New Bronco! Hard Top Issues ...

[cuellar13]

Well said.

If the Bronco gets the kinks out (and they will), and Toyota magically starts making the FJ Cruiser again I think you'll see a step up in quality and service. The Bronco looks pretty similar to the FJ to me.

I went on Ford's site top build a Bronco to see the options and prices but never got past selecting the trim level. I was fairly confused as to what the differences where.

I totally agree about the similar looks of the FJ and Bronco and like 'em both. Before I bought my JKU, I searched far and wide for an FJ that was reasonably priced, just never found one.

I also agree about the online order experience; the site wasn't as clear as I would've liked (in terms of model comparison). Fortunately for us, my wife researched well ahead of time and knew exactly what color, trim, etc. that she wanted, so it was a breeze.

Sponsored

 

[869 KPH]

I went on Ford's site top build a Bronco to see the options and prices but never got past selecting the trim level. I was fairly confused as to what the differences where.

Same, I still really haven't caught on. I used to know but it flew out of my head again.

 

[mike921921]

Aren't their parts swappable with Toyoda FJ?

 

[Aonarch]

I avoid any first year vehicle, but especially a clean sheet design like the Bronco. Throw in the pandemic, supply chain woes, chip shortage, labor shortage, no thank you!

 

[jjs3845]

Aren't their parts swappable with Toyoda FJ?

Ya know that top looks close.

I wanted an FJ which is why I have a Jeep if that makes sense. They stopped making them I think 2014ish, and they're still selling for sticker or over with all those miles on them! It was more economical to buy a brand new Jeep for that. I always had Toyotas and never had trouble which is why I wanted an FJ. But Toyota really needs to update their interior. I've had 2 Tundras and a Tacoma and swear my first Tundra (2010) and my Tacoma (2021) had really similar interior.

 

[MPMB]

Well said.

If the Bronco gets the kinks out (and they will), and Toyota magically starts making the FJ Cruiser again I think you'll see a step up in quality and service. The Bronco looks pretty similar to the FJ to me.

I went on Ford's site top build a Bronco to see the options and prices but never got past selecting the trim level. I was fairly confused as to what the differences where.

well, there's one for people who just want a Bronco, then there's one for those that do a little forest service road driving, then there's one for the beach, then there's a mall crawler version, then a serious off-road version, then you can get a package that ups all the ability.

 

[dcmdon]

I'd say the Gladiator needs 50-75 more hp to make people feel satisfied. The 5.7L makes 395hp and still runs 15/21 mpg numbers in a heavy truck. Gladiator is 5100#, and a crew cab 1500 Ram V8 sits around 7000#.

They can de-tune the 5.7L so it'd make 350hp/400tq, which would increase gas mileage. Put it in a lighter truck (aerodynamics might be a push because of the JT's size vs. a 1500) and mpgs won't be as bad as you think. It'd make even more mpgs if they added the cylinder turn-off feature (I don't know if FCA uses that tech or not).

Or just put the 4xe4 in it and be done with it. The install is already engineered. More power, much more torque and lower fuel expenses .

Notice I didn't say anything about saving the planet? I really don't care. I just want a truck that can get out of its own way and if I can save gas in the process, then that's great. 4xe Wranglers are doing 0-60 in 6.0 seconds. That's fast. And with federal subsidies, its a free upgrade over the 3.6. Its really a no-brainer if you can get one.

 

[MPMB]

Or just put the 4xe4 in it and be done with it. The install is already engineered. More power, much more torque and lower fuel expenses .

Notice I didn't say anything about saving the planet? I really don't care. I just want a truck that can get out of its own way and if I can save gas in the process, then that's great. 4xe Wranglers are doing 0-60 in 6.0 seconds. That's fast. And with federal subsidies, its a free upgrade over the 3.6. Its really a no-brainer if you can get one.

The 4xe is a 2.0t, so for runabout usage, I'm sure it's fine in a JT. I'd like to see some info on how well the hybrid will do towing 5-6000# over multiple passes and 10hr drive times.

The added towing capacity of the JT over the JL was (is) a big selling point. If a hybrid can't do that, what's the point? Much easier to drop in a 5.7l until the charging infrastructure is in place and/or electric power can do it for sustained distances.

Our vacation drives are usually at least 8 hours, over 3 passes. And where we camp, there's not electricity always available, nor convenient solar access. So hybrids won't really work for us.

Oh sure, we could buy a generator and run it to charge the system, but that kinda defeats the purpose.

