The 3.6 Tick Bites Trail Recon at 31,000 Miles

[dos0711]

Wondering if they should have used DLC coating like the new version of flat tappet lifters that have come out to deal with cam wiping.

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[DanW]

What Teflon coating?

Some of the wear parts have a coating....and I don´t think it is Teflon, to limit wear with the start/stop system. It was added to the PUG Pentastar that came in the newer Grand Cherokee in either 2017 or 2018 and then the JL and then the Gladiator and is now the only version of the engine. This was explained to me by a friend who was on the design team on the original Pentastar. He said at the time they did not know if it would work, although testing and development showed that it did. But the real world is a different animal. Fast forward to now, it works.

So what does this mean? Well, you can use the start/stop and expect a normal engine life. I think they told me the standard they shoot for is something like 1% or 0.5% failure at 150,000 miles. He told me that if this works (He told me this probably in 2019) then not using the start stop should easily make this a 500,000 mile engine.

I have not watched the video, but if Trail Recon thinks that coating wore off, then I wonder what oil he was running. I run Mobil 1 0w20 EP, which is outstanding oil. I believe it is the best on the market outside of boutique oils like Amsoil´s Signature, HPL, or Red LIne. Really, I think it is just as good as those at a fraction of the price. I don´t know if I will live long enough to see 500,000 miles, but my JL has a lifetime warranty. I intend to push it hard and far.

One thing he did tell me that is important with the 3.6. Don´t drive it for long stretches (and I mean really long) like a grandma. Run it hard. It needs oil splashed occasionally up into the valve stems. If you never run it hard, after a long while it will evaporate that oil and cause wear on the valve stems. At Stellantis (FCA at the time) the engineers called it granny cycling. They studied it so much they developed a dyno test called the granny cycle where they could repeatedly make it happen. Now don´t get all worried. You´d have to drive it that way for a long time. But he told me this engine loves to be run hard and he said get that sucker to redline whenever you feel like it. The more frequently the better. So especially in my JL, which has a manual, I´m up there all the time. I try to remember to do it when I can in the JT, but the JT tows and often stays above 3000 rpm for a few minutes when climbing hills and such.

Btw, a fun thing to notice is when the variable valve timing shifts at 4500rpm. It gets a little kick in the pants. I do that all the time in my JL because it is fun.

Don´t lose any sleep over TR´s issue. Run good oil, run your 3.6 hard, and enjoy it. If you had to replace the whole engine, you can find used ones everywhere for cheap. It isn´t a $12,000 replacement and low mileage ones are easy to find.

If you do worry, buy the longest extended warranty you can get and sleep well. For the record, I don´t have an extended warranty on my JT. I would only do that if they still had the lifetime deal.

I´m getting ready to dump another jug of Mobil 1 EP 0w20 into the JT today. It is approaching 57k or 58k. I do 5,000 mile changes only because it makes me feel good. I have no doubt that running the oil life monitor to 0% with this oil would be no problem. Or with any other reputable brand 0w20. (Pennzoil, Castrol, Valvoline, Quaker State....hell, I even think Walmart Supertech is pretty good oil.)

I think I mentioned this before....I do NOT run the start/stop. I think it is stupid. They did also put a much heavier duty starter on these things, so if you are not using start/stop, you will likely never ever replace the starter. You might not have to anyway, but this guarantees it. I use a Tazer to keep that bullshit thing shut off.

 

[Hootbro]

The link I posted is supposed to automatically queue to the garage talking about the cam issue.

Weird, went to the beginning the first time I clicked the link.

 

[Lunentucker]

I haven't checked online for solutions because I don't have any ticking issue with my 3.6 Pentastar in my 2021 JTM. 4 years young, and 66,000 miles so far. Mostly long-haul highway miles from CA to WI and AZ and such.

I have friends with 3.6 Pentastars in commercial RAM vans that get as much as 300,000 miles out of them.

I had ticking 2.5 and 4.0's in Tj's and YJ's but it was just noise. Piston slap, as they said. Not catastrophic failure. That's just what they do.

So, my question is: Are these 3.6 engines grenading, or just thowing engine lights? Or what? Leaving folks stranded on the highway at 3PM in the desert in the summer with mom and baby in arms because the Jeep just quit running? Seriously.

Or is it a ticking sound and someone thinks it sucks? "Dealer, fix it, it's under warranty."

Please enlighten me. Are we struggling with a nat, and swallowing a camel? To fix a non-issue?

Thousands of cams on back order? Can one of you Jeep employees verify that? Seriously.

I like"Brad" and have watched his TrailRecon YT channel a long time. I think that he is a good fellow and very similar to myself.

But shock videos sell. Just sayin.

