Towing concerns. What are you towing at what max?

[flsupraguy]

Yeah here you go.



I towed 6,300 with my old Max Tow model and it did a great job. But, it shifted a lot more which is common for a gas engine. That's why I went diesel this time. It cruises in overdrive.

I think the key to towing with any truck but especially a midsize is to load the trailer evenly and use trailer brakes, which you already know and anybody who tows should. But it's amazing how often I see people do it all wrong and then blame the truck.

I LOVE your videos! I've been subbing for a long time but forgot about that one. My dilemma is the following. I want the diesel but I don't think it offers enough payload or towing for my needs. My trailer is 3500 and race car plus misc is gonna be another 3500 plus. I have a weight dist hitch and brake controller and trailer brakes. I also want a manual but there is no way a manual gladiator can safely tow anywhere near my needs. I could always but a diesel and manual swap it lol

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[WXman]

I LOVE your videos! I've been subbing for a long time but forgot about that one. My dilemma is the following. I want the diesel but I don't think it offers enough payload or towing for my needs. My trailer is 3500 and race car plus misc is gonna be another 3500 plus. I have a weight dist hitch and brake controller and trailer brakes. I also want a manual but there is no way a manual gladiator can safely tow anywhere near my needs. I could always but a diesel and manual swap it lol

Yep I understand. Payload is what gets us. With 7,000 lbs. of trailer, you should be in the 800-1,000 lb. tongue weight range. So if there's just two people in the truck, you should be OK on payload. The maximum tongue weight rating on the Max Tow is 765 lbs. I think but a class IV hitch is typically rated to be fine up to 1,000 lbs. of tongue weight, so technically I'd say you're OK there too. I'm doing the same with my trailer.

It will max the truck out, but they do use the SAE J2807 method to rate these trucks so my feeling is that as long as you use weight dist and sway control and drive safe it should be OK.

The diesel is a bit of an odd bird. Mechanically it's very similar to a Max Tow. It's got heavy duty coils, iron steering gear, iron steering knuckles, HD axles, etc. It's actually got a beefier and more robust transmission than the Max Tow gets. But the weight means the payload is lower on paper. So it's one of those situations where on paper it has less ability to tow, but in practicality it has more ability to tow.

 

[flsupraguy]

Yep I understand. Payload is what gets us. With 7,000 lbs. of trailer, you should be in the 800-1,000 lb. tongue weight range. So if there's just two people in the truck, you should be OK on payload. The maximum tongue weight rating on the Max Tow is 765 lbs. I think but a class IV hitch is typically rated to be fine up to 1,000 lbs. of tongue weight, so technically I'd say you're OK there too. I'm doing the same with my trailer.

It will max the truck out, but they do use the SAE J2807 method to rate these trucks so my feeling is that as long as you use weight dist and sway control and drive safe it should be OK.

The diesel is a bit of an odd bird. Mechanically it's very similar to a Max Tow. It's got heavy duty coils, iron steering gear, iron steering knuckles, HD axles, etc. It's actually got a beefier and more robust transmission than the Max Tow gets. But the weight means the payload is lower on paper. So it's one of those situations where on paper it has less ability to tow, but in practicality it has more ability to tow.

You a make a lot of sense. I'm concerned about overheating issues towing (even on flat ground) in Florida at the max. Im glad to see you haven't experienced overheating issues like others have. Perhaps because you have relatively low elevation?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Yep I understand. Payload is what gets us. With 7,000 lbs. of trailer, you should be in the 800-1,000 lb. tongue weight range. So if there's just two people in the truck, you should be OK on payload. The maximum tongue weight rating on the Max Tow is 765 lbs. I think but a class IV hitch is typically rated to be fine up to 1,000 lbs. of tongue weight, so technically I'd say you're OK there too. I'm doing the same with my trailer.

It will max the truck out, but they do use the SAE J2807 method to rate these trucks so my feeling is that as long as you use weight dist and sway control and drive safe it should be OK.

The diesel is a bit of an odd bird. Mechanically it's very similar to a Max Tow. It's got heavy duty coils, iron steering gear, iron steering knuckles, HD axles, etc. It's actually got a beefier and more robust transmission than the Max Tow gets. But the weight means the payload is lower on paper. So it's one of those situations where on paper it has less ability to tow, but in practicality it has more ability to tow.

The hitches used are only rated up to something like 765 pounds or so. The class used should be much more, but if you look up the hitch and then look up the specs, these hitches are rated lower than others in their class.

I can't find the link I had last month, but a couple of the MOPAR places selling these receivers also listed maximum tongue weight of 765. It was in the published specs for the receiver. Apparently they are either not using a true IV or they are stating that because that's all the truck will handle where these are mounted. Doesn't matter what the receiver will do if the truck won't. Weakest link.
Compared to the Curt receiver I put on my little SX4, the mounting points on these are weak.

