New wet pavement handling issues?...

[MOPAR Boy]

This is great news. Depending on the neanderthal "parts changers" working in a Flat Rate service department to properly diagnose and fix an intermittent problem is a recipe for failure. (The dreaded "Could not duplicate")

If something fails so the problem is persistent, its much more likely they will be able to fix it.

I respectfully disagree. Something is wrong with that vehicle, based on the driver’s description of what happened. I wouldn’t pawn it off as ‘no problemo,’ just because some dealers may be less than great.

IMHO, JM2C, and YMMV!

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[MOPAR Boy]

…no lamo ‘spacers’ either!

 

[dcmdon]

I respectfully disagree. Something is wrong with that vehicle, based on the driver’s description of what happened. I wouldn’t pawn it off as ‘no problemo,’ just because some dealers may be less than great.

IMHO, JM2C, and YMMV!

Please show where I said "no problemo".

Either you have reading comprehension issues or you didn't read what I wrote. So I'll say it again.

At least now, he has a reasonable chance of having it fixed by a dealer "technician" who is disincented by the flat rate pay system used by most auto repair places, from actually diagnosing a problem.

If you have spent any time working on cars, you know that intermittent problems are difficult to chase down. Now that there are lights on the dash showing problems, and throwing DTCs, a tech who isn't really interested in thinking will have something to work on.

Talk to any service writer or mechanic and he will tell you that it is a very good thing when an intermittent problem becomes constant.

 

[Gvsukids]

? ?

 

[XJADDICTION]

Prove me wrong, you cannot find a single manufacturer that makes a 315mm or 12.5" wide 35" or 37" tire and lists a 7.5" wide rim as suitable to be mounted on.

My proof is actually using these tires for this application. I’ve done it for years with no issues… just like having spacers, I’ve used them for years (the best, hub centric with lock-tight never an issue but check at rotation).

I agree do this under your own personal responsibility for any issues.

discount tire is big and mine is very restrictive so do them to say the 37’s are fine on a 7.5 rim , and since I’ve had plenty of experience with this setup, I accept the responsibility.

Now if your an idiot and drive under pressure on road and off road. If you take corners like your driving a Lamborghini in a lifted, big tired, big side walled jeep (or whatever auto) then this application… really any application is not for you.

I have a lot of experience with Jeeps in many configurations. I’m just saying it has always worked for me. With current back order situation, the wheels I want are not available until November/December time. They are on order a 17x8.5 with 5.2 BS and when I get those they will replace the 7.5’s.

All im saying is two things;

1- discount tire said I can have this BFG set up (they are very restrictive on everything I’ve ever taken to them. and I always push the limits, including my GT Mustang on 22x9 (they wouldn’t touch these that came with the car when I bought it) now they replaced the 235x35x22 Chinese crap tires on 22x9 wheels with Michelin 265x45x20 performance tires and 20x10 wheels Squared (meaning same rim and tire for all corners).
2- I’ve done it for many years and I’ve used spacers hub centric 1.5” ?? with 0 as in Zero issues for 100’s if thousands of miles over 20+ years.

do at your own risk, don’t web wheel me, this is just field observations. I am guessing you haven’t had a lot experience with Jeeps or 4x4’s for that matter.

if you are wearing a mask in your car by yourself on the interstate… well at anytime (unless you just have a bowel problem and you are concerned) then move along and leave the info for others to decide.

the two rims and tires pictured;
1- one on the Jeep a 17x7.5 rim with 37x12.50x17 BFG AT KO 2
2- one off the Jeep is a Quadratec replication 17x8.5 with the same BFG AT KO2 37x12.50x17 tire

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Neither, as an ant couldn’t move a 9v battery. At least not the ones where I live.?

You've not seen our carpenter ants. They'd try to steal the sticks to use.
I've seen them drag off stuff bigger than they are with fair ease.

 

[XJADDICTION]

JPP Mopar off road wheels (and Jeep factory Xtreme with 35’s) are standard factory +12, thus they do not stick out and create all sorts of problems with wear, tear, and greatly increased stress loads on entire front end, buying yourself a ton of problems. His Rubicon is equipoed with the new (2018 and up) factory standard Advantec M210 wide front axle, so the wheels and tires are already moved out, a bit. Also, with 37’s, you’re buying extra trouble with rubbing/scraping, particularly when encountering obstacles off road. Now, for a mall crawler, you can get away with some deviation from factory stock +12. Depends what your goal is.

I have the wider axled 4:10 geared Max Tow. Even before the 3.5” lift, so completely stock Max Tow suspension when towing, lock to lock steering turns and mild off-road flex the tires never rubbed. I do have AAL fender chop but still have the factory liners installed.

