Pre-Runner Springs - lots of rear wheel travel

[piroman683]

Ah, I made a mistake in my last comment about pinion angle. With the pro-x upgrade there is not much movement of the pinion angle which is great. The CV joint at the carrier bearing is what sees the big change. I did a 3/4in and 1.5in bearing spacer and liked the 3/4 the best. I measured 17 degrees of driveshaft angle at droop, but that didn't factor in how it's less because of 3/4in lower carrier bearing

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[Chunky White]

Good luck with your future business and your thread was a good read. I am looking to get some suspension and steering upgrades in the future so your thread was interesting even though my local wheeling is different from yours since its just mud and rocks

 

[piroman683]

Good luck with your future business and your thread was a good read. I am looking to get some suspension and steering upgrades in the future so your thread was interesting even though my local wheeling is different from yours since its just mud and rocks

Thanks Chunky, id be interested is hearing how it works out with the rocks if you'd like to help with some testing. Mine won't be as soft, but I think it will be pretty dang good in the rocks, especially when the rear has to slap over a drop. I'll definitely be hitting the rocks soon to find out for sure?

 

[piroman683]

Yikes. The Artec rear lower control arms are 24-1/4" full collapsed. We're going to start with that and see if we can get the pinion into a good place. The stock measurement is 23-3/4", the Claytons you have go from 23-7/16" to 25-1/8".

I have the 25 spline bars in the front/rear with forged arms. Any thoughts on the aluminum arms? I suppose they'd probably have more deflection and would work against the goal of stiffening?

Confirmed I'm at 23-3/4. I'll dig up some droop photos over the next few days and highlight notes on them

 

[Huhnowwhat]

I've been debating sway bars for mine. I love the way it handles corners on the highway with the swaybar connected, it is the factory Mojave bar, but not so fun disconnected. I'll blame that mainly on the too-soft Synergy springs. I'd like to put new sway bars in front and rear and not have to disconnect them in the rocks, I know the higher rate springs will help and allow a softer sway bar.

What do you recommend running front and rear?

 

[piroman683]

I've been debating sway bars for mine. I love the way it handles corners on the highway with the swaybar connected, it is the factory Mojave bar, but not so fun disconnected. I'll blame that mainly on the too-soft Synergy springs. I'd like to put new sway bars in front and rear and not have to disconnect them in the rocks, I know the higher rate springs will help and allow a softer sway bar.

What do you recommend running front and rear?

I went with the softest from RockJock in the front to allow for great flex when smashing though things at high speed. In the past the stock sport sway bar was too stiff and I kep shearing the link bolts at the axle.

For the rear I went with their 1in thick bar initially. That when paired with the front rode great offroad and kept things stable on the highway. However, when I changed my arms to the 21in long steel ones (typically sold for JK's) the truck became a big boat on the highway and off road I had to reduce overall speed because of increase body roll. I changed that out to the 1-1/8in bar in the rear and everything feels almost perfect now. I can stuff the front into big burms at high speeds in the desert and let the burms do the turing work while the truck maintains course and doesnt need to slow down due to excess body roll.

Prior to upgrading to the 1-1/8 I had also tried to firm up compression and rebound in the rear, but it was not enough to reduce the roll, and it had a slightly negative impact on overall rear suspension capabilities in the whoops.

 

[Huhnowwhat]

I went with the softest from RockJock in the front to allow for great flex when smashing though things at high speed. In the past the stock sport sway bar was too stiff and I kep shearing the link bolts at the axle.

For the rear I went with their 1in thick bar initially. That when paired with the front rode great offroad and kept things stable on the highway. However, when I changed my arms to the 21in long steel ones (typically sold for JK's) the truck became a big boat on the highway and off road I had to reduce overall speed because of increase body roll. I changed that out to the 1-1/8in bar in the rear and everything feels almost perfect now. I can stuff the front into big burms at high speeds in the desert and let the burms do the turing work while the truck maintains course and doesnt need to slow down due to excess body roll.

Prior to upgrading to the 1-1/8 I had also tried to firm up compression and rebound in the rear, but it was not enough to reduce the roll, and it had a slightly negative impact on overall rear suspension capabilities in the whoops.

Fantastic! Would putting the stiffer bar up front and in the back work? We don't want to lose too much on-road cornering ability as we live in mountainous terrain here.

