Hot-Rod]

Papa and Kham what are your thoughts on throwing the Sector Shaft brace in to the mix?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Papa and Kham what are your thoughts on throwing the Sector Shaft brace in to the mix?

IF I was doing hard off-roading, I'd likely put the sector and track bar brace on mine.

The sector shaft should not need a brace, but then when you have all of that force shoving against it in some of the adventures these get used for - I can see it could save some damage. Smack a rock and there's over 5,000 pounds of Jeep hitting that track bar and steering.
Much of the force on the steering should be absorbed and the fact that unless you have super-human arms, that steering wheel can move to take some of the hit. Not so with the track bar - just the small rubber bushings in each end to absorb the hit.
Even tight turns and rough roads shove on the track bar.
I believe with synergy, it's both in one kit.
There's another that's track bar brace only - I have even considered that just because.

That's sort of my thinking aloud on it.................

I don't have steering issues, but also can see beefing some areas up to prevent anticipated forces or damage - especially me as an off-road novice. I'd be like George of the Jungle........ haha.

 

[Shootist]

Papa and Kham what are your thoughts on throwing the Sector Shaft brace in to the mix?

Well, I am not either of those guys but my viewpoint on this is that if you are running a lift and or over 33” tires it is a good idea as I have seen the flex happen which the sector brace is meant to address. In a stock configuration With stock tires I don’t think it is necessary though you may also feel it tighten up the steering a bit since even stock there is a little flex.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Well, I am not either of those guys but my viewpoint on this is that if you are running a lift and or over 33” tires it is a good idea as I have seen the flex happen which the sector brace is meant to address. In a stock configuration With stock tires I don’t think it is necessary though you may also feel it tighten up the steering a bit since even stock there is a little flex.

With a lift you are not pushing laterally - horizontally, you are also pushing down a bit. More pressure/stress on the steering. Not saying not to lift, not at all! Just saying things have changed and so you may want to compensate for the added angle the thing has to push.
Same for the track bar - now it's running more of an angle. Up and down axle movement swings the track bar more left and right so a brace there can't hurt a thing.

 

[KHam]

Papa and Kham what are your thoughts on throwing the Sector Shaft brace in to the mix?

I have the Synergy one on order and I'm definitely going to add it as soon as it arrives. I'm running 37's now and maybe run 40's once these wear out. Someone posted a video of the steering box while turning the tires left and right and there is a surprising amount of deflection. Not a big deal on the street so much but once you start off roading it can become a weak or breakable point. It should also help a little on solidifying your steering feel I would think.

You can see the deflection in the video:

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I have the Synergy one on order and I'm definitely going to add it as soon as it arrives. I'm running 37's now and maybe run 40's once these wear out. Someone posted a video of the steering box while turning the tires left and right and there is a surprising amount of deflection. Not a big deal on the street so much but once you start off roading it can become a weak or breakable point. It should also help a little on solidifying your steering feel I would think.

You can see the deflection in the video:

Yeah, some videos show enough flex I'd be wondering about metal fatigue later down the road - maybe not so bad stock, no or little lift, 33s, etc. but more tire, more lift, more stress.
Even steel can only handle so much.
Here's how a floor cracked both sides behind frame rails from flexing - VERY VERY slight movement of the structure and finally it couldn't handle it any more.

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[Shootist]

The Synergy one that KHam mentioned is definitely the one that I would use if I decide to get one. Looks like it is also just way beefier than the stock track bar mount as well and the bonus is you get bracing for the steering box as well.

 

[5JeepsAz]

I‘s not too often i disagree with you but on this I do but not in its entirety. There is absolutely every reason in the world to test the vehicle you are brining home. I get your point but when you are dropping 40K, 50K, and higher that to me is reason enough. Knowing what you are getting for the money you are spending in my eyes is due diligence. That falls completely on the buyer.

Look this isn’t some Camry, accord, and whatever extremely high quality vehicles there are out there we are talking about. Those vehicle i agree choose the color and throw me the keys and I’ll sign and drive away.

