The 3.6 Tick Bites Trail Recon at 31,000 Miles

[ShadowsPapa]

Because I am not aware of any manufacturer that run there engines as hot as 235 to 240 degrees.
The jeep fan only come on at 15% fan speed at 221 and 75% fan speed at 231.
To little to late.
Just ask the jeep owners with trailers and or heavy rigs about limp mode.

Maybe at high altitudes. I've never seen that on a gasser while towing.

I've hit 230 or so, but wasn't concerned at all as it came back down pretty quickly once I moved into manual mode and held the gears.
Mine does 200 not infrequently, even 210 just driving in the summer. No biggy.
These days, it's considered normal for a V6 to run 220.

Maybe those running "hot" are pulling "heavy rigs" at high altitude. Are they exceeding the designed ratings? Possibly - we've seen a whole lot of that over the years.

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[ShadowsPapa]

I installed the Baxter Performance oil filter adapter on mine a while ago. It keeps oil in the top end unlike the stock filter that drains everything into the pan when the engines is off. This eliminates the couple seconds with no oil on the rockers on start up. About 65,000 miles on it now and so far so good.

It really can only hold oil in the filter itself - to a point. On startup, you aren't running in the high lift mode dragging the center part of the follower across the cam.
These also have oil pressure built up by the time they start - watch the oil pressure of a bone-stock 3.6 at start sometimes.

What do we say to the millions over 65,000 miles with no issues at all on the stock system?

Not that I'm "against" it, just that it's more of a solution looking for problems, IMO.
No one can prove or indicate it helps or not. Sort of like those advocating the "dry crank" - (weird name LOL - last thing you want is DRY cranking).

 

[willys 41]

Kuddos. You may be right. You might be onto something. Sell me on it.

But I smell a something for nothing. Vehicles have run wthout oil filter pre-fill or adapters for a Century. 100 years and more.

But, I have never had oil filter pre-fill issues. Pre-fill the filter or otherwise: In my 40 years of oil changes and engine repairs done by me or my mechanic friends. Or even the delaership.... Oil filter pre-fill was NEVER an issue.

You can sell it to some. If the engine has been sitting for a year and hasn't been run. Then I agree. It can't be bad. But it doesn't flow until the engine turns. Old oil recirculates.

Sell me on why I am wrong.

Be well. Jeep on.

Eric

Most motors have the filter located at the bottom of the motor and always full of oil.
Let your 3.6 sit over night.
Remove the oil filter cap.
Remove the oil filter.
What you will find is a completely empty oil filter housing and the oil filter isn't even dripping oil.
All the oil from the housing and the oil cooler have drained back to the pan.
Now all that air will have to be pushed though the system.

 

[chr15m]

It really can only hold oil in the filter itself - to a point. On startup, you aren't running in the high lift mode dragging the center part of the follower across the cam.
These also have oil pressure built up by the time they start - watch the oil pressure of a bone-stock 3.6 at start sometimes.

What do we say to the millions over 65,000 miles with no issues at all on the stock system?

Not that I'm "against" it, just that it's more of a solution looking for problems, IMO.
No one can prove or indicate it helps or not. Sort of like those advocating the "dry crank" - (weird name LOL - last thing you want is DRY cranking).

"just that it's more of a solution looking for problems"

To be a fly on the wall,.. in the cab..at the dealership. I wonder how many would opt to leave the filter adapter installed if by chance they encountered the lifter tick?

Surely a solution looking for a chance to give the dealer their quick out on warranty coverage, especially given the consideration to delays in part availability and the propensity people have to switch to the old lizard brain when they're without their truck for more than a couple weeks.

Perhaps we could do a census on failure rates for those who had their JTs delivered with or without an engine cover?

Stay in school and stay off the dry crank.

 

[darkhorse13]

If it was just the rockers, I would expect it to favor both left and right banks, somewhat equally, but overwhelmingly by large margins it is the passenger right bank that has just about all the problems.

I believe it's the valve lash adjustors (i.e. lifters) that collapse and fail, thus sending the rockers into the camshaft... again though, this is the internet so all answers are correct

 

[Billyjoejimbob]

I had an '18 Rubicon jl that got the tick, it was still going strong at 130K when I traded her in!

 

[Hootbro]

I believe it's the valve lash adjustors (i.e. lifters) that collapse and fail, thus sending the rockers into the camshaft... again though, this is the internet so all answers are correct

It still comes back with the question of why the right hand bank is the majority of these failures seen?

I am no Rocket Surgeon but I have slept in a Holiday Inn a time or two. Quite a bit of brainiac power has been expended across here and the interwebs but the more something makes sense as possible cause, the more questions that arise to put those assumptions in doubt.

What @DanW says about the numbers makes sense that the perception rate of failure is probably overblown by many fold. Just when it happens to oneself, the rate seems like 100% probable.

 

[darkhorse13]

It still comes back with the question of why the right hand bank is the majority of these failures seen?

I am no Rocket Surgeon but I have slept in a Holiday Inn a time or two. Quite a bit of brainiac power has been expended across here and the interwebs but the more something makes sense as possible cause, the more questions that arise to put those assumptions in doubt.

What @DanW says about the numbers makes since that the perception of rate of failure is probably overblown by many fold. Just when it happens to oneself, the rate seems like 100% probable.

^^ close thread ^^

Well said!

 

[chr15m]

^^ close thread ^^

Well said!

Pretty much, I think in a psychological sense we all have a shared vulnerability in that we enjoy our trucks and most of us share the same possible risk in this situation. Our shared appreciation is going to show up in a variety of ways in the microcosm that is this forum, primarily, concerns will be given a disproportionately louder voice. On the macro level, the fact that whether we are arguing or agreeing is more likely an expression of the shared mindset of either the desire for our trucks to be great or the desire to keep our trucks great.

