Payload seems a little low...

[ShadowsPapa]

New to the forum, and not totally committed to a Gladiator. I started a thread in the "Overland" pages, but it didn't get any traction, and still have a bunch of questions.

It looks like the absolute MAX payload is 1600 lbs, on the Sport, and that doesn't even have lockers as an option. My wife and I both just retired, and are planning an overland vehicle to tour a couple of continents for a year or 2. My Ford is 16 years old, and I want something a little shorter, narrower, and more nimble. But a Colorado, Ranger, or especially Taco are even smaller than a Gladiator.
But even though it's the "Goldilocks" size, I'm struggling to imagine an overland build that stays under the max 1600 lbs payload. I've seen a couple of overland builds, on other vehicles, where they replaced the springs and shocks/struts, and I don't know what else, but at some point it just makes more sense to buy a 3/4 ton and drive it.

How much weight are you carrying, in which model, and how much does it struggle?

Can I add ARB or other lockers to the Dana 44?

If I lift it, can I get heavier springs and shocks?

Is there any auxiliary fuel tank that will fit in the spare tire area? Moving the spare to a bumper mount? (my F150 has 35 gallons, for a 550+ mile range)

Put anything you want under it for springs - but springs and shocks don't change your payload numbers! The shocks do nothing, zip, nada for weight handling as far as payload or towing. Springs - won't increase the payload capability/rating but will keep it from dropping with the payload it's rated for.
It is what it is - a small truck! It's not an F150 or a Silverado 1500.

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[ShadowsPapa]

Are max tow springs really that special? I swapped them out when I lifted. Should I sell them?

Well, folks like me might want them. They will lower an Overland a bit, but -

I put max tow springs under the back of my Overland. It doesn't drop as badly now with the weight I haul or tow. They will NOT increase capability, towing or payload, but they keep my Overland from sagging as much with the weight.
End result - because the Sport S is a bit lighter and other whatevers, the rear of my truck dropped about 3/8" with max tow springs when empty
But I can solve that with spacers - I'm happy because it doesn't drop so badly with the rated payload or tongue weight on it.

Someone with an Overland may want max tow springs to keep their JT from sagging with the rated 1,000 pounds in the bed or 600 pounds of tongue weight on the back.

 

[j.o.y.ride]

I would suggest this. Ask yourself... "if I get to a point where I can't ___ I will be very upset".

Make a list of must haves and work backwards through the trucks you know will do it. Eliminate trucks that don't meet your must haves. Whatever it is. Must have huge payload. Must have factory lockers with warranty, etc. Must have solid axles, or IFS. Whatever your needs are in the end, start there and work back.

 

[JustKip]

Your right on staying with smaller tires not just for the "tickets" but also easier to find the 33" tires in some areas. Steel wheels also actually are not a bad idea, you can beat them back into useable shape and weld them if cracked. Every Gladiator coming off the line usually has a steel spare rim, that a lot of guys going big get rid of cheap, just saying. Sounds like a great way to kick off retirement, ENJOY! ......Jack

This is exactly what I'm thinking. I'd prefer the steel wheels, for the ability to repair in Ecuador. 37" tires can't be found in developing countries either, and I want to keep it looking stock, rather than custom rock crawler. And big tires require big suspension upgrades. I'm going to be driving dirt roads, more than anything else.

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/performance-cost-benefit-to-accessorizing.24139/

Good to see some real numbers! I intend to remove the rear seats, and NEVER have more than 2 people. 370 lbs total. Definitely want the steel bumper and winch. All the doors and top will need to stay on, as we'll be living in it on the road. While I'd like to have rock sliders, I'm not convinced I wan the extra 66 lbs. Good info, thanks

There's definitely people who have setups and trailers that do what you are looking for. Trail Recon channel on YT sometimes pulls a trailer and he and his buddies have some well built overlanding Gladiators. And they do it with the 3.6 and upgraded gear ratios.
Best of luck, sounds like a lot of fun!

I've watched several of Trailrecon's videos. It would be great to have Marco come along and cook! I know gears ain't cheap, but watching youtube makes me think about big tires, and thousands of suspension work and tires...nah!
Thanks!

Put anything you want under it for springs - but springs and shocks don't change your payload numbers! The shocks do nothing, zip, nada for weight handling as far as payload or towing. Springs - won't increase the payload capability/rating but will keep it from dropping with the payload it's rated for.
It is what it is - a small truck! It's not an F150 or a Silverado 1500.

Yeah, I understand that I'm giving up 500 lbs of payload potential, but I have a very well battered F150, and I'd really like to be a little shorter, lighter, and 6" narrower when I head south!

I'm starting to think that airbags or SUMO springs, to manage the fairly constant load, and the right gear ratio....4.10's are fine with 33" tires...wondering, now, if I could even get by with 3.73 gears, 32's, and airbags.
It's past my bedtime, and I'm rambling now. Thanks for all the responses!

