M/T Gladiator vs M/T Tacoma

[jalbrecht55]

I'm back in the market a for 4x4 pickup with a manual trans. I'm not specifically looking for a Jeep or a convertible, nor to run big tires or do hard trails. I have a 2006 LJR for that and even then I'm not into the hard trails thing anymore. I just want a good simple compact pickup truck with a manual trans.

Today I got the chance to drive both a Gladiator and Tacoma back to back. (I was hoping to find a M/T frontier as well but there just aren't any nearby.) I have scoured the web for a comparison of the two and not found one, so I thought I'd share the experience. I know this will be quite long. If you want a book, read on. If not, don't.

The JT I tried was a Sport S with added hard top, tow, aux and heated seats/wheel. Base 5" screen. The Tacoma I happened to drive was a loaded Sport with leather seats/etc.

JT window sticker
https://www.chrysler.com/hostd/windowsticker/getWindowStickerPdf.do?vin=1C6HJTAG3LL153186

To be continued

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[jalbrecht55]

Interior/first impressions
It was raining lightly and when I opened the door, water drip/drained directly onto the floor, just like in my 2006 LJR. Ah yes this is a Jeep.

I found the JT to be upright and quite a bit more spacious front and back than the Tacoma. The sight lines also felt better. The JT is more boxy and as a result its easier to tell where the edges and corners are. Overall both feel "good" but the JT felt a little bit fresher and roomier, more comfortable and has a better view out.

The Tacoma this year just added power seats (height adjustable) for the first time in Toyota history. Being that I'm a short guy (so I can crank the seat up to the top) this is a game changer on the Tacoma and makes it considerably more comfortable to sit in. (More like a regular car and less like a kayak). But even so the Gladiator is more comfortable.

This JT had the 5" screen which actually impressed me. I have the 8.4 in my Jeep Grand Cherokee and it is nicer and looks better but I was impressed with how functional the 5" is, offering reverse camera (while driving forward--key for parking in my tight garage) and zoom and dynamic lines. It also has many customization features such as the ability to turn the hill hold on/off, auto locks on/off, etc.

I also found that I liked the "manual" HVAC controls, better than the auto HVAC the Tacoma I drove had. The 5" screen also means this JT had the black and white driver info center in the cluster which was fine. It looked and worked fine. BTW I'm getting older and have bifocals now so screens are a challenge but I could still read and see the 5" just fine.

(To be continued)

 

[jalbrecht55]

Driving impressions - JT

The manual in the JT is decent. I found the shift action slightly rubbery and slightly crunchy like shifting through rubbery chunks if that makes sense. It wasn't terrible but felt a lot like our old M/T Toyota Camry. (The JT M/T is a cable shift setup, also like our old Camry).

Many have commented on how smooth these are to shift--and yes the engagement/synchros are smooth but the action of moving the shifter is not super smooth. A 2018 JL I drove a few years ago was much notchier feeling, I don't recall the rubbery feeling there. I'm comparing this to the shifter in the Tacoma (smooth like butter in all regards) and the shifter in my 2006 LJR (smoother action when parked, but the synchros are not as smooth when driving).

I did not like the shape of the knob and also wish the shifter was a little closer to the driver seat. I did however like the reverse location and lockout. I thought it worked great and prefer it to the far right and back that I have on the six speed on my 2006 LJR.

The motor is quiet and smooth and very "soft" down low, not much stall resistance. The clutch is so light you almost wonder if the pedal is hooked up. I found it pretty easy to drive but I did stall it once at a light.

I tried putting it in first and riding the brakes to check the stall resistance. You can stall it with the brakes no problem, but it did OK you can pull it down to zero RPM without it bucking. I was able to take off in 1st and 2nd gear with no gas input. I braked it down to just below idle in both first and second and let it go and it was smooth, no hopping and bucking as some have experienced.

I put it in low range (which was actually pretty hard to get it to go in) and tried the same. I could still stall in it low range/ first with the brake but it was more stall resistant and very smooth feeling.

I played with the hill hold and did not find it invasive. If on a hill you stop and let go of the brake about 2-3 seconds later it rolls back. If you try to drive forward it impedes you (barely) and then pulls ahead just fine. No issue.

I also played with ESS. ESS only activates when you put the trans in neutral and let go of the clutch. As soon as you push in the clutch it starts and is running before the pedal hits the floormat.