All of these front end wear comments usually are coming from web wheelers looking up info on internet. My experience is
1- wear will happen on a stock BS rig towing, dd, and off-road. I’ve always upgraded at least the ball joints and I-joints but on even stock components never had issue (well one exception a side flop in my 38” swamped TSL tired MJ with 15x12 wheels, 2” spacers on stock wagoner Dana 44’s. I turned the wheels hard to the left and flipped the Jeep back on all fours without assistance and did break the long side axle and U-joint. In 20 Min I had a spare axle and joint in and was back on the trail. I even drove home 70 miles with my repair and no issues).

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I respectfully disagree. Something is wrong with that vehicle, based on the driver’s description of what happened. I wouldn’t pawn it off as ‘no problemo,’ just because some dealers may be less than great.

IMHO, JM2C, and YMMV!

Service anything is a bad sign to see on the dash.
His description of the transfer case always engaged - if it's while slipping around a corner, not surprised to see it detecting slippage and engaging and staying for a bit - I'd expect something to take place, but........... not going into a corner with nothing slipping.

Limited slip differentials can be funky on wet roads - and to go back to the original post - there's no break-away torque on these, not like the older clutch disk or cone differentials where you raise one wheel and using a torque wrench turn it and see how much torque it takes to "break free" of the other wheel (about 45 pound/feet for many I've worked on)
These will allow one wheel to turn free by hand - it if's not, then that's an issue in itself.
I can raise one wheel on mine and turn that tire. On my Javelin, I cannot - it takes right around 45 pound/feet to break it loose.
But then we have traction control on these beasts which complicates things, too - it won't allow me to nail it around a corner and make some tire noise. The only noise I get is traction control kicking in.

 

[salvino]

Your all terrain tires will not grip like a sedan all-season one, add in RWD and the higher center of gravity plus weight a Jeep can be handful in certain wet conditions, advantage with the gladiator is the longer wheelbase so it's more forgiving than a Wrangler. One just has to drive it slower in these conditions, you can't throw it into a corner like a car, and we have a ton of leaves / pine needles on the roads right now, it's slippy out there. It's been a very dry summer so it's still a transition. Be safe , it's meant to be really wet tmrw.

I was thinking the same thing. I didn't see what package he has but if he's got 4:10s (and he should if he's running 35s) those low gears will spin those tires pretty quick in 2WD. I noticed that when I got mine and am running 37s and 4:88s. You gotta be a little more subtle with the skinny pedal. I think its fun once you get used to it.

 

[GJC501]

I've noticed three times in the last few weeks that the rear-end on my truck has gotten a lot less trust-worthy around turns when the pavement is wet (but not covered in water).--Way easier to put the rear end into a fish-tail and I did so at relatively low speed (35-40 mph) on curves I wouldn't normally have expected it to do so on. My truck has the 2+ inch lift (MOPAR), 35x12.5 Falken Wildpeak AT3Ws (with about 6,000 miles on them). Tires are somewhere under 35 psi, it's cooler now than when I last checked them and I'm admittedly overdue to adjust them but they haven't gone up in PSI. These are the same turns I've always had to take on my commute and I'm taking them in the same weather conditions so as far as I can tell nothing is new there, I'm also not suddenly driving like a race-car driver. It truly feels like I suddenly got 30,000 more miles put on the tires.

It's my first ever truck with a LSD but not my first rear-wheel-drive vehicle in the snow or rain but I'm just surprised at how incredibly easy it has been LATELY to fishtail my rear end. I've checked rear linkages for slop or damage and nothing is obvious. I did get a re-gear done a month or so ago. Any chance they messed up royally with the clutch pack reinstalls when they did that? Easy to mess up? I'm assuming get it on a lift or jacks and check the breaking (term?) torque on the rear to see if the LSD is still in spec? I'm not sure if it makes a difference, but each slide/fish-tail only happens with maintaining speed through the curve so some gas is still being applied.--I'm not accelerating through the curves though. Letting off the gas through the curve plants the truck. (not sure if that's just a RWD drive thing, but I can't exactly be "letting off the gas" for a road with 5 miles of curves without going 20 mph the whole time. )

I obviously don't expect it to handle like an Outback in the rain but it shouldn't obviously be handling like my heavy EV with bald front tires (my Bolt has bald front tires and this is about as bad as that on wet pavement) It's the change in handling and "feel" that has me most concerned. Aside from feeling way less planted in the rear when going around turns or road bends I haven't noticed any other stability issues on the freeway, etc. Thoughts?