 

[Jaxmax]

Stay with the 4.10 gears, also Falken makes a 33” tire (25580R17E) that sort of matches to the Rubicon and Mojaves tires but 10” wide instead of 11.5, actually little bit taller but higher ply rating and load rating, might equal less flats and each tire is ten pounds less then the standard at 52 pounds each. I would be starting with a basic max tow , and add what you want, maybe ARB air locker in rear instead of electric, what can you cut ,what do you really need? Crank windows instead of power, AC is optional, no carpets, trailer hitch? All weight, and possible problem items compared to stone stock simple.
Yup I’m still jealous!.......Jack

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Stay with the 4.10 gears, also Falken makes a 33” tire (25580R17E) that sort of matches to the Rubicon and Mojaves tires but 10” wide instead of 11.5, actually little bit taller but higher ply rating and load rating, might equal less flats and each tire is ten pounds less then the standard at 52 pounds each. I would be starting with a basic max tow , and add what you want, maybe ARB air locker in rear instead of electric, what can you cut ,what do you really need? Crank windows instead of power, AC is optional, no carpets, trailer hitch? All weight, and possible problem items compared to stone stock simple.
Yup I’m still jealous!.......Jack

10 pounds less per tire is right there a decent savings, and help the 3.6 get things moving more quickly on the road. Any time you can reduce unsprung weight, it's a good thing.
Narrower is also better on snow in most cases (if comparing like tires otherwise - uh, but not a concern in much of CA!)

 

[JustKip]

10 pounds less per tire is right there a decent savings, and help the 3.6 get things moving more quickly on the road. Any time you can reduce unsprung weight, it's a good thing.
Narrower is also better on snow in most cases (if comparing like tires otherwise - uh, but not a concern in much of CA!)

I've spent the last 63 years avoiding the snow, and plan to spend NONE of the next 2 years in CA! I'll be doing the snowbird thing on 2 continents, and narrower tires will be a disadvantage on beaches and mud.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I've spent the last 63 years avoiding the snow, and plan to spend NONE of the next 2 years in CA! I'll be doing the snowbird thing on 2 continents, and narrower tires will be a disadvantage on beaches and mud.

Agreed - you want to float on the sand, not sink or cut into it. Wider will be better in that case. your weight will be distributed over more ground, less likely to sink.
Oh, fun - would love to see how this goes. If you write a book.............

 

[cgflyer]

I'm not sure what you are planning on your overland set up/build but my rig is as follows:

SmittyBilt XRC gen 2 bumper and badlands front bumper (added 100 lbs over stock)
Ace Engineering inner fenders (no increase, very light aluminum)
MetalCloak overland fenders (added 80 lbs)
JCR full bed rack (added 85 lbs over stock)
SOS OffroadConcepts custom rear bumper with dual swing outs/spare mount (added 100 lbs, stock bumper and factory hitch receiver were both already pretty heavy)
SmittyBilt two person RTT (130 lbs)
Amazon purchased Awning (30-40 lbs)

(all added wait is guesstimated)

So I'm using roughly 550 lbs give or take of my payload for aftermarket parts. Add a full cooler, two passengers or in my case me and my dog, another 50 lbs in gas and water, 25 lbs for a propane tank and 10-15 lbs for my wok setup and about 50-60 lbs for my recovery gear and I end up right at about 1,000 lbs I'd say.

I'm driving a 6spd MT on 35's in a non-lifted Rubicon on stock 4.10 gears...I do have a Gobi Stealth Rack on order and plan on making my own bedslide. One thing I heard gets overlooked in conversations about GVMR and overloading is wheel bearings, but I don't know if ours are rated to exceed the GVWR by any built in margin, but as a Safety guy by training, I took a Systems Safety course several years ago and manufacturers build into their systems LARGE safety margins. Sometimes with redundancies but in many cases with fail safes of up to 10 to 1.

 

[JustKip]

I'm not sure what you are planning on your overland set up/build but my rig is as follows:

SmittyBilt XRC gen 2 bumper and badlands front bumper (added 100 lbs over stock)
Ace Engineering inner fenders (no increase, very light aluminum)
MetalCloak overland fenders (added 80 lbs)
JCR full bed rack (added 85 lbs over stock)
SOS OffroadConcepts custom rear bumper with dual swing outs/spare mount (added 100 lbs, stock bumper and factory hitch receiver were both already pretty heavy)
SmittyBilt two person RTT (130 lbs)
Amazon purchased Awning (30-40 lbs)

(all added wait is guesstimated)

So I'm using roughly 550 lbs give or take of my payload for aftermarket parts. Add a full cooler, two passengers or in my case me and my dog, another 50 lbs in gas and water, 25 lbs for a propane tank and 10-15 lbs for my wok setup and about 50-60 lbs for my recovery gear and I end up right at about 1,000 lbs I'd say.

