Payload increase from axle and suspension upgrade?

[Murgatroid]

Engine cooling too. That was a big factor in the development of the JT.

True, it is why they won't do the manual on the max tow, same will probably happen with the diesel, it won't get the max tow due to cooling.

Sponsored

 

[Alabama Mud Machine]

Really? I would have NEVER thought the frame is the ultimate limiting issue. I figured axles and suspension would give first, as the bed is steel.

Well, there goes my vision of dropping in a bigger engine/transmission, new axles, upgrade suspension, and having an overlanding Jeep truck that can comfortably bring 500-1000lb of gear/food/gas/water after adding racks, bumpers, winches, external armor, etc. as it stands my Max Tow only would allow 1000lbs of gear, supplies, and occupants after adding bed rack, roof rack, steel bumper, and winches.

And when occupants are half that, well 500lbs isnt a lot of food, water, and fuel for extended trips into the wilderness

You’re misunderstanding what I’m saying.

Your axle size does affect your payload or towing capabilities...But not in a vehicle the size of ours. It only determines how strong your axle is and how much tire you can get away with. Because the frame, body, bed, and suspension size (spring diameter and thickness) limits you, and simply cannot handle more than what the 44 will do, that is already in it. The 44 is already enough axle for a 1/4-ton truck frame, bed, and body. You would have to do major frame and suspension upgrades to your vehicle to make a Dana 60 even useful when attempting to increase your payload and towing capabilities.

 

[PyrPatriot]

You’re misunderstanding what I’m saying.

Your axle size does affect your payload or towing capabilities...But not in a vehicle the size of ours. It only determines how strong your axle is and how much tire you can get away with. Because the frame, body, bed, and suspension size (spring diameter and thickness) limits you, and simply cannot handle more than what the 44 will do, that is already in it. The 44 is already enough axle for a 1/4-ton truck frame, bed, and body. You would have to do major frame and suspension upgrades to your vehicle to make a Dana 60 even useful when attempting to increase your payload and towing capabilities.

JT is a 1/4 ton truck? I thought it was closer to 3/4 ton because of the 1600lb payload (1600/2000 = 0.8 ton, closer to 3/4 than 4/4). At the least it's a half-ton. Put then larger trucks like the Nissan Titan and Ram 2500 get the 3/4 designation despite having over 2000lbs payload. Or does designation depend on GVWR, like a 1-ton needing a GVWR over 10k lbs? Searching online seems to be a "size" thing, but still haven't come across 1/4ton.

And yes, along with axles, for payload I did say upgrading the suspension. For me, as a thought experiment/dream, it isn't about cost. It's about getting the PERFECT truck for me. I've even asked about removing all the fancy computer components of the JT to make it more mechanical. Expensive? you bet. But I like to know just how I'll spend my lottery money if I ever get it

 

[velogeek]

JT is a 1/4 ton truck? I thought it was closer to 3/4 ton because of the 1600lb payload (1600/2000 = 0.8 ton, closer to 3/4 than 4/4). At the least it's a half-ton. Put then larger trucks like the Nissan Titan and Ram 2500 get the 3/4 designation despite having over 2000lbs payload. Or does designation depend on GVWR, like a 1-ton needing a GVWR over 10k lbs? Searching online seems to be a "size" thing, but still haven't come across 1/4ton.

And yes, along with axles, for payload I did say upgrading the suspension. For me, as a thought experiment/dream, it isn't about cost. It's about getting the PERFECT truck for me. I've even asked about removing all the fancy computer components of the JT to make it more mechanical. Expensive? you bet. But I like to know just how I'll spend my lottery money if I ever get it

The ton ratings of pickups are synonymous with size and have zero correlation to their actual payload. I mean you can get an F-150 that can have over a ton of payload with two people already in the cab and a "one ton" DRW is over 2 tons at this point.

The reality is that without input from the engineers, we won't know what the limiting factor is. Just because it can be done now doesn't mean that it won't halve the life of some component. Either way, you can't legally go over GVWR without repercussions if something goes awry.

 

[PyrPatriot]

The ton ratings of pickups are synonymous with size and have zero correlation to their actual payload. I mean you can get an F-150 that can have over a ton of payload with two people already in the cab and a "one ton" DRW is over 2 tons at this point.