 

[Lakelife36]

Yep I understand. Payload is what gets us. With 7,000 lbs. of trailer, you should be in the 800-1,000 lb. tongue weight range. So if there's just two people in the truck, you should be OK on payload. The maximum tongue weight rating on the Max Tow is 765 lbs. I think but a class IV hitch is typically rated to be fine up to 1,000 lbs. of tongue weight, so technically I'd say you're OK there too. I'm doing the same with my trailer.

It will max the truck out, but they do use the SAE J2807 method to rate these trucks so my feeling is that as long as you use weight dist and sway control and drive safe it should be OK.

The diesel is a bit of an odd bird. Mechanically it's very similar to a Max Tow. It's got heavy duty coils, iron steering gear, iron steering knuckles, HD axles, etc. It's actually got a beefier and more robust transmission than the Max Tow gets. But the weight means the payload is lower on paper. So it's one of those situations where on paper it has less ability to tow, but in practicality it has more ability to tow.

Hi all, new member here. I've crunched plenty of numbers on towing with SUVs and small trucks, and when you're up at your tow cap then it's GCWR that'll govern how much weight you can put in, not GVWR. As your trailer weight decreases and your payload increases, GVWR you'll hit a point where GVWR starts to govern instead. This is assuming a 10% (ish) tongue weight - if it's much higher then you may get close to GVWR super fast.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Hi all, new member here. I've crunched plenty of numbers on towing with SUVs and small trucks, and when you're up at your tow cap then it's GCWR that'll govern how much weight you can put in, not GVWR. As your trailer weight decreases and your payload increases, GVWR you'll hit a point where GVWR starts to govern instead. This is assuming a 10% (ish) tongue weight - if it's much higher then you may get close to GVWR super fast.

There's an EXCELLENT, I mean the guy should get paid for his video - video on YT that touches on how quite often, it's PAYLOAD that gets you before your towing capacity. Tongue weight of a 7,000 pound trailer is at minimum 700 pounds - even at only 12% it's about 840 pounds. And a weight distributing hitch doesn't take away from that in any real way. You can't say that my tongue weight of 840 is now 50 pounds less because of a WDH - the impact isn't even worth calculating.

 

[WXman]

Yeah usually this hinges upon one question: is your family going with you or will you be alone?

A family or 4 or 5 people can easily go 800 lbs. That will leave most midsize trucks with 200 to 400 lbs. of remaining payload. Since most trailers are in the 15% range with their weight on the tongue, that basically means your towing capacity instantly gets smashed down to just 2,000 to 3,000 lbs.

That's why I always say that payload is the #1 factor. It's frequently the number you'll max out first. Obviously tire capacity, axle capacity, GCWR, etc. all matter, but if you're out of payload before you get there it's a moot point.

 

[Lakelife36]

There's an EXCELLENT, I mean the guy should get paid for his video - video on YT that touches on how quite often, it's PAYLOAD that gets you before your towing capacity. Tongue weight of a 7,000 pound trailer is at minimum 700 pounds - even at only 12% it's about 840 pounds. And a weight distributing hitch doesn't take away from that in any real way. You can't say that my tongue weight of 840 is now 50 pounds less because of a WDH - the impact isn't even worth calculating.

Certainly it's your payload that gets you to GVWR before you get GCWR if you have any kind of cargo. Remember to tow the stated max weight you can only have 300lbs in the truck, which is supposed to be two people. I don't know many couples who only add up to 300lbs though. That's why GCWR governs at max trailer/min payload, and GVWR governs even at mid trailer/mid payload.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Certainly it's your payload that gets you to GVWR before you get GCWR if you have any kind of cargo. Remember to tow the stated max weight you can only have 300lbs in the truck, which is supposed to be two people. I don't know many couples who only add up to 300lbs though. That's why GCWR governs at max trailer/min payload, and GVWR governs even at mid trailer/mid payload.

A lot depends on the trailer. Mine will be 4800 pounds, tongue weight 480-500. Add 150 for me (reality is 200 for me) and I still have room.

If I max out towing at 6,000 I have 600 pounds tongue weight and add me at "150" that adds up to 750. Still 250 to go and I've maxed out my towing according to the book.
So I can bring back a lot of stuff from swap meets while towing my car hauler and be ok. (although the truck will likely struggle, I won't be maxing out any numbers).

Yeah, been down this road for over 40 years - this will be the first truck I'll need to be more aware of what it can handle realistically than the numbers on the door jamb or in the book.

 

[eaglerugby04]

The hitches used are only rated up to something like 765 pounds or so. The class used should be much more, but if you look up the hitch and then look up the specs, these hitches are rated lower than others in their class.