But yeah, if perhaps some 15000 (or whatever it may be) waiting orders for camshafts seems like a large value, it is in relation to the some 11 million plus Pentastars out there, miniscule.

In my perspective it seems like just about all vehicles suffer from some sort of challenge, community can either amplify it beyond reasonable concern, or serve as a network of resources to show it in its real scale. Jokes aside, although I appreciate them here, there's something valuable in just about all of our opinions here.

I've said it before, life is short and Im glad I managed to squeeze my JT into its schedule. YMMV

 

[StevieY1]

I swear by Slick 50… Had it in my 2006 go mango Charger Daytona 5.7L Hemi and that puppy is up to 350,000 clicks - now my clicks are kilometres so there’s that

 

[Hootbro]

Slick 50, oh boy!

 

[DanW]

Because I am not aware of any manufacturer that run there engines as hot as 235 to 240 degrees.
The jeep fan only come on at 15% fan speed at 221 and 75% fan speed at 231.
To little to late.
Just ask the jeep owners with trailers and or heavy rigs about limp mode.

The Pentastar´s oil temperature sensor is located in an unusually hot part of the engine, according to the former design engineer. And btw, I have never seen mine show anything higher than 224. And it would take quite a bit more than 240 to cook a good synthetic oil.

Both of my Pentastars are consistent with the temps under similar loads and conditions. I´ve crawled at 1 mph in the desert with over 100 degree ambient temps and did not see more than 224 degrees with the oil or coolant. With the AC on, it usually stayed between 195 and 200 because the fan stays at a higher speed with AC. I would imagine my JT will be the same or similar. I haven´t put it through anything like that yet, though.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The Pentastar´s oil temperature sensor is located in an unusually hot part of the engine, according to the former design engineer. And btw, I have never seen mine show anything higher than 224. And it would take quite a bit more than 240 to cook a good synthetic oil.

Both of my Pentastars are consistent with the temps under similar loads and conditions. I´ve crawled at 1 mph in the desert with over 100 degree ambient temps and did not see more than 224 degrees with the oil or coolant. With the AC on, it usually stayed between 195 and 200 because the fan stays at a higher speed with AC. I would imagine my JT will be the same or similar. I haven´t put it through anything like that yet, though.

Quite a bit more than 240 - 300 in some cases, depending on the oil itself.
I've never seen oil that was even close to making me worry.

Most motors have the filter located at the bottom of the motor and always full of oil.

Well, it depends on the engine - some, in fact, many, I6 are along the side and horizontal, above the bottom. SBC, yeah, clear under the block.

I would also suggest people look at the VOLUME, the size of the filter. Consider what our teeny filter holds vs the size of filters historically used.
Also consider the oil pump VOLUME. We have a high volume pump, a vane type, not a gear type, capable of moving a whole lot more oil than most other oil pumps.
So we're again comparing apples and cabbage.
Large pump capable of moving much more oil a lot faster (driven by the crankshaft where many were driven by the CAM, at half crank RPM)

Let your 3.6 sit over night.
Remove the oil filter cap.
Remove the oil filter.
What you will find is a completely empty oil filter housing and the oil filter isn't even dripping oil.
All the oil from the housing and the oil cooler have drained back to the pan.
Now all that air will have to be pushed though the system.

i circle back to consider the volume, capacity, size of the filter vs. prior filters. Also consider the PUMP capacity. These move a whole lot more oil - a LOT more, faster. And they start up in high volume, high pressure mode!

When you change the oil in the "other engines" being talked about, you are starting that engine with an empty filter - which can hold almost a quart of fluid, and you are waiting for it to be filled by a gear type pump driven half crank speed by the camshaft.

With ours, you are filling a tiny filter using a high volume pump driven by the crankshaft.

With that "Baxter" adapter, all you do is keep oil in the filter. So what? That's what, a pint? It takes a second or two to fill it with a high volume pump.
You are NOT preventing lash adjuster bleed-down! You are not preventing oil from draining back out of many of the other oil galleries. All you are doing is keeping oil in the filter.
No big deal. The rest of the system can still drain back - out through the clearances built into the parts being oiled.

So really, IMO, you are accomplishing very little, other than to keep a small amount of oil in a small oil filter, while the rest of it can drain back out.
The oil pump in these makes up for oil draining out of the filter -
Change your cluster display to show oil pressure.
Then next time you start your 3.6 - watch how fast that pressure builds - keeping in mind that pressure can NOT build until the air is gone! And keep in mind, the cluster display for the gauges isn't instantaneous. There's a lag, so it's actually got pressure a bit before you see that it has pressure.

In short - it's a "yawn" for me. If it makes you feel better, do it, I guess.

The one and only thing that could even play into the cam thing is what Charles has said - but even that's just his educated guess, based on observations, etc.
But every time someone finds a youtube video of an influencer losing a cam - we'll do it all over again!

 

[JTGuy]

Is there no way to correct this issue? They know what the problem is. They build thousands of these every year.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Is there no way to correct this issue? They know what the problem is. They build thousands of these every year.

They do?

Do you suppose it's 2% of the reason 24 and later engines are not made in Mexico? Or is it all gearing up for hurricane and ev's?
In the grand scheme of things, it's not huge numbers.

What is the issue and what do they know?
Why have many millions of us never seen this?
Is it like Hootbro said, perhaps?

An influencer with a big following has a problem and it's bigger than life! He puts out videos about it and it's a global issue.

As of 2023, the plant in Mexico ALONE had put put SIX MILLION of the 3.6 That's just the Saltillo plant alone, by itself.
Using past total figures from about 2019, one can project the total 3.6 production to be over 20 million units.

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