The reality is that without input from the engineers, we won't know what the limiting factor is. Just because it can be done now doesn't mean that it won't halve the life of some component. Either way, you can't legally go over GVWR without repercussions if something goes awry.

I am ok with theoretical repercussions. At most a fine and in a civil suit experts would counter the modifications and over gvwr label were not causes.
But it looks like I got my answer on the actual payload increase from axles: double gvwr but limited by frame

 

[Josephus]

So let's not forget what forum we are on. This is a Jeep forum, and if there is any group of vehicle owners who will do whatever it takes to increase any aspect of their vehicles performance or capacity... its a bunch of jeepers.
So what would it take?
Dana 60's would be plenty to go up to 1 ton.
The EcoD 3.0L is rated for 10,500 in the Ram 1500 with the same transmission.

Cooling is an issue for sure, fortunately there are plenty of fake vents already cut-in, so just open them up. Now most of the jeepers who go this far will have a winch, so trim the bottom of the grill to open up a little more airflow. Add some washers to the hinges to raise the back edge of the hood and let some heat out. Ceramic headers will hold-in some of the heat from the exhaust until it gets under the body but it makes the pipe hotter. Perhaps getting an aftermarket "grumper" grill and cut bigger vents in it. Elongate the grill slots downward. If you really need more airflow just cut out all the slots and paint vertical stripes on the radiator like the flag owners do.

If I were going to tow that much anywhere south of Alaska, I would also put a transmission cooler in.
Of course once you increase the actual weight of the jeep you will need to install heavier coils, take a look at the Power Wagon part and see if it fits the front?
The fact is everything a Rubicon can do, a Power Wagon can do too (except strip down and go naked). So I would look at FCA/Stellantis partner RAM for parts first.

Lastly there is power and torque. The EcoD has 480 lb/ft of torque in the RAM. I have not seen much in the way of aftermarket for Gen 3 EcoD yet, just a few tuners. Historically diesels have responded well to propane (acts like a catalyst for diesels) which can be used similar to nitrous in a gasoline engine. If you want slightly better performance but better mileage go with a 1/4" port. If you just want "More Power" like Tim Taylor then go straight to the 3/8" port. ATS makes propane kits for Cummins and PowerStroke. Not that there is any room for a bigger intercooler but the RAM has a 2nd intercooler. I wonder if some resourceful jeeper could engineer one to get mounted in the flat part of the hood similar to the military Humvee or H1 (top loader). Just cut out the center between all the fake vents. Again this would improve airflow.

There are a few shops looking into compound turbos for EcoD as well bringing it over 300hp and alot more torque.

Personally, I would like to see how many of the 4XE electrical components we can bolt into the EcoDiesel. For a Hybrid-Electric diesel. How does a 500+ hp and 600+ Lb/Ft torque sound for a Gladiator? Prolly tow 12,000 lbs and get 35mpg extended highway. Add a Long Ranger secondary fuel tank and you could be looking at over 1000 mile range. maybe

Who's going to install the first solar paneled hard tonnaue cover which recharges the LiOn batteries under the back seat?

(sorry I'm distracted by superdawg who is chasing something under the bench beside those old Peterbilt side-mounted air cleaners... hmmm... I'm putting a snorkel on it anyway. It that too much like a big rig?)

I know its alot of work, but if Dave Harrington from AEV isn't gonna do it first = who is?

 

[ALVagabond]

So what would it take?

Recertification of the vehicle. Otherwise, you're stuck with the same payload/towing capacity assigned to that VIN.

 

[j.o.y.ride]

This isn't the platform for huge payloads

 

[PyrPatriot]

Cooling is an issue for sure, fortunately there are plenty of fake vents already cut-in, so just open them up. Now most of the jeepers who go this far will have a winch, so trim the bottom of the grill to open up a little more airflow. Add some washers to the hinges to raise the back edge of the hood and let some heat out. Ceramic headers will hold-in some of the heat from the exhaust until it gets under the body but it makes the pipe hotter. Perhaps getting an aftermarket "grumper" grill and cut bigger vents in it. Elongate the grill slots downward. If you really need more airflow just cut out all the slots and paint vertical stripes on the radiator like the flag owners do.

The question was on payload, not towing. Towing is limited to the cooling and if the FCA engineers said they've done all they can to increase cooling for better towing, I believe them. They've already modified the grill for increased airflow.