I'm driving a 6spd MT on 35's in a non-lifted Rubicon on stock 4.10 gears...I do have a Gobi Stealth Rack on order and plan on making my own bedslide. One thing I heard gets overlooked in conversations about GVMR and overloading is wheel bearings, but I don't know if ours are rated to exceed the GVWR by any built in margin, but as a Safety guy by training, I took a Systems Safety course several years ago and manufacturers build into their systems LARGE safety margins. Sometimes with redundancies but in many cases with fail safes of up to 10 to 1.

I ended up going back with full sized, because...

But even though it's the "Goldilocks" size, I'm struggling to imagine an overland build that stays under the max 1600 lbs payload. I've seen a couple of overland builds, on other vehicles, where they replaced the springs and shocks/struts, and I don't know what else, but at some point it just makes more sense to buy a 3/4 ton and drive it.

I've selected a truck with 1000lbs more payload, and 10 more gallons in the fuel tank. My build includes a FWC pop up camper, at 850 lbs, and that's before tools, food, camping gear, or toys.

 

[WemoVealot]

I love my Gladiator. I selected it to take the family camping (i.e., "overlanding") ... period. Leading up to spring, I'm now 99% complete on my dream setup (e.g., lift, winch, cap, RTT, fridge, etc.)

While I have no regrets purchasing and upgrading my Jeep, I've just realized the severity of grossly underestimating my 'dream' payload weight. I've somehow (foolishly) managed to exceed payload by almost 700 lbs before even loading in my family. "Sticker Shock" from the Cat Scales takes on new meaning.

Yes, I can easily eliminate a bunch of extra weight (fuel and water cans, recovery gear), especially for short excursions, but I'm still going to be way over if I take the fun stuff (RTT, solar/battery, etc. etc.)

Still love the Gladiator and Jeep community. Almost everyone here in Iowa waves I guess I'm just lamenting the fact that my Gladiator isn't also a 3500.

 

[JustKip]

Forgot all about this thread and forum. I bought my F150, did mild suspension mods and switched to 33" load range E tires (from 31.5 inch, load C), and put on the FWC last week. It's definitely not a Jeep, but it's home for the next few years. I wanted smaller, but this is about the minimum I'm willing to live in.
Heading to Alaska when they open the borders. From there I'll spend 2-3 years driving through Central and South America.

 

[Fcmalie]

Forgot all about this thread and forum. I bought my F150, did mild suspension mods and switched to 33" load range E tires (from 31.5 inch, load C), and put on the FWC last week. It's definitely not a Jeep, but it's home for the next few years. I wanted smaller, but this is about the minimum I'm willing to live in.
Heading to Alaska when they open the borders. From there I'll spend 2-3 years driving through Central and South America.

Glad you found the truck that works for you. My wife and I have a JLU and JT currently. She is planning on the JT becoming our camping rig/trailer tow vehicle, but I have a feeling that between us and the 2 kids we might end up bringing 2 vehicles on any trips to carry gear and other stuff.

 

[DrJeep]

They CLAIM it's because of the added "weight" of the Rubicon accessories...Which I think is total load of bullshit, same with the tow rating difference. I'd say they're both fine at 7,650. My guess is they rated them differently for marketing, because you can't call something Max Tow, if the Rubicon had an equal tow rating...Because who would buy a Max Tow for a few grand less, when you could buy a Rubicon with the same ratings PLUS all the Rubicon stuff, for only a couple grand more... The Max Tows would be sitting on the lots collecting dust.

So for BS marketing purposes, they had to claim one was better for towing, so they added slightly stiffer progressive rear springs, and fudged the numbers lower on the Rubicon. That way they all have their little niche' that they fit into. It's marketing 101 stuff. You see it A LOT in the firearms industry, especially for the last 20 years.

The difference comes from the fact that Rubicon has 33" tires and the max tow is on 31". Max tow would inevitably be better in towing given that gear ratios and engines are identical. Rubicon 33" tires (~65 lbs) weigh twice more than 31s (~32 lbs). Also, a larger radius tire will effectively decrease your gearing which means less towing capacity.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The difference comes from the fact that Rubicon has 33" tires and the max tow is on 31". Max tow would inevitably be better in towing given that gear ratios and engines are identical. Rubicon 33" tires (~65 lbs) weigh twice more than 31s (~32 lbs). Also, a larger radius tire will effectively decrease your gearing which means less towing capacity.

Yes, and vehicle weight and vehicle center of gravity. The sport with max tow sits lower. These have to pass testing in the real world. The higher the vehicle, the more trouble it has in certain maneuvers.
Bigger tires also mean the brakes work harder due to the differences in leverage or mechanical advantage.
People think they can out-engineer the testing and engineers.
Ford got caught cheating by leaving off the spare tire among other cheats to get better numbers.

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