New 2024 grill insert experiment

[ShadowsPapa]

Blower fans. We used to do it all the time, especially for air-cooled motorcycles.

That's about the only way - blow 65 mph into the front of the truck.

Since these don't run hot in normal driving, You'd have to emulate the load of towing in a headwind.
There won't be any benefit to cooling one of these on a normal highway drive. So you need the wind, the load of towing. You'd need to make a stock system run hotter than normal, swap grills, and make another run.

We're not trying to find if these will cool better on the highway because there's no problem on the highway. It would require loading the engine about the same way a headwind while towing would load it

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[Minty JL]

Pretty typical of numbers I see driving on the highway on a typical day.

But I was off road for the week in the sand, so the cooling is pretty effective and stabile, but cooler is always better

 

[ShadowsPapa]

But I was off road for the week in the sand, so the cooling is pretty effective and stabile, but cooler is always better

The cooling is perfect on these - unloaded. Even loaded within their towing limits they stay cool.
195-212? That's really cool There's no need at all to drop the coolant temperatures if that's the warmest you saw. I'd be fine even at 220.
Cooler isn't always better.
205 to 215 are among the ideal temperatures for getting the most power out of gas.

 

[Minty JL]

The cooling is perfect on these - unloaded. Even loaded within their towing limits they stay cool.
195-212? That's really cool There's no need at all to drop the coolant temperatures if that's the warmest you saw. I'd be fine even at 220.
Cooler isn't always better.
205 to 215 are among the ideal temperatures for getting the most power out of gas.

Coming from a GM background I had to adjust my numbers. My truck before this was a 2010 Tahoe PPV (2wd) that I built 5.3 H/C/I/E, fuel system, 6L80 w/a 3200 billet stall converter and dual trans coolers in series with 3.73s

Coolant temp 175-190 max
Trans temps 131-160 (avg), would go up to 175* doing burn outs, digs and hoodrat shit LOL
Oil temps never above 180*

Yes, I know a completely different platform.... I got that.

 

[sharpsicle]

That's about the only way - blow 65 mph into the front of the truck.

Since these don't run hot in normal driving, You'd have to emulate the load of towing in a headwind.
There won't be any benefit to cooling one of these on a normal highway drive. So you need the wind, the load of towing. You'd need to make a stock system run hotter than normal, swap grills, and make another run.

We're not trying to find if these will cool better on the highway because there's no problem on the highway. It would require loading the engine about the same way a headwind while towing would load it

You can add resistance to a dyno to increase stress on the engine. It’s all there, everything you need to do controlled tests. It’s one of the reasons why they exist, not just to pump out hp and tq numbers.

 

[Gren71]

You can add resistance to a dyno to increase stress on the engine. It’s all there, everything you need to do controlled tests. It’s one of the reasons why they exist, not just to pump out hp and tq numbers.

If you’re willing to fund a dyno rental im in for it haha aftet the $450ish for the grille, paint to make the grille bearable to look at while testing, the $200ish ill be spending for the pressure testing equipment, and the time, im in this for a good bit already!

Side note: im planing to do my best to paint the grille a nice matte black. That way it is still re paintable easily if I decide to sell it when this is all said and done.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

You can add resistance to a dyno to increase stress on the engine. It’s all there, everything you need to do controlled tests. It’s one of the reasons why they exist, not just to pump out hp and tq numbers.

Right - and it doesn't take much to figure out what sort of output is needed to match towing. (or just max it out) JSCAN and others will show torque.

Yeah, have the dyno sheets on my car after all of these years............ not great compared to the HP and torque from today's engines, but really good considering it's more than 1 HP/cid

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Coming from a GM background I had to adjust my numbers. My truck before this was a 2010 Tahoe PPV (2wd) that I built 5.3 H/C/I/E, fuel system, 6L80 w/a 3200 billet stall converter and dual trans coolers in series with 3.73s

Coolant temp 175-190 max
Trans temps 131-160 (avg), would go up to 175* doing burn outs, digs and hoodrat shit LOL
Oil temps never above 180*

Yes, I know a completely different platform.... I got that.

