Smacked in the front ...

[ShadowsPapa]

It’s based on value vs damage at the end of the day. We’ve replaced numerous frames as part of insurance repairs. Frame replacement is a ton of labor hours so it can push one over the edge to be totaled.

Like John said here, it's FMV at the moment before the accident vs. salvage value plus repair costs. It's a formula and it can vary from state to state. If insurance pushes for repairs but those repairs cross what the state defines as totaled, you could have some problems in some places.
Frankly, if a frame replacement showed up in any of the reports you can buy on the internet, it's a non-player for me. Just having the broken body bolt replaced on my truck has left it with a clunk no one can find.
Once it's been apart and back together by people of varied talents and experiences, it's not the same as it was when it left the factory - and by that I mean it ain't gonna be better.
Sometimes it's darned good and there's no issues. Some teams do totally excellent work and you get back a nice vehicle - but............... who is responsible if there's a warranty issue later? Does the dealership say your drivetrain issue is related to the fact the whole truck, engine, transmission, axles, suspension, steering and more, were placed on a frame and they screwed it up?
Sorry, that just bugs me. Been at this too long, seen too many things in the aftermath.
Some will say, rightly so, they got a new frame and life was good for 100,000 miles after.
Think of all of the ground points, attachment points for the wiring harnesses, places things could be pinched or harnesses not properly reattached. Do they give it that level of detail where every single harness mounting point is put back exactly as it should be?

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[ecidiego]

Adjuster might be on the fence about totaling it. Sometimes they can sway things and not just strictly an AI math decision. Ask for it.

 

[BayouKid]

A quick follow-up on this thread.

Long story short: the vehicle is being totaled by the insurance company. The frame has a large compound bend behind the front cross member, which necessitates a full frame replacement (the body shop said that it could be repaired, in theory, but they felt that it would compromise the frame's rigidity). But there were other deeper problems: a potential crack in the front axle (and whatever problems may be under the surface there), some potential problems in the transfer case (probably caused by the front driveshaft getting pushed back), and heaven knows what else is lurking. This only emerged from a cursory examination, and the adjuster felt that there would almost certainly be another supplemental claim once the front end was completely dismantled and the full extent of the damage revealed.

Insurance gave me the choice on this one. Because of the incredibly high resale value of these vehicles, my total cost of ownership over two years and 45,000 miles will only have been about $5,000. Given that payout, I didn't hesitate to say yes to the buyout.

Someone will undoubtedly love to get their hands on that vehicle. It'd be a great starting point for some sort of build. And more power to them!

Mike

 

[ShadowsPapa]

A quick follow-up on this thread.

Long story short: the vehicle is being totaled by the insurance company. The frame has a large compound bend behind the front cross member, which necessitates a full frame replacement (the body shop said that it could be repaired, in theory, but they felt that it would compromise the frame's rigidity). But there were other deeper problems: a potential crack in the front axle (and whatever problems may be under the surface there), some potential problems in the transfer case (probably caused by the front driveshaft getting pushed back), and heaven knows what else is lurking. This only emerged from a cursory examination, and the adjuster felt that there would almost certainly be another supplemental claim once the front end was completely dismantled and the full extent of the damage revealed.

Insurance gave me the choice on this one. Because of the incredibly high resale value of these vehicles, my total cost of ownership over two years and 45,000 miles will only have been about $5,000. Given that payout, I didn't hesitate to say yes to the buyout.

Someone will undoubtedly love to get their hands on that vehicle. It'd be a great starting point for some sort of build. And more power to them!

Mike

Too often the side effects are not thought of. Smack a front axle - there's a driveshaft connection, what sort of shock could the t-case have taken. Potential crack in axle tube, or perhaps tube loosened in the cast housing, who knows.
It's a lot about physics -massive objects really want to stay stationary even if what they are attached to tries to move........ attachment points, internal parts take a shock, whatever.
It would cost someone a bundle to build that back to be reliable unless they had another donor vehicle.
I'd never trust it in any case, even if it was repaired. I'd always be thinking of the "what else got tweaked that was not caught" or "what else shifted and will cause future problems". Physics.
But money takes precedence over physics too often.

 

[Jefe1018]

Sorry for the loss. Typically with insurance, it is never enough to cover the cost of a true replacement and with today's market how could it? MSRP has gone up by like 30% if I wanted to build my exact Jeep again.