Show me a 3.6 Pentastar complete failure because of cam or rocker issues. Seeing the supposed thousands of cams on backorder there must be at least 100's of videos or testimonies of complete engine failure due to 'ticking' cam or rockers in the 3.6.

I am serious and open minded about this.

Be Well. Jeep on.

Eric

It seems to be like so many vehicles and their associated problems. A lottery.
But yes, if it wears far enough to throw the air fuel out of whack, as mentioned in the video, you can get a CEL, and it could lead to being put into limp mode of a complete failure. Not instantly, but it could go there if you keep driving.

 

[willys 41]

From their description of the problem and what causes it - it makes it sound inevitable. It's not a matter of "if" but "when" the teflon coating wears off that rocker arm. And when that happens - it's just a few hundred miles later you throw a CIL.

Yet, I also hear about people with over 100K on their engines without this problem.

So, what are your thoughts? Is this the inevitable end to every Gladiator motor? Are we all driving ticking time bombs? (pun intended)

Here is what I did that I hope will avoid the cam / rocker issue.
1. Installed the RPM Extreme JL fan controller. This has lowered my coolant and most important my oil temps by 25 to 30 degrees.
2. From the very start I ran Valvoline 5w30 oil and now running Valvoline European 5w40 oil. This is what most European manufacturer use including the Maserati 3.0 v6 gas which is basictly the same as the jeep 3.6. I have not been able to find any cam issues with the Maserati 3.0 v6 gas.
Will this help with the cam issue. I hope so. To me it is common sense.
I now have 30k on my 2020 Willys 3.6. Here is a picture of my magnetic drain plug from my last oil change. No metal here.

 

[Viper]

Here is what I did that I hope will avoid the cam / rocker issue.
1. Installed the RPM Extreme JL fan controller. This has lowered my coolant and most important my oil temps by 25 to 30 degrees.
2. From the very start I ran Valvoline 5w30 oil and now running Valvoline European 5w40 oil. This is what most European manufacturer use including the Maserati 3.0 v6 gas which is basictly the same as the jeep 3.6. I have not been able to find any cam issues with the Maserati 3.0 v6 gas.
Will this help with the cam issue. I hope so. To me it is common sense.
I now have 30k on my 2020 Willys 3.6. Here is a picture of my magnetic drain plug from my last oil change. No metal here.

I feel like a heavier weight oil might help too with the high temps the 3.6 runs. Dealer advised me to add BG MOA at each change. My tock showed up a month ago at 43k now torn down ata shop waiting on parts

 

[Viper]

I haven't checked online for solutions because I don't have any ticking issue with my 3.6 Pentastar in my 2021 JTM. 4 years young, and 66,000 miles so far. Mostly long-haul highway miles from CA to WI and AZ and such.

I have friends with 3.6 Pentastars in commercial RAM vans that get as much as 300,000 miles out of them.

I had ticking 2.5 and 4.0's in Tj's and YJ's but it was just noise. Piston slap, as they said. Not catastrophic failure. That's just what they do.

So, my question is: Are these 3.6 engines grenading, or just thowing engine lights? Or what? Leaving folks stranded on the highway at 3PM in the desert in the summer with mom and baby in arms because the Jeep just quit running? Seriously.

Or is it a ticking sound and someone thinks it sucks? "Dealer, fix it, it's under warranty."

Please enlighten me. Are we struggling with a nat, and swallowing a camel? To fix a non-issue?

Thousands of cams on back order? Can one of you Jeep employees verify that? Seriously.

I like"Brad" and have watched his TrailRecon YT channel a long time. I think that he is a good fellow and very similar to myself.

But shock videos sell. Just sayin.

Show me a 3.6 Pentastar complete failure because of cam or rocker issues. Seeing the supposed thousands of cams on backorder there must be at least 100's of videos or testimonies of complete engine failure due to 'ticking' cam or rockers in the 3.6.

I am serious and open minded about this.

Be Well. Jeep on.

Eric

I can verify there are 12 to 13k owners in que to receive parts I am one of them. Where in line who knows. What i do know is IF they don't figure out the issue not only will the back order continue to grown the owners will start to drop. I considered an engine swap but that is the price of a brand new vehicle.

 

[Flyboy2109]

I think I mentioned this before....I do NOT run the start/stop. I think it is stupid. They did also put a much heavier duty starter on these things, so if you are not using start/stop, you will likely never ever replace the starter. You might not have to anyway, but this guarantees it. I use a Tazer to keep that bullshit thing shut off. --DanW

I couldn't agree more! Let's roll up to a stop after some highway miles and cut the oil pressure, then restart. For a few ounces of fuel savings? Nahhhh! I am only a shade tree mechanic, but was a commercial pilot where maintenance was important. A jet turbine will run quite awhile without much oil...until the power level is changed, then it seizes.