 

[piroman683]

Fantastic! Would putting the stiffer bar up front and in the back work? We don't want to lose too much on-road cornering ability as we live in mountainous terrain here.

it really comes down to personal preference. With the soft front and stiff rear I was table to tow 6000 lbs without issues. IMO the softer front makes the general ride smoother since this is a solid front axle vehicle. If you already have the Mojave I'd go with the softer front sway bar. The stock sway bar on the mojave is softer than rubicon and sport/overland trims to allow for better flex in rough terrain without impacting towing and other daily driving requirements. What shocks are you currently running in the front, and can they be revalved?

 

[Huhnowwhat]

it really comes down to personal preference. With the soft front and stiff rear I was table to tow 6000 lbs without issues. IMO the softer front makes the general ride smoother since this is a solid front axle vehicle. If you already have the Mojave I'd go with the softer front sway bar. The stock sway bar on the mojave is softer than rubicon and sport/overland trims to allow for better flex in rough terrain without impacting towing and other daily driving requirements. What shocks are you currently running in the front, and can they be revalved?

I'm currently running the stock IBS shocks that came with it, they have been rebuilt/re-valved when we put our Synergy springs on. They are due for another rebuild. I'm looking at modifying the front first as the jounce shocks also need rebuilding. I'd like to get new front springs, and sway-bar and have them rebuilt/re-valved for that setup. The rear end will have to wait for a bit longer. Stages, you know.

It irritates me how frequently we are in the jounce shocks, so I'd like to solve that first.

Ultimately, I will be replacing the shocks too, with the 3.0 IBS and the Raptor rear ones you suggest. Just have to fit it in as finances allow.

 

[piroman683]

I'm currently running the stock IBS shocks that came with it, they have been rebuilt/re-valved when we put our Synergy springs on. They are due for another rebuild. I'm looking at modifying the front first as the jounce shocks also need rebuilding. I'd like to get new front springs, and sway-bar and have them rebuilt/re-valved for that setup. The rear end will have to wait for a bit longer. Stages, you know.

It irritates me how frequently we are in the jounce shocks, so I'd like to solve that first.

Ultimately, I will be replacing the shocks too, with the 3.0 IBS and the Raptor rear ones you suggest. Just have to fit it in as finances allow.

yeah, those synergy springs will let the front end smack into those bumpstops. If you can wait until June I'll have a great set of front springs, but if not I understand and would recommend Clayton's springs.

 

[Huhnowwhat]

yeah, those synergy springs will let the front end smack into those bumpstops. If you can wait until June I'll have a great set of front springs, but if not I understand and would recommend Clayton's springs.

I can wait for those, June is the timeframe I was looking at anyway.

 

[piroman683]

Good morning gang, here is a link to a video snippet from testing last Sunday in Barstow:

Here's some notes on the current design:


Fronts: looking to run a slightly thinner wire so it is easier to adjust bumpstops and easily install the Synergy 1in bump stop pads. The current spring design makes this tough, but prior to changing the design we are waiting engineering analysis on stress margin. The current design and proposed change have great stress and fatigue margin, and it is important to make sure we understand what the impact (big or small) is. The spring was tested from the supplier at 156lbs/in, design is 160.

Rears: There is some discussion on possibly dropping spring rate down 10lbs. The challenge here is that in most spring manufacturing for coils of this size you have a +/- of about 6-8% of the design spring rate. so for a 150lbs/in design this could mean up to 162lbs or as low as 138. The springs I am testing came in at 143, and since they are 1-off springs they were cold wound. Production will be hot wound which holds tolerances better, but things such as material chemistry have an impact on final rating. The supplier mentioned the 150 target will most likely come in consistently at 145-150, and that will result in an overall free length tolerance of about +/- 1/8in. They match each set so things are uniform.

Typically if they see the spring coming out on the higher side of the rating tolerance the coil will be wound about 1/8in shorter to keep the trim height consistent. The same applies if on the low side (add 1/8in).

Thats all I can muster as an update for now. Happy romping!

 

[matty_ice_light]

sub'd. very cool

 

[Paulyester]

I have a feeling I just bought into an expensive hobby...

 

[aFatBird]

I have a feeling I just bought into an expensive hobby...

Depends on your definition of expensive and what you want from the vehicle. Going fast is always expensive.

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