 

[ecidiego]

MSRP has gone up by like 30% if I wanted to build my exact Jeep again.

Don't forget the $10k plus discounts...

A lot of standard features in the new ones too. Example - a '23 Mojave comes with 8.4 and proximity locks. Those were options in 2021. SO - if you wanted those anyway, that increase really isn't the price "going up"....

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Don't forget the $10k plus discounts...

A lot of standard features in the new ones too. Example - a '23 Mojave comes with 8.4 and proximity locks. Those were options in 2021. SO - if you wanted those anyway, that increase really isn't the price "going up"....

That's another reason for at least part of the price increases - what was an option is now standard. Passive entry, for example, on everything above a sport if I recall correctly. It used to be an option on all levels - again if I recall correctly.
Some areas of the country have really deep discounts.

 

[Jefe1018]

Don't forget the $10k plus discounts...

A lot of standard features in the new ones too. Example - a '23 Mojave comes with 8.4 and proximity locks. Those were options in 2021. SO - if you wanted those anyway, that increase really isn't the price "going up"....

That's another reason for at least part of the price increases - what was an option is now standard. Passive entry, for example, on everything above a sport if I recall correctly. It used to be an option on all levels - again if I recall correctly.
Some areas of the country have really deep discounts.

Well... here is my quote from 2021 (this configuration I didn't go with as I did go for the diesel but since it is no longer an option it wouldn't be a fair comparison) and the configuration from Jeep's website. It is a jump of $3,545 MSRP, about 6%. You'd likely be at the MSRP from 2021 when starting to negotiate at invoice prices + a few extra dollars. You can see my price before taxes and fees was under $50k two years ago. Today it is likely $52-$53k.

Inflation is eating away at everything. Deals are still out there yes, I'm just getting at loss of value on the dollar when getting an insurance pay out.

EDIT: just noticed I built out a 23 not a 24, but the 24 configurator looks to be down at this time.

 

[Elff]

Sadly, I just had the same thing happen to me.
Damage looks identical except I had my entire passenger flare ripped off.
My Grill is not twisted, but my steering wheel is upside down to drive straight. From visual inspection, I can't see anything tweaked in the steering and the tires are parallel to the naked eye.
So I am not sure what is busted, but something is.

I have to wait until the 17th to get it into the Body Shop for them to take a better look than the insurance adjuster.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

From visual inspection, I can't see anything tweaked in the steering and the tires are parallel to the naked eye.

That's why they need to take measurements - think of the Parthenon (I believe that's the building). It's deliberately made askew, not parallel, with columns that differ) to make it look straight.
The dash on 1980s AMCs was curved but people swear it's totally straight- it looks that way due to the curve. Same for the two-tone colors. The lower color slopes down but due to the shape of the car people swear it's totally parallel to the ground.
Can't eyeball things unless you are using 1 eye to aim a gun.
If the steering is that far off, could be due to a bent steering knuckle, maybe the drag link or tie rod could be bowed a bit - or threads mashed and one is now shorter due to a compressive hit, frame could be tweaked a bit.
If the steering is off that much, it's a bad sign. In the case of my F250 the hit bent the steering knuckle a bit. Alignment shop set toe and checked things but the one thing they failed to check was toe out on turns. Fine going straight but corners and curves were a bitch and the tires squealed around sharp curves at speed.
So make sure any shop measures things, including the spec for toe out on turns. Don't let them just set toe, center the wheel and say it's all ok.
Toe out on turns, thrust angle, all of that needs a close look.

 

[Elff]

I will be all over them for this and have a full list of things for them to check.

 

[BayouKid]

Sorry for the loss. Typically with insurance, it is never enough to cover the cost of a true replacement and with today's market how could it? MSRP has gone up by like 30% if I wanted to build my exact Jeep again.

Actually, I was thrilled with the price that insurance quoted me to buy out the vehicle. As I mentioned before, my total cost of ownership was right around $5,000, which is pretty cheap for two years of ownership and almost 48,000 miles. I'd have taken a much steeper depreciation hit with just about anything else.

As it happens, my vehicular needs have changed somewhat and I'm not going to replace it with another Gladiator, but I did very much enjoy owning it. And at some point, I'm sure I'll be back in the Jeep family. My wife loves her '17 Wrangler, and I have to admit that I really loved driving it while we were temporary a 1 vehicle family.

Mike

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