I can't find the link I had last month, but a couple of the MOPAR places selling these receivers also listed maximum tongue weight of 765. It was in the published specs for the receiver. Apparently they are either not using a true IV or they are stating that because that's all the truck will handle where these are mounted. Doesn't matter what the receiver will do if the truck won't. Weakest link.
Compared to the Curt receiver I put on my little SX4, the mounting points on these are weak.

Thats scary if thats true. The mopar site listed some forum member's JTs tow ratings at 8k and up at one point. How could they calculate that if the hitch maxes out so low? Also it seems kind of unsafe for them to market even what they do if that is the hitch max. Especially things like travel trailers that tend to be hitch heavy

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Thats scary if thats true. The mopar site listed some forum member's JTs tow ratings at 8k and up at one point. How could they calculate that if the hitch maxes out so low? Also it seems kind of unsafe for them to market even what they do if that is the hitch max. Especially things like travel trailers that tend to be hitch heavy

The mopar site was full of bovine excrement. Piggy poo, whatever. It was waaay out there. JeepCares even looked into it and it was quickly modified and that part was removed.
Check the hitch or tongue weight max in the owner manual - if you buy one of the MOPAR hitches - the EXACT same part number as our trucks have on them, some of them state that max tongue weight.
Tongue weight is also "way back there" compared to anything else you'd put in the truck -people, a load of sand for the kids, landscape block, etc. - so there's a heck of a lot of leverage that weight back there has. Putting 800 pounds on the ball mount is a lot different than 800 pounds over the axles.

 

[eaglerugby04]

The mopar site was full of bovine excrement. Piggy poo, whatever. It was waaay out there. JeepCares even looked into it and it was quickly modified and that part was removed.
Check the hitch or tongue weight max in the owner manual - if you buy one of the MOPAR hitches - the EXACT same part number as our trucks have on them, some of them state that max tongue weight.
Tongue weight is also "way back there" compared to anything else you'd put in the truck -people, a load of sand for the kids, landscape block, etc. - so there's a heck of a lot of leverage that weight back there has. Putting 800 pounds on the ball mount is a lot different than 800 pounds over the axles.

Didn't realize they removed that. I figured they had done that based on options since the numbers used in this you shared were probably worst case for that trim based on options.

I know it has a big difference because it hangs back there, do you think they have some extra give in these or are they really this low? I think back to a video where big truck big rv went around and checked the tounge weight on new travel trailers and they made absolutly no sense compared to the stickers on the side even. You could easily be within other specs and accidently exceed this one unknowinly. I also find it interesting they don't have a with WDH number like some trucks do.

 

[70deuce]

4000lbs total. Funny that the Jeep and trailer weight are within a few pounds of each other. 450 measured at hitch. Played with the chock placement on the trailer to get that hitch weight. At 65 tows like a dream. No WDH. Brakes both trailer axles. That’s a 1944 Willys MB on the trailer.

 

[Bobzdar]

The trucks with tow package all have the same hitch, so it's actually just 10% of the tow rating. Has nothing to do with the hitch itself, but that they want 10% of the trailer weight on the tongue at max weight. You'll need a WD hitch to achieve this properly, and weigh on scales to verify. To wit, I have a 25' airstream, 5600lbs. Should be no problem with 7000lb tow rating except the tongue weight is 860lbs. So I have to use 1000lb bars and tension them properly to get the weight distributed evenly, leaves me with about 600lbs on the truck axles and at 1150lbs payload, capacity of around 500lbs in the truck and I have to make sure I don't load a bunch of cargo in the front of the trailer. Tows perfectly though.

Tow rating on all of the higher trims is cooling limited, that's why diesel is 6000lbs instead of 7000+, intercooler reduces the ability to shed heat.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The trucks with tow package all have the same hitch, so it's actually just 10% of the tow rating. Has nothing to do with the hitch itself, but that they want 10% of the trailer weight on the tongue at max weight. You'll need a WD hitch to achieve this properly, and weigh on scales to verify. To wit, I have a 25' airstream, 5600lbs. Should be no problem with 7000lb tow rating except the tongue weight is 860lbs. So I have to use 1000lb bars and tension them properly to get the weight distributed evenly, leaves me with about 600lbs on the truck axles and at 1150lbs payload, capacity of around 500lbs in the truck and I have to make sure I don't load a bunch of cargo in the front of the trailer. Tows perfectly though.

Tow rating on all of the higher trims is cooling limited, that's why diesel is 6000lbs instead of 7000+, intercooler reduces the ability to shed heat.

You are still exceeding the tongue weight limit, then.

If a truck is limited to 765 pound tongue weight, then your tongue should not weigh over 765 pounds no matter what. It's a myth that a WDH "reduces tongue weight".

WDH does not reduce tongue weight - so if that thing it limited to 765, you can't tow with a 900 pound tongue weight just because it's a WDH.

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