That's COLD. For gas you need to get the temps up or your engine will have a short life.
I've always run at least a 180 stat if not a 190 to set my minimums at that 180 or 190, depending on the vehicle.
I've got a 190 in my 73's 360 with a 2500 stall converter

 

[Minty JL]

That's COLD. For gas you need to get the temps up or your engine will have a short life.
I've always run at least a 180 stat if not a 190 to set my minimums at that 180 or 190, depending on the vehicle.
I've got a 190 in my 73's 360 with a 2500 stall converter

It was fully tuned PCM and TCM at LMP here in Maryland; Alec is the LSx/LTx master with tuning.

 

[JarHeadLV]

I think the only way we are going to find out WHY Jeep changed the grill is this - does anyone here know anyone at Jeep? Or get to someone to find out the answer of the grill. Maybe Jeep made the change for better performance (they would have the means to do testing, unlike us) and maybe they changed the grill just for a "change" in the look and easier access to the winch.

 

[Wolf Island Diver]

I think the only way we are going to find out WHY Jeep changed the grill is this - does anyone here know anyone at Jeep? Or get to someone to find out the answer of the grill. Maybe Jeep made the change for better performance (they would have the means to do testing, unlike us) and maybe they changed the grill just for a "change" in the look and easier access to the winch.

We already know why. Jeep has stated it. They moved the grill up so that it wouldn’t be partially covered by the factory winch option for both aesthetic and air flow reasons. Actually having a winch as a factory option rather than just a winch-ready bumper shifts the burden of liability to the OEM. This is why they did all sorts of testing to ensure that it still worked with the safety systems, etc. It also meant that it couldn’t compromise cooling and it needed to look good.

 

[JarHeadLV]

We already know why. Jeep has stated it. They moved the grill up so that it wouldn’t be partially covered by the factory winch option for both aesthetic and air flow reasons. Actually having a winch as a factory option rather than just a winch-ready bumper shifts the burden of liability to the OEM. This is why they did all sorts of testing to ensure that it still worked with the safety systems, etc. It also meant that it couldn’t compromise cooling and it needed to look good.

I didn't know that. Good to know. But still I guess for a non 2024 truck, the question still remains if the grill helps a 2023 or earlier truck thats been modified with winch and front bumper.

so, since I have aftermarket bumber and winch, they are partially blocking my grill, I am guessing the new (higher) grill may have better airflow over the current one because it won't be blocked as much. I havent had my truck overheat at all, but I live in Vegas and it gets hot.

 

[Wolf Island Diver]

I didn't know that. Good to know. But still I guess for a non 2024 truck, the question still remains if the grill helps a 2023 or earlier truck thats been modified with winch and front bumper.

so, since I have aftermarket bumber and winch, they are partially blocking my grill, I am guessing the new (higher) grill may have better airflow over the current one because it won't be blocked as much. I havent had my truck overheat at all, but I live in Vegas and it gets hot.

The theory is that it will improve airflow on older vehicles but I’m not sure anyone has quantitated that, e.g., higher CFM. People have observed lower temps on their vehicles. To some the higher grill may look better with a winch but I don’t think most people ever gave it much thought. One thing I like is that the 24’ grill will probably catch less debris and/or be easier to clean out than the older design. On my truck it’s hard to get to the bottom of the grill because of the winch.

 

[JarHeadLV]

The theory is that it will improve airflow on older vehicles but I’m not sure anyone has quantitated that, e.g., higher CFM. People have observed lower temps on their vehicles. To some the higher grill may look better with a winch but I don’t think most people ever gave it much thought. One thing I like is that the 24’ grill will probably catch less debris and/or be easier to clean out than the older design. On my truck it’s hard to get to the bottom of the grill because of the winch.

Good points. I was just looking at my grill on my truck, then brought up a picture of the new grill and compared. The new grill (to me) is more aesthetically pleasing to my eye. Comparing the 2, the older grill, like on my truck is alot "flatter" or "monotone" looking if you will than the contours of the new grill.

Now I gotta decide if I'm gonna order a new grill in black or stingrey (truck is stingrey)and if black, matte or glossy. Can this decision get any harder?? fuck balls

 

[ShadowsPapa]

When you remove the filler strip from the tops of the frame rails (the strip between bumper and grill) you start the process of reducing efficiency. Add a winch that sticks above the top of the bumper - you divert air. Right away you've reduced cooling.

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