I have experienced something similar in Central Texas this past summer with my TexasTrail w/ LSD (stock). I have noticed that when it happened my tires (M/T) were under the recommended 37psi (@35psi for smoother ride).
I have blamed it on my tires inability to handle in poor climatic conditions; I think that my LSD was actually helping me regaining control of my JT as I eased my feather’s foot off the accelerator pedal.

This said, I have found this old article where it is clearly stated that “Although the manufacturers of limited-slip differentials attempt to optimize their designs, they are compromises, and certain inherent limitations must be recognized.
Certain caution must be exercised when accelerating with both rear wheels on a
very slippery surface. If too much throttle is applied, particularly when cornering, lateral stability will be lost, and the rear of the car will go into a slide. This occurs when both wheels spin together without differentiation (i.e., the clutch capacity exceeds the road's ability to induce differentiation).”
(https://onlinepubs.trb.org/Onlinepubs/hrr/1973/477/477-007.pdf)

 

[WillysGladiator]

Having trucks and living in Oregon my whole life, I am surprised how much this one slips. My traction control is on but doesn't engage. When wet I can take off in a straight line spinning the wheels, spin completely sideways at low speed with a little gas which I did by accident this morning. I tried a quick start with a trailer to make it across a busy road and shockingly started to spin out, had to let of the gas to get traction. This feels more like my first pickup truck a 1990 Nissan 2WD without traction control. I've adjusted my driving but clearly will have to slow it down some more.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Having trucks and living in Oregon my whole life, I am surprised how much this one slips. My traction control is on but doesn't engage. When wet I can take off in a straight line spinning the wheels, spin completely sideways at low speed with a little gas which I did by accident this morning. I tried a quick start with a trailer to make it across a busy road and shockingly started to spin out, had to let of the gas to get traction. This feels more like my first pickup truck a 1990 Nissan 2WD without traction control. I've adjusted my driving but clearly will have to slow it down some more.

Ha, I can't get mine to break loose when I try really hard. Romp it and it grips and goes. Any sand or grit - it might slip for a split second, then it grips. The engine bogs to limit torque to the rear and on wet pavement, I can't get a tire to really break loose when I get on it and take the turn like I was 14 again.
When I goose it hard to get through or get around a corner at an intersection because of heavy traffic - I couldn't break the tires loose on a bet.
I can drive this thing like I was driving one of my Javelins - and can't break a tire loose.
If it's already moving it's even worse - no way in hell this would break a tire loose, just won't happen.
Snow or ice, that's different..........

 

[elarse1]

I've noticed three times in the last few weeks that the rear-end on my truck has gotten a lot less trust-worthy around turns when the pavement is wet (but not covered in water).--Way easier to put the rear end into a fish-tail and I did so at relatively low speed (35-40 mph) on curves I wouldn't normally have expected it to do so on.
Thoughts?

I did that just recently with my stock Overland. It had just started raining, so I'm guessing that oily layer (and going a little too fast) did the trick. The truck plowed a little first, which had me more confused than anything, but then the rear kicked out, and then I knew what was going on. It was very easy to recover though, just a little startling.

 

[dcmdon]

Ha, I can't get mine to break loose when I try really hard. Romp it and it grips and goes. Any sand or grit - it might slip for a split second, then it grips. The engine bogs to limit torque to the rear and on wet pavement, I can't get a tire to really break loose when I get on it and take the turn like I was 14 again.
When I goose it hard to get through or get around a corner at an intersection because of heavy traffic - I couldn't break the tires loose on a bet.
I can drive this thing like I was driving one of my Javelins - and can't break a tire loose.
If it's already moving it's even worse - no way in hell this would break a tire loose, just won't happen.
Snow or ice, that's different..........

Just out of curiosity, do you have a limited slip on yours?

Those of us who have (or will be getting) Rubicons or Mojaves are required to drive around on the street with an open diff. Whereas the rest of you have a limited slip that is useful on the street in these kinds of situations.

Of course SelectTrac is probably better than a limited slip, but most people don't seem to be getting SelecTrac.

 

[npgeorgeuw]

This is great news. Depending on the neanderthal "parts changers" working in a Flat Rate service department to properly diagnose and fix an intermittent problem is a recipe for failure. (The dreaded "Could not duplicate")

If something fails so the problem is persistent, its much more likely they will be able to fix it.

It's bad enough that I sent it this morning to the 4WD shop that installed the new gears and front locker before the dealership. I might try a different dealership north of here, the one that is closest to my house is good on service after the fact. By that, I mean they screw every single thing up but go out of their way to fix it in the end so I'm 1000% torn on whether or not I trust them. I guess if you know a bit and babysit them they aren't bad but good god get your crap together so you don't have to play damage control 24/7.

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