The clutch recall was recalled?

[Zachattack50]

What does everyone think Stellantis will do? I'm holding out on an aftermarket clutch until I see their plans, but I'm genuinely curious how this will be resolved, and when. Is it even plausible that they will replace the clutch with a stouter unit?

Stellantis wont do anything except continue to band aid the situation until your "warranty" runs out. In the meantime, if your trans frags, your still going to be making those payments on a disabled jeep.

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[Hipbilly]

I had the "recall" done before, but still never trusted the OE clutch.
I lucked into a CF after their design changes, with my price locked in on the original part, from Quadratec.

Regarding labor, it took me and a buddy 17hrs straight through, on the floor. A lift and experience would have helped speed things up, but I can't see getting it done much quicker than 12hrs.

Everything's pretty straight forward, bolt-out bolt-in, but you have to bleed the CRAP out of the hydraulics to fully disengage the clutch and get it into gear. Night one I had to pump the clutch pedal to get it in gear and drive home, the next morning I came back for round two of vacuum bleeding, and finally got it to disengage about 1/2" off the floor. It's up by about 1.5" now.

 

[Artsifrtsi]

Yo dawg... we heard you like recalls, so we're recalling your recall...

 

[skindata]

Here’s a link to a review of the ACT clutch that was posted a day ago for anyone interested.

 

[AustinL911]

Here’s a link to a review of the ACT clutch that was posted a day ago for anyone interested.

Question for the day:

Can One use the ACT clutch with the Centerforce flywheel? The CF flywheel is about 3lb heavier and, to me, that sounds desirable. Perhaps I'm overthinking it.


Edit*- Answered my own question by reading the fine print; they are NOT compatible.

 

[Zachattack50]

I had the "recall" done before, but still never trusted the OE clutch.
I lucked into a CF after their design changes, with my price locked in on the original part, from Quadratec.

Regarding labor, it took me and a buddy 17hrs straight through, on the floor. A lift and experience would have helped speed things up, but I can't see getting it done much quicker than 12hrs.

Everything's pretty straight forward, bolt-out bolt-in, but you have to bleed the CRAP out of the hydraulics to fully disengage the clutch and get it into gear. Night one I had to pump the clutch pedal to get it in gear and drive home, the next morning I came back for round two of vacuum bleeding, and finally got it to disengage about 1/2" off the floor. It's up by about 1.5" now.

I thought bleeding was goin to be a nightmare too, but it went flawlessly doing it the way CF recommends. I just pumped the slave about 15 times, installed it, and gtg. Maybe I got lucky.

 

[Zachattack50]

Here’s a link to a review of the ACT clutch that was posted a day ago for anyone interested.

To bad they are 2-3 weeks out

 

[AustinL911]

So any real ACT vs CF data out there?

ACT:
479 ft/lb capacity
No hydraulics to change
slightly bigger disk (11")
significantly cheaper
(2) flywheel choices: Street mass (28.8lb)/pro mass (40.8lb)

CF:
494 ft/lb capacity
hydraulics to change (could be a positive or a negative)
slightly smaller disk (10.4")
more expensive
one flywheel option, but its heavier (43.8lb), though arguably negligible since its also a smaller radius (some physicist do the math for me)


Edit*- Googled the maths. ACT's lighter but wider flywheel actually carries a bit more energy (assuming even weight distribution) than the heavier/narrower CF. That makes this decision easier for me then.

 

[TheDerb]

What does everyone think Stellantis will do? I'm holding out on an aftermarket clutch until I see their plans, but I'm genuinely curious how this will be resolved, and when. Is it even plausible that they will replace the clutch with a stouter unit?

The general process for recall issues within the automotive industry:

The first thing they will do is attempt to mitigate issues via a firmware adjustment. If that doesn't work, they will move to modifying existing hardware. If that doesn't work, they will replace hardware with new parts.

In any case, though, there are a lot of considerations they will go through before they replace the OEM hardware that is already in the vehicles. Stellantis has given the EPA certain figures for the fleet, and they don't want to stray too far away from those. Nor do they want to write off 8 hours of labor for each impacted Gladiator and Wrangler as well as purchase or manufacture however many thousands of new systems it would take do a recall of that size.