 

[dcmdon]

The 4xe is a 2.0t, so for runabout usage, I'm sure it's fine in a JT. I'd like to see some info on how well the hybrid will do towing 5-6000# over multiple passes and 10hr drive times.

The added towing capacity of the JT over the JL was (is) a big selling point. If a hybrid can't do that, what's the point? Much easier to drop in a 5.7l until the charging infrastructure is in place and/or electric power can do it for sustained distances.

You aren't thinking things through completely.

"Runabout usage" there are 2 liter engines that make 325 hp and 350 ft lbs of torque!!!.

Plus you are ignoring the 140 hp electric motor that is in between the engine and transmission and the 40 hp motor/generator that is external to the engine.

Again, the total system makes more power and torque than you could reasonably expect from a 5.7 V8. Don't forget that electric motors make 100% torque at zero RPM.

I agree that one of the big selling points of the JT over the JL is. the towing. So we will have to see on that. All we know now is that the 4xe JL tows as much as any other JL.

Our vacation drives are usually at least 8 hours, over 3 passes. And where we camp, there's not electricity always available, nor convenient solar access. So hybrids won't really work for us.

Your comment here suggests that you don't actually know how hybrids work.

You don't need to plug them in. Run in normal hybrid mode, the battery will charge when you coast or brake and discharge when you ask more of the gas engine than it can give on its own.

Its 100% transparent to the user. Its just a more powerful engine as far as you know. On the highway, every time you lift to adjust for the car in front of you, the battery charges.

Oh sure, we could buy a generator and run it to charge the system, but that kinda defeats the purpose.

Again, your comment suggests that you don't really understand how a hybrid works. Your gas engine is the generator.

Lets run through the use case you mentioned. A long trip. In that case you would use normal hybrid mode. As opposed to all electric mode.

You charge the car overnight, if you want. Though its not necessary.

As you start driving, if the gas engine needs help, the electric will assist and provide power. The battery will discharge in this circumstance.

As you lift off the gas in normal driving or step on the brake, the first part of the brake travel is actually pulling in the motors to act as generators to turn your motion (kinetic energy) into electrical energy that is used to charge the battery.

The electronics manage the recharging and discharging based on your need and how much charge is left in the battery.

You come to your first big grade, the electric motor assists the 2 liter up to total system power of 375hp. If on that long grade, the battery becomes too depleted to help, then power will be reduced too just the power of the 2.0 Turbo. This is HIGHLY unlikely because of the battery is large enough to power the electric motor with 60 hp and massive torque for about 25 minutes.

This same 2.0T in the JL makes 268 hp and 295 ft-lbs of torque. Slightly less HP and a bit more torque than the 3.6.

So what's all this mean? It means that in anything other than the most extreme use case. (Towing up a grade for >25 minutes at full throttle) this system will provide rated power and will generally be a beast as far as power and torque is concerned.

All you have to do is just treat it like any other car with any other powertrain.

 

[MPMB]

You aren't thinking things through completely.

"Runabout usage" there are 2 liter engines that make 325 hp and 350 ft lbs of torque!!!.

Plus you are ignoring the 140 hp electric motor that is in between the engine and transmission and the 40 hp motor/generator that is external to the engine.

Again, the total system makes more power and torque than you could reasonably expect from a 5.7 V8. Don't forget that electric motors make 100% torque at zero RPM.

I agree that one of the big selling points of the JT over the JL is. the towing. So we will have to see on that. All we know now is that the 4xe JL tows as much as any other JL.



Your comment here suggests that you don't actually know how hybrids work.

You don't need to plug them in. Run in normal hybrid mode, the battery will charge when you coast or brake and discharge when you ask more of the gas engine than it can give on its own.

Its 100% transparent to the user. Its just a more powerful engine as far as you know. On the highway, every time you lift to adjust for the car in front of you, the battery charges.



Again, your comment suggests that you don't really understand how a hybrid works. Your gas engine is the generator.

Lets run through the use case you mentioned. A long trip. In that case you would use normal hybrid mode. As opposed to all electric mode.

You charge the car overnight, if you want. Though its not necessary.

As you start driving, if the gas engine needs help, the electric will assist and provide power. The battery will discharge in this circumstance.

As you lift off the gas in normal driving or step on the brake, the first part of the brake travel is actually pulling in the motors to act as generators to turn your motion (kinetic energy) into electrical energy that is used to charge the battery.

The electronics manage the recharging and discharging based on your need and how much charge is left in the battery.

You come to your first big grade, the electric motor assists the 2 liter up to total system power of 375hp. If on that long grade, the battery becomes too depleted to help, then power will be reduced too just the power of the 2.0 Turbo. This is HIGHLY unlikely because of the battery is large enough to power the electric motor with 60 hp and massive torque for about 25 minutes.

