Tune for MPG

[USMC-SSGT]

I’ve read hours of stuff here from pedal commanders to pulsars to livernois and everywhere in between. Still need a little help.

I’m a little unique in that I’d like more MPG and couldn’t care less about more HP, Torque, pedal response etc. I know it’s a jeep and I’ve done everything possible to make it worse (lift, tires, stubby etc.) I am just looking for a gain, not a miracle.

I already am great at step 1: being easy on the skinny pedal. I seldom exceed 4K rpm unless required to merge etc.

Here is where it gets confusing for me- pulsar seems obvious that it plugs into the computer and does it’s thing. How are the preferences changed such as “performance” vs “eco” type changes? Does the pulsar realize any changes in MPG at all? This one is honestly bottom of my list. It’s my daily driver and I don’t want to risk no starts or crawl mode. To me, even one occurrence negates any single positive.

Livernois- I gather you remove your “computer” and send it to them. They then do their work and send it back to you. From here you still need to load the different tunes on it? How is this accomplished? How do I go about changing between performance and eco? Or 91 octane and 87 or the other options out there? This one seems to be the best and most reliable option with the exception of warranty (unless you buy a second ECU.)

Next up, all these options. They all seem to run in the not quite a grand column. Is there any real MPG increase in these tunes? Is it negligible at best or are we talking average of 15mpg to average of 17.5?

I will have an intake (I know, useless as a football bat) and a corsa exhaust if those make any difference in the tune recipe.

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[USMC-SSGT]

So…. Anyone with a pulsar or Livernois tune have any input other than limp mode reports?

 

[RavensEyeOffroad]

To be honest if you even mention poor mpg or how to get better mpg most folks just crap on you.
"gO BuY a PrIuS" etc

 

[SteveInOrlando]

There is a thread on a guy that did exactly what you are talking, but I believe he used HP Tuners and I don't know that he shared his tune.

This system is a bear to tune. The computer controls almost everything. Actually throttle pedal input determines very little on how this vehicle drives. Throttle pedal tells it you want to go faster or slower, everything else is controlled by the computer. It calculates demanded torque and adjusts actual throttle position to gain that. You are not directly adjusting applied throttle.

If you aren't a very proficient tuner, who is familiar with Dodge throttle model, don't pick this to learn on.

Sorry, I am sure this is little to no help. The truth is, everything I have seen advertised talks about HP not MPG.

 

[USMC-SSGT]

There is a thread on a guy that did exactly what you are talking, but I believe he used HP Tuners and I don't know that he shared his tune.

This system is a bear to tune. The computer controls almost everything. Actually throttle pedal input determines very little on how this vehicle drives. Throttle pedal tells it you want to go faster or slower, everything else is controlled by the computer. It calculates demanded torque and adjusts actual throttle position to gain that. You are not directly adjusting applied throttle.

If you aren't a very proficient tuner, who is familiar with Dodge throttle model, don't pick this to learn on.

Sorry, I am sure this is little to no help. The truth is, everything I have seen advertised talks about HP not MPG.

1: completely agree with the previous post about Mpg being a red hot button on this forum. I get that but it doesn’t stop us from going from 35” to 37” or adding 1/2” spacers or any other numerous things to take something functional and make it 1% better/cooler/more functional. Simply saying if I average 14mpg, but there was a tune/intake/exhaust/combo that got me to 15, why not?

2: Mechanic friend owns an HP tuner and said we could dive in. Was hesitant because:
A: I’ve heard the ECU is locked which is the reason we send it out and
B: as you mentioned, this really gets into no man’s land unless they are an absolute PRO. One parameter even slightly off and you toast your engine….with no warranty.

3: I hear you about all the talk is on TQ and HP. It’s so much simpler to add those if you aren’t caring about MPG. Again, my mpg is my own doing with my build… but consider it a fun hobby to restore some back.

 

[poole34]

1: completely agree with the previous post about Mpg being a red hot button on this forum. I get that but it doesn’t stop us from going from 35” to 37” or adding 1/2” spacers or any other numerous things to take something functional and make it 1% better/cooler/more functional. Simply saying if I average 14mpg, but there was a tune/intake/exhaust/combo that got me to 15, why not?

2: Mechanic friend owns an HP tuner and said we could dive in. Was hesitant because:
A: I’ve heard the ECU is locked which is the reason we send it out and
B: as you mentioned, this really gets into no man’s land unless they are an absolute PRO. One parameter even slightly off and you toast your engine….with no warranty.

3: I hear you about all the talk is on TQ and HP. It’s so much simpler to add those if you aren’t caring about MPG. Again, my mpg is my own doing with my build… but consider it a fun hobby to restore some back.

I read the forums from time to time but never post anything. Don't know if this helps you USMC-SSGT but it seems I have done a few of the mods you are considering. I have 35 inch tires, 2 inch Mopar lift, the newest version of the pulsar, banks cold air intake, and the MMX 80mm throttle body. The pulsar has been error free for me and seems to work best in tow mode for what I do. The 80mm throttle body was just installed this week and I