Keep in mind: changes to something like the clutch could foreseeably impact mileage figures, and it may be easier and cheaper to handicap the engine's output via an ECU update to remain in line with the EPA figures they have provided than it is to put new hardware in, even though that is going to put the existing manual trucks on the streets down to borderline laughable performance numbers.

Knowing all of that, my money (that's a solid $0.43 wager) is on this recall resulting in 2 things:

A) Manual Trims no longer being offered in the gladiator. This may change when the speculated-but-not-yet-seen Gladiator PHEV comes out, but I think the price will go up to include a more expensive clutch setup, and I believe that best case this will only lead to the Rubicon keeping the stick- the Sport models are going to be out of luck. The PHEV existing at this point will allow for the MPG's to be lower on the manual trim level while having the overall model/ fleet MPGs stay the same or go up due to the PHEV offsetting the differences. This is also why I don't think Manual Wranglers will meet the same fate- there are a whole lot of Wrangler PHEV's being sold, so a minimal amount of manual Wranglers with reduced efficiency won't hurt their numbers.

B) A severe handicapping of existing models, and a "so sorry, thanks for playing" to all of those who are going to be impacted by the reduced output of the engine. Gladiator drivers presumably need more towing/payload capability, and handicapping the output on a Wrangler is going to hurt the average Wrangler driver less than the Gladiator driver who might currently have the proper tool for the jobs they do with their truck, but won't after the updates take place. This is the option that is going to REALLY piss off a lot of people.

I kind of think option B could also turn into a "I know what I've got!" situation and Manual Sport Gladiators become unicorns that everyone wants. But that isn't immediate, and a lot of people are going to get burnt bad until then.

 

[AustinL911]

The general process for recall issues within the automotive industry:

The first thing they will do is attempt to mitigate issues via a firmware adjustment. If that doesn't work, they will move to modifying existing hardware. If that doesn't work, they will replace hardware with new parts.

In any case, though, there are a lot of considerations they will go through before they replace the OEM hardware that is already in the vehicles. Stellantis has given the EPA certain figures for the fleet, and they don't want to stray too far away from those. Nor do they want to write off 8 hours of labor for each impacted Gladiator and Wrangler as well as purchase or manufacture however many thousands of new systems it would take do a recall of that size.

Keep in mind: changes to something like the clutch could foreseeably impact mileage figures, and it may be easier and cheaper to handicap the engine's output via an ECU update to remain in line with the EPA figures they have provided than it is to put new hardware in, even though that is going to put the existing manual trucks on the streets down to borderline laughable performance numbers.

Knowing all of that, my money (that's a solid $0.43 wager) is on this recall resulting in 2 things:

A) Manual Trims no longer being offered in the gladiator. This may change when the speculated-but-not-yet-seen Gladiator PHEV comes out, but I think the price will go up to include a more expensive clutch setup, and I believe that best case this will only lead to the Rubicon keeping the stick- the Sport models are going to be out of luck. The PHEV existing at this point will allow for the MPG's to be lower on the manual trim level while having the overall model/ fleet MPGs stay the same or go up due to the PHEV offsetting the differences. This is also why I don't think Manual Wranglers will meet the same fate- there are a whole lot of Wrangler PHEV's being sold, so a minimal amount of manual Wranglers with reduced efficiency won't hurt their numbers.

B) A severe handicapping of existing models, and a "so sorry, thanks for playing" to all of those who are going to be impacted by the reduced output of the engine. Gladiator drivers presumably need more towing/payload capability, and handicapping the output on a Wrangler is going to hurt the average Wrangler driver less than the Gladiator driver who might currently have the proper tool for the jobs they do with their truck, but won't after the updates take place. This is the option that is going to REALLY piss off a lot of people.

I kind of think option B could also turn into a "I know what I've got!" situation and Manual Sport Gladiators become unicorns that everyone wants. But that isn't immediate, and a lot of people are going to get burnt bad until then.