I found this to drive "good" on the road. It accelerates fine, it's smooth, the engine is quiet, it shifts fine, it works. I didn't find it particularly exciting but it does good. I found at 60mph 5th gear is all you need. It would hold and pull 6th but seemed happier in 5th. I honestly think a set of 33" tires and 4.88 gears would be the sweet spot. I have a steep road by our house, 15% grade for 1/4 mile and 10% grade for the top 1/4 mile. I found on the lower half I was in 3rd at around 45mph, kinda wanted to shift (it sounded ready) and I went to 4th and it bogged a bit. So as others have found you do need to rev it a bit to hold speed on hills.

Steering Wander: I found this JT does wander a bit more than the Tacoma or my 2006 LJR on 35's. I did not think it was bad. It feels like it could use a little more caster to me, but it wasn't tiring to drive on the highway. Tires were set at 39psi. The last 2018 JL I drove was actually tiring to drive, after 10 minutes I did not want to drive it anymore. I did not feel that way here.

Other: This one had some wind whisping noises from the freedom panels. It was not loud but it was ever present. The salesman owns a wrangler and thought the whisping was abnormal here. Tops seemed to be installed correctly. On the same stretch of road at 60mph I saw 71dB on my iphone vs 69/70dB on with my JGC.

(To be continued)

 

[jalbrecht55]

Tacoma:
The Tacoma's motor felt very similar to the 3.6 in the JT to me. It also is very "soft" feeling at the bottom end. It also was similarly smooth. It exhibited similar stall resistance. It may pull a little harder mid RPM range (the taco has a little torque jump around 4k) but honestly, I'd have a hard time telling a difference between the two motors in a blind taste test.

The transmission in the Toyota definitely had a smoother shift feel. It shifted very smoothly and very nicely. I did not like the knob, it's just a weird shape. This one had the same shift pattern as the JT but no lockout ring on reverse just a stiff spring to push through. Honestly I prefer the lockout ring, as you lift up a nice light ring and then it shifts lightly compared to the Tacoma where you have to push pretty hard to the left.

The clutch on the Tacoma is OK. Where the JT is oddly light, the Toyota is "normal" but "thick". It feels like the hydraulics are filled with 90W gear oil or it's 40 below zero. I prefer the feel of the JT.

The Toyota gearing felt a little better balance to me. I felt like 6th was more usable. The Toyota also has a taller 1st which is a negative, but did not feel that different in person. Reverse is quite tall feeling in the Toyota.

This Toyota, had the radar cruise control (all of them do now) and I found it useful with the M/T. There were times where you really should take control and downshift, but it worked fine.

Overall I'm kinda torn, unsure which I like better. I think the Tacoma feels more "regular carlike" (no wind whisping noises) with less steering correction needed). It felt like there was more tire/road noise on the Toyota vs just more "everything noise" on the JT but the Toyota also showed the same 71dB on my phone.

The Toyota is cheaper, if you compared like optioned vehicles I'm seeing about $8-9k difference between the two. (Assuming 6-7% off invoice on the Jeep and 500 below invoice pricing on the Tacoma).

Obviously if you want a convertible the JT is the one. If you already have a wrangler as I do, the choice is not so clear. If the convertable part isn't a requirement and you aren't planning to run out and throw 37's on it, then I think the Toyota makes a little more sense - less cost, theoretical Toyota reliability, but a lot of it hinges on if the Toyota is actually comfortable for you or not. I do not think it fits as many body types as the gladiator. All in all, I'm not sure which one I prefer.

 

[WXman]

Also, the Tacoma with the manual trans only has 2,900 lbs. of towing capacity, per Toyota's own website. So if you need to tow anything, I'd shop elsewhere.

 

[jalbrecht55]

Fairly certain the Tacoma v6 m/t is rated for 6400lb towing. 3500lb with the 4cyl

Not sure if this link will work.

https://www.toyota.com/tacoma/features/towing/7544/7545/7582

 

[WXman]

Post #11

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/...-towing-capacity-from-jeep.15779/#post-248014

Again, from Toyota's own website.

 

[jalbrecht55]

Not sure what to say on the tow rating. Current website (linked above) shows 6400lb as does the sales brochure. The owners manual is a little less clear as it does show a configurations of 6400 and 6000lb but categorizes it by engine and “certification model code” and not by transmission so not sure there

(Page 35)

https://www.toyota.com/content/ebrochure/2020/tacoma_ebrochure.pdf#page535

(page 188)

https://www.toyota.com/t3Portal/document/om-s/OM04025U/pdf/OM04025U.pdf#page187

Anyway I’ve got a V8 grand that will tow more than either :D

 

[basicGlad]

@jalbrecht55 hey I did similar. Test drove the Gladiator, then tacoma, then gladiator again. The gladiator has WAY more interior room, and WAY better visibility. Plus I liked the basic uconnect more than the TRD Sport's infotainment. the basic uconnect is all one button operation, simple. Keeps you focused on driving. Tacoma infotainment is like trying to use a computer while driving. Gladiator had a dampened tail gait, locking tailgate... Tacoma had a power rear window... but Gladiator I can just take my back wall off.