 

[JTGuy]

So,, you get the cam failure and wait. Then they do the repair. Is there anything about the repair that keeps from happening again? What happened to the roller rockers?

 

[Viper]

So,, you get the cam failure and wait. Then they do the repair. Is there anything about the repair that keeps from happening again? What happened to the roller rockers?

I believe its the rockers that fail then damaging the cam. Immediate action may reduce the extent of the repair with just rockers or lifters. As in mine we went to the mountains and on the way back tick started. got home went to the parts store then the dealer and to a repair shop cam scoured. that was over a month ago when the research and search began for parts.

 

[Hootbro]

I believe its the rockers that fail then damaging the cam.

If it was just the rockers, I would expect it to favor both left and right banks, somewhat equally, but overwhelmingly by large margins it is the passenger right bank that has just about all the problems.

 

[Charles 236]

Some of the wear parts have a coating....and I don´t think it is Teflon, to limit wear with the start/stop system. It was added to the PUG Pentastar that came in the newer Grand Cherokee in either 2017 or 2018 and then the JL and then the Gladiator and is now the only version of the engine. This was explained to me by a friend who was on the design team on the original Pentastar. He said at the time they did not know if it would work, although testing and development showed that it did. But the real world is a different animal. Fast forward to now, it works.

So what does this mean? Well, you can use the start/stop and expect a normal engine life. I think they told me the standard they shoot for is something like 1% or 0.5% failure at 150,000 miles. He told me that if this works (He told me this probably in 2019) then not using the start stop should easily make this a 500,000 mile engine.

I have not watched the video, but if Trail Recon thinks that coating wore off, then I wonder what oil he was running. I run Mobil 1 0w20 EP, which is outstanding oil. I believe it is the best on the market outside of boutique oils like Amsoil´s Signature, HPL, or Red LIne. Really, I think it is just as good as those at a fraction of the price. I don´t know if I will live long enough to see 500,000 miles, but my JL has a lifetime warranty. I intend to push it hard and far.

One thing he did tell me that is important with the 3.6. Don´t drive it for long stretches (and I mean really long) like a grandma. Run it hard. It needs oil splashed occasionally up into the valve stems. If you never run it hard, after a long while it will evaporate that oil and cause wear on the valve stems. At Stellantis (FCA at the time) the engineers called it granny cycling. They studied it so much they developed a dyno test called the granny cycle where they could repeatedly make it happen. Now don´t get all worried. You´d have to drive it that way for a long time. But he told me this engine loves to be run hard and he said get that sucker to redline whenever you feel like it. The more frequently the better. So especially in my JL, which has a manual, I´m up there all the time. I try to remember to do it when I can in the JT, but the JT tows and often stays above 3000 rpm for a few minutes when climbing hills and such.

Btw, a fun thing to notice is when the variable valve timing shifts at 4500rpm. It gets a little kick in the pants. I do that all the time in my JL because it is fun.

Don´t lose any sleep over TR´s issue. Run good oil, run your 3.6 hard, and enjoy it. If you had to replace the whole engine, you can find used ones everywhere for cheap. It isn´t a $12,000 replacement and low mileage ones are easy to find.

If you do worry, buy the longest extended warranty you can get and sleep well. For the record, I don´t have an extended warranty on my JT. I would only do that if they still had the lifetime deal.

I´m getting ready to dump another jug of Mobil 1 EP 0w20 into the JT today. It is approaching 57k or 58k. I do 5,000 mile changes only because it makes me feel good. I have no doubt that running the oil life monitor to 0% with this oil would be no problem. Or with any other reputable brand 0w20. (Pennzoil, Castrol, Valvoline, Quaker State....hell, I even think Walmart Supertech is pretty good oil.)

I think I mentioned this before....I do NOT run the start/stop. I think it is stupid. They did also put a much heavier duty starter on these things, so if you are not using start/stop, you will likely never ever replace the starter. You might not have to anyway, but this guarantees it. I use a Tazer to keep that bullshit thing shut off.

I was only kidding about the Teflon coating. I work on Jeeps for a living, I have worked on 3.6 Pentastar and Pentastar Upgrade engines since they came out. There is no Teflon coating on the rockers, only on the bearings and piston skirts. The high lift rocker arms are hardened, not coated. Oil spray patterns are mainly responsible for high lift rocker arm wear.

 

[OldButStillJeeping]

So what does this mean? Well, you can use the start/stop and expect a normal engine life. I think they told me the standard they shoot for is something like 1% or 0.5% failure at 150,000 miles. He told me that if this works (He told me this probably in 2019) then not using the start stop should easily make this a 500,000 mile engine.