The fact is everything a Rubicon can do, a Power Wagon can do too (except strip down and go naked).

Not even close. Doesn't it only have 1,466-pound payload capacity (which is about what the Rubicon has) but lacks lockers, disconnecting swaybar, as good a transfer case for 4L, etc.? I'd take a Ford Ranger over a Powerwagon

Personally, I would like to see how many of the 4XE electrical components we can bolt into the EcoDiesel. For a Hybrid-Electric diesel. How does a 500+ hp and 600+ Lb/Ft torque sound for a Gladiator? Prolly tow 12,000 lbs and get 35mpg extended highway. Add a Long Ranger secondary fuel tank and you could be looking at over 1000 mile range. maybe

There's a reason there are few if any diesel hybrids. That technology is usually used in mass-transit buses.

 

[ACAD_Cowboy]

No no the power wagon has a disco and lockers and deep gears. It is on paper inferior to a normal 2500 because of the softer offroad oriented spring rates.

It however out classes the gladiator in all metrics by virtue of being a v8 powered full size truck. It isnt "better" per se nor is the gladiator rubicon "worse", they are just different classes and sizes of vehicle.

 

[PyrPatriot]

No no the power wagon has a disco and lockers and deep gears. It is on paper inferior to a normal 2500 because of the softer offroad oriented spring rates.

It however out classes the gladiator in all metrics by virtue of being a v8 powered full size truck. It isnt "better" per se nor is the gladiator rubicon "worse", they are just different classes and sizes of vehicle.

Ah. I did a quick search on the Power Wagon to see about lockers and swaybar disconnects, didn't find any so went on that assumption. Thanks for clarifying

 

[ACAD_Cowboy]

Yes, the power wagon is to the ram as rubicon is to the sport or overland.

Factory winch, belly plates, lockers, disco, soft springs and consequentially lower payload and tow ratings.

 

[RubiNewbCB]

https://www.pedders.com.au/kits/gvm-upgrades/jeep/gvm-upgrade-kit-jeep-gladiator

 

[ACAD_Cowboy]

https://www.pedders.com.au/kits/gvm-upgrades/jeep/gvm-upgrade-kit-jeep-gladiator

Ahem...

that is in that jurisdiction where an engineered GVWR upgrade is a permissible act that is blessed by the local licensing and registration body and involves invocating the engineers.

here in 'murika it is not a commonly possible act outside of some arcane situations. the pedders kit would be meaningless here in the US as a legal statement. furthermore, it's a shock and spring kit whose sole purpose is to goose the gvm just enough to qualify as light commercial and not luxury passanger, a tax dodge is the technical term.

the key to the pedders kit is that it can only be applied before the vehicle is first registered ie still within the legal possession and domain of the manufacturer and thus not in a very strict but abstract sense, not an automobile yet.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Eventually. I'm not experienced in the field but tell me if the thought process works

Cooling is the limiting factor for the towing. Towing being the strain on the engine, generates more heat. Max towing is 7650lbs, which means tongue weight should be about 765lbs. That's almost exactly half the payload of a Max Tow sport. So with a 150lb driver, you have 785lb of payload left (assuming 1500-1600lb payload capacity; driver weight discussed in other threads, it's mentioned in the user manual and documents published by FCA, and is the weight accounted for in the tow rating test). But towing is a different stress that payload, because you are having to push your 5000lb truck and pull the 7650lb trailer. I think the combined weight of vehicle and trailer for the Max Tow can't exceed 12,500lbs according to a little card Jeep sent me (makes sense, 5000lb vehicle + 7650lb trailer - 150lb driver = 12500lbs) So the cooling system is designed to move that much weight. I'm not saying you could have a 7650lb payload, because that would break the axles. But the cooling system should in theory be able to move that much weight, less how much is factored into weight concentrated in abed vs spread out via trailer (surface area, more tires for rolling resistance, a couple more factors to consider)

That is where the GAWR comes into play. I think the Gladiator each axle carries 3000 and some change for the GAWR for each axle. That is why when even if you tow, when you go to weigh yourself you also look at how much weight it sitting on each axle to ensure not only that they dont break, but also that the tires are properly on the pavement for safe movement.

Sponsored