 

[Raven65]

It's a shame that Jeep half-assed the manual in the JL/JT. It's got a crap clutch, crap shift linkage, and crap gear ratios... they just completely screwed the pooch with it. It almost makes you wonder if it wasn't on purpose to drive people away from manuals so that they'd have an excuse to do away with them. It's working. I've driven nothing but manuals ever since I started driving in 1981 - and I fully intended to buy a manual transmission Gladiator when I bought mine last year - until I read about how crappy the manuals were... and ended up buying my first automatic transmission ever (actually, I have bought them before - but they were my wife's vehicles... but I digress). Anyway... it just shouldn't be that hard to spec an appropriately-strong transmission and clutch for any given vehicle based on its weight, engine torque, expected use, etc... it's not like this is new technology! It was just an afterthought... and it shows.

 

[hjdca]

It's a shame that Jeep half-assed the manual in the JL/JT. It's got a crap clutch, crap shift linkage, and crap gear ratios... they just completely screwed the pooch with it. It almost makes you wonder if it wasn't on purpose to drive people away from manuals so that they'd have an excuse to do away with them. It's working. I've driven nothing but manuals ever since I started driving in 1981 - and I fully intended to buy a manual transmission Gladiator when I bought mine last year - until I read about how crappy the manuals were... and ended up buying my first automatic transmission ever (actually, I have bought them before - but they were my wife's vehicles... but I digress). Anyway... it just shouldn't be that hard to spec an appropriately-strong transmission and clutch for any given vehicle based on its weight, engine torque, expected use, etc... it's not like this is new technology! It was just an afterthought... and it shows.

Actually, I feel lucky to have a JTR Manual with 37 inch tires. I had to change the gears anyway with 37s, and the 5:13 gears make a huge difference with the clutch and take off. I have almost 60K miles now with lots of off-road and badge of honor trails and I love the truck. The clutch is fine so far. I am a stick shift, old school guy, and it's like having an old school stick shift 4x4 truck with springs, lockers, good mileage, no gas smell, 4:1 transfer case, and modern conveniences. Rock Crawling with this truck is so fun ! I love the Tazer with the "Rock Crawl" mode control with you thumb - You can lock all 4 disk brakes with your thumb and use your 2 feet to work the clutch and gas when you are top of a boulder. I actually never thought I would able to get this in this day and age. Believe it or not, there are actually people like me out there that feel super happy and lucky to have a stick shift JTR. With the manual JTR, you are constantly learning new tricks for Rock Crawling and other fun off-road activities. For me, It is more about the challenge and fun than it is - which is the better transmission.

 

[Raven65]

Actually, I feel lucky to have a JTR Manual with 37 inch tires. I had to change the gears anyway with 37s, and the 5:13 gears make a huge difference with the clutch and take off. I have almost 60K miles now with lots of off-road and badge of honor trails and I love the truck. The clutch is fine so far. I am a stick shift, old school guy, and it's like having an old school stick shift 4x4 truck with springs, lockers, good mileage, no gas smell, 4:1 transfer case, and modern conveniences. Rock Crawling with this truck is so fun ! I love the Tazer with the "Rock Crawl" mode control with you thumb - You can lock all 4 disk brakes with your thumb and use your 2 feet to work the clutch and gas when you are top of a boulder. I actually never thought I would able to get this in this day and age. Believe it or not, there are actually people like me out there that feel super happy and lucky to have a stick shift JTR. With the manual JTR, you are constantly learning new tricks for Rock Crawling and other fun off-road activities. For me, It is more about the challenge and fun than it is - which is the better transmission.

That’s great… I’m glad you like it. Doesn’t change the fact that it’s a lousy effort. Imagine how much more you’d enjoy it if the clutch/transmission was actually GOOD.

 

[Zachattack50]

Instock was the only factor for me on cf over act. Both are a massive upgrade over factory.

 

[firemedic2714]

Call me weird, but even with all the recalls, senseless gear ratios (the ones between gears), subpar tow rating, et cetera, I'd still buy another 6-speed. Most of these are easy to get used to. My JTR has almost 50,000 miles (stock tires and suspension) and I have yet to trip the "hot clutch" mode. That's with reversing a few trailers uphill and lots of wheeling and rock crawling. I'm not saying Jeep shouldn't have done a better job with R&D, but the knowledge of how to properly drive a vehicle with a manual transmission (when to shift up and down, neutral at stoplights, keeping your left foot from "resting" on the clutch while in gear, and especially, avoiding riding the clutch) is essential to living with my Jeep. JMO.

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