Only two things I liked on the Tacoma were the shifter and clutch pedal. Seating position was terrible. I think the Tacoma's shifter feels more notchy (better) and the clutch pedal had good feel. The gladiator's clutch is too light. But I really disliked no lockout on reverse in the Tacotruck. I kept putting the tacoma into reverse when I wanted first.

I don't need to tow more than 3,000 maybe 4,000 so I got a gladiator with 1600 payload... tacoma only had 1100... but forget about putting adults in the back of your tacoma.

I only drove the tacoma once, but the live front axel jeep was a bigger plus to me than the better steering in the Tacoma.

I drive 2,000 - 3,000 miles per year and I have another car. It will take me 33 - 50 years to put 100,000 on the JT. I don't need Toyota reliability.

 

[jalbrecht55]

The payload ratings on the JT is quite confusing to me. I saw how yours has 6250GVWR/1600lb by getting a sport-s without towing. Such an odd thing that adding the tow package or removing options (from “S” to base) drops it down to approx 5800/1200lb. I’d forgotten to look at that on the one I drove to see if it was consistent with this table.

Personally I’d want the tow package. I tow light stuff and use the receiver for accessories quite a bit. It’s nice having the factory wiring in place and the larger alternator and (likely) higher watt cooling fan seems like a good thing.

Did you ever find out why only the sport S non tow gets the 1600lb rating?

 

[lrtexasman]

Not sure what to say on the tow rating. Current website (linked above) shows 6400lb as does the sales brochure. The owners manual is a little less clear as it does show a configurations of 6400 and 6000lb but categorizes it by engine and “certification model code” and not by transmission so not sure there

(Page 35)

https://www.toyota.com/content/ebrochure/2020/tacoma_ebrochure.pdf#page535

(page 188)

https://www.toyota.com/t3Portal/document/om-s/OM04025U/pdf/OM04025U.pdf#page187

Anyway I’ve got a V8 grand that will tow more than either :D

You can look inside the front door frame to confirm.

 

[giskard]

The payload ratings on the JT is quite confusing to me. I saw how yours has 6250GVWR/1600lb by getting a sport-s without towing. Such an odd thing that adding the tow package or removing options (from “S” to base) drops it down to approx 5800/1200lb. I’d forgotten to look at that on the one I drove to see if it was consistent with this table.

Personally I’d want the tow package. I tow light stuff and use the receiver for accessories quite a bit. It’s nice having the factory wiring in place and the larger alternator and (likely) higher watt cooling fan seems like a good thing.

Did you ever find out why only the sport S non tow gets the 1600lb rating?

I don't know why the Sport S with no tow package is special, but I sure would have liked the option for the 6250 lb GVWR in a manual Sport S with regular tow. This was one of the big things that pushed me toward the Rubicon. And I agree it is very odd that they would reduce GVWR when adding a tow package.

One thing to note is that every Gladiator (even those without any kind of tow package) comes with trailer wiring. This includes both a 4 pin and a 7 pin socket on the back. The tow packages do also come with a beefier alternator and stronger fan, but at least the wiring is there. The stock bumper includes a hole that a tow ball can be installed into for class 2 towing.

 

[basicGlad]

I was told manual transmission sport s w/o tow package has different springs than with tow package and the MT base sport, so there is one configuration you can get the max payload in the Manual.

Why the base sport cannot get max payload? Idk so you pay more. But there are different springs for a better ride towing or leaving payload.

If you're getting an auto transmission I think you get both with max tow.

-------------------------------------
Since I have no tow I got aux switches to get both the better amp and battery.

 

[jrf]

I think the Frontier would be worth checking out. Good drivetrain and better seating than the Toyota, and it should be less $$$ for similarly equipped.

Lots of reasons for the Gladiator for me...but if I was you...it's a pretty large $ premium for the Gladiator if you don't need/want the extras it gives.

 

[basicGlad]

I think the Frontier would be worth checking out.

Nissan? I think I saw the upcoming new Titian. V8 I think and the engine+exhaust sounded amazing.

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