The vehicle we are talking about is a FIRST year model. Not taking it even around the block would be irresponsible on the buyer’s part. Look i special ordered my LE. Doesn’t mean i wasn’t going to give it a whirl before signing on the dotted line. You beat on the test vehicle you don’t plan to buy and you baby the one you plan to bring home. Regardless, if you order different color or features.

My whole point to making a comment was out of curiosity, to identify was the vehicle ‘unsafe’ at point of transaction or did it ‘become’ unsafe later on. Maybe because of modifications, I don’t know but was curious.

Anyway, in my case I wouldn’t gamble on not testing the vehicle I’m actually purchasing prior to bringing home. I do get your point some cases/circumstances you roll with it.

Buyers have to take responsibility on knowing what they are purchasing BEFORE they purchase. Don’t say after you brought a new vehicle home, that is when you discovered there was 6 inches of play in the steering wheel. It wasn’t there when you test drove it? Obviously I’m making that up but you get the point I was trying to make.

Anyway that‘s my two cents or less.

Buttinksi here. So I agree in the times before now. But this whole buyer beware thing is past it's prime. If I'm buying a half computer half Jeep, it simply ain't on me. Period. Corporation needs to say what they sell, sell what they say, and if it's not up to snuff, Corp fixes it. This shit turns into a Rollerball situation in a hurry if we hold one kind of citizen (the alive kind) to a different standard than another kind (the corporate citizen kind). Why? Because what happens when your Jeep decides for you to correct itself, causing a calamity. Who is responsible? You? The builder of the intelligent machine? I say jail time for corporate malfeasance same as for human error, given we will hold someone or some thing accountable. Here's proof. Think of those plane passengers. Were they at fault for buying a ticket on a flying machine? Or were the pilots at fault when their correct input was overridden by a faulty computer killing all souls on board? Two times planes crashed due to computer error. And Corp knew about this and failed to act? I know, apples and oranges. But this is increasingly wrong to me, the idea that personal responsibility is champ like it was in old west days. Not in a technological age. I say this because of the computer interface with steering and shifting, which is dullard as hell to me. My 2c.

 

[HWKIGRL]

Dropped mine off to the dealer this morning. Specifically stating, the steering is very loose at highway speeds. They just called me and the conversation went something like:
Them: "You know you have Fox shocks on your suspension"
Me: "Yes"
Them: "That's why the suspension is so soft"
Me: "The suspension is great, the steering is garbage"
Them: "Well my guy that installs the Fox shocks says it drives like it should"
Me: "Take it on the highway at highway speed and hold the wheel straight for 30 seconds, you'll end up in the ditch"
Them: "Oh, well, we can't do that today"

So, I told you "x happens on the highway" and their response was to test it on local roads. I can see we're off to a great start.

I told them you can turn the wheel with the car parked and watch how the from wheels don't turn.

Hopefully this storm passes quickly and they can get it out on the highway soon.

My fingers are crossed for you, hopefully after the storm they’ll do the right thing! Please keep us updated, this is essentially what my dealer did as well, street driving around a residential/business block, instead of highway driving at speeds.

 

[TheGreatCO]

My fingers are crossed for you, hopefully after the storm they’ll do the right thing! Please keep us updated, this is essentially what my dealer did as well, street driving around a residential/business block, instead of highway driving at speeds.

Picked it up this morning. The dealer says "my lift guy says that's how it should drive". They refused to even test the play in the steering box by turning the wheel and watching the pitman arm. If you're looking for a lift on your Jeep, I suggest you avoid Teterboro Jeep.

 

[HWKIGRL]

Picked it up this morning. The dealer says "my lift guy says that's how it should drive". They refused to even test the play in the steering box by turning the wheel and watching the pitman arm. If you're looking for a lift on your Jeep, I suggest you avoid Teterboro Jeep.

I’m sorry! It’s really unbelievable that they won’t even “try” to fix the issue. I think the problem is so many people willing to shrug it off as “a Jeep thing” when it’s not affecting them, or even when it does.

 

[Casique]

This issue is keeping me from ordering a Mojave! I have now test driven three JTs with the same loose steering issue. An Overland, Rubi, and Mojave, all had very loose steering on the highway. Keep hoping I'll test drive one that does not have the issue, so I can buy it.

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