This same 2.0T in the JL makes 268 hp and 295 ft-lbs of torque. Slightly less HP and a bit more torque than the 3.6.

So what's all this mean? It means that in anything other than the most extreme use case. (Towing up a grade for >25 minutes at full throttle) this system will provide rated power and will generally be a beast as far as power and torque is concerned.

All you have to do is just treat it like any other car with any other powertrain.

That's true, I don't fully understand how hybrids work. Manufacturers do a poor job of communicating this upfront.

Reading the info on Jeep.com/4xe, it talks about a high-speed charger option, so it'll charge in 2hrs instead of 12. Engine prioritization to preserve battery life. Regenerative braking.

Jeep's building charging stations at trailheads.

All this information does is reinforce the notion that the batteries must be charged. Maybe not every day, but at some point they will have to be charged.

There's nothing that says the engine and/or braking will charge the battery on the road to full capacity.

Jeep even calls it the first plug-in hybrid electric vehicle.

I'm going off what I learned in high school science classes - you can never burn energy to make the same amount or more energy.

As a baseline, the Tesla Model X can tow 5000#. And in one instance (the first one I skimmed) the owners found out that their 3800# R-Pod trailer knocked at least 45% of their range. So instead of nearly 300 miles of range, it was averaging 200 miles. With 8-10 hour charge times, that's a ridiculous platform for working people vacations.

And that is what I think of when I think of hybrids that have a plug.

 

[869 KPH]

That's true, I don't fully understand how hybrids work. Manufacturers do a poor job of communicating this upfront.

Reading the info on Jeep.com/4xe, it talks about a high-speed charger option, so it'll charge in 2hrs instead of 12. Engine prioritization to preserve battery life. Regenerative braking.

Jeep's building charging stations at trailheads.

All this information does is reinforce the notion that the batteries must be charged. Maybe not every day, but at some point they will have to be charged.

There's nothing that says the engine and/or braking will charge the battery on the road to full capacity.

Jeep even calls it the first plug-in hybrid electric vehicle.

I'm going off what I learned in high school science classes - you can never burn energy to make the same amount or more energy.

As a baseline, the Tesla Model X can tow 5000#. And in one instance (the first one I skimmed) the owners found out that their 3800# R-Pod trailer knocked at least 45% of their range. So instead of nearly 300 miles of range, it was averaging 200 miles. With 8-10 hour charge times, that's a ridiculous platform for working people vacations.

And that is what I think of when I think of hybrids that have a plug.

Yeah the marketing is bad sometimes. But you could own the 4xE, decide to never plug it in, and still mostly reap the benefits. Regenerative braking is a great technology.

 

[dcmdon]

That's true, I don't fully understand how hybrids work. Manufacturers do a poor job of communicating this upfront.

Reading the info on Jeep.com/4xe, it talks about a high-speed charger option, so it'll charge in 2hrs instead of 12. Engine prioritization to preserve battery life. Regenerative braking.

Jeep's building charging stations at trailheads.

All this information does is reinforce the notion that the batteries must be charged. Maybe not every day, but at some point they will have to be charged.

There's nothing that says the engine and/or braking will charge the battery on the road to full capacity.

Jeep even calls it the first plug-in hybrid electric vehicle.

I'm going off what I learned in high school science classes - you can never burn energy to make the same amount or more energy.

As a baseline, the Tesla Model X can tow 5000#. And in one instance (the first one I skimmed) the owners found out that their 3800# R-Pod trailer knocked at least 45% of their range. So instead of nearly 300 miles of range, it was averaging 200 miles. With 8-10 hour charge times, that's a ridiculous platform for working people vacations.

And that is what I think of when I think of hybrids that have a plug.

So here is the reality.

You never need to charge your hybrid. You can just drive it in hybrid mode. The battery will seamlessly charge when you brake and coast.

It will seamlessly kick in to hlep the gas engine when necessary.

Period. Seriously.

Charging is good, but its optional. With a fully charged battery you
1) can drive in full electric mode if you want to.
2) drive in hybrid mode and get better gas mileage because with a full battery the powertrain will use more electric to help the gas engine.

So again. Pretend that this 375hp 470 ft-lb of torque powertrain is a quiet V8 and just drive it. And it will reward you with lots of power and decent fuel economy.

You dont' need to do anything beyond leaving it in normal/hybrid mode for this to happen.
It will drive until it runs out of gas.
Filling it with gas will make it run agan. Just like a normal car.

Sponsored