I run Mobil 1 0w20 EP, which is outstanding oil. I believe it is the best on the market outside of boutique oils like Amsoil´s Signature, HPL, or Red LIne. Really, I think it is just as good as those at a fraction of the price. I don´t know if I will live long enough to see 500,000 miles, but my JL has a lifetime warranty. I intend to push it hard and far.

One thing he did tell me that is important with the 3.6. Don´t drive it for long stretches (and I mean really long) like a grandma. Run it hard. It needs oil splashed occasionally up into the valve stems. If you never run it hard, after a long while it will evaporate that oil and cause wear on the valve stems. At Stellantis (FCA at the time) the engineers called it granny cycling. They studied it so much they developed a dyno test called the granny cycle where they could repeatedly make it happen. Now don´t get all worried. You´d have to drive it that way for a long time. But he told me this engine loves to be run hard and he said get that sucker to redline whenever you feel like it. The more frequently the better. So especially in my JL, which has a manual, I´m up there all the time. I try to remember to do it when I can in the JT, but the JT tows and often stays above 3000 rpm for a few minutes when climbing hills and such.

Btw, a fun thing to notice is when the variable valve timing shifts at 4500rpm. It gets a little kick in the pants. I do that all the time in my JL because it is fun.

I think I mentioned this before....I do NOT run the start/stop. I think it is stupid. They did also put a much heavier duty starter on these things, so if you are not using start/stop, you will likely never ever replace the starter. You might not have to anyway, but this guarantees it. I use a Tazer to keep that bullshit thing shut off.

Thank you.

My wife and I have driven our 3.6 in our JTM thousands of miles in several 2 day trips. 2,000 miles in 32 to 36 hours, and no hotel stops. Just stop for gas, potty stop for us and our dogs and a burger and then: Back on the road. We run it hard over the 70 Denver mountain pass and the 80 in Utah further north. Speed limits are 70 and 75 (80 I think too) out there, and we usually run 5 mph over to keep up with traffic. So 80, 85, even 95 mph at times. That 3.6 is screaming for hours and hours and even days on end.

Now, at 66K miles, it idles so quitely, standing outside the truck at 20 feet away I can't hear if the engine is running.

Late last year we were on the 15 coming down into Vegas , from the north, and hit traffic. (Man I hate Vegas). Speed dropped to zero after we we flying along at 75 mph, and I thought that the engine died. In a mild panic, I checked the tach... it was just idling so quietly that I couldn't hear it.

I change the oil every 4 to 5K, no matter what the dash oil meter says. I use Mobil One or Pennzoil Ultra Platinum.

I think, in my case, I think @DanW is correct. Drive it hard.

My friends with 300,000 mile 3.6 Pentastars own companies, and their employees drive them hard. Their employees, HVAC techs, and the like, wouldn't care a rat's ass about any ticking sound. They just go for 250,000 to 300,000 miles, seemingly without major failure. They probably wouldn't even take notice of a CEL.

 

[Vtur]

Jeep need to suck it up and reach out to Honda's engineers on how to build a variable valve timing top end.

 

[DanW]

Thank you.

My wife and I have driven our 3.6 in our JTM thousands of miles in several 2 day trips. 2,000 miles in 32 to 36 hours, and no hotel stops. Just stop for gas, potty stop for us and our dogs and a burger and then: Back on the road. We run it hard over the 70 Denver mountain pass and the 80 in Utah further north. Speed limits are 70 and 75 (80 I think too) out there, and we usually run 5 mph over to keep up with traffic. So 80, 85, even 95 mph at times. That 3.6 is screaming for hours and hours and even days on end.

Now, at 66K miles, it idles so quitely, standing outside the truck at 20 feet away I can't hear if the engine is running.

Late last year we were on the 15 coming down into Vegas , from the north, and hit traffic. (Man I hate Vegas). Speed dropped to zero after we we flying along at 75 mph, and I thought that the engine died. In a mild panic, I checked the tach... it was just idling so quietly that I couldn't hear it.

I change the oil every 4 to 5K, no matter what the dash oil meter says. I use Mobil One or Pennzoil Ultra Platinum.

I think, in my case, I think @DanW is correct. Drive it hard.

My friends with 300,000 mile 3.6 Pentastars own companies, and their employees drive them hard. Their employees, HVAC techs, and the like, wouldn't care a rat's ass about any ticking sound. They just go for 250,000 to 300,000 miles, seemingly without major failure. They probably wouldn't even take notice of a CEL.

I hate to admit this but I accidentally left mine running at the Chicago Museum of Science and Industry. We were in a hurry to beat the crowd and somehow I left it running and did not notice it in spite of spending a few minutes at the Jeep before leaving. This thing is quiet as a church mouse. On 0w20. We came out 5 hours later and I just about crapped myself realizing it had been running the whole time.

Here´s today´s oil change. I am at 4600 miles on the previous change. I usually do 5k, give or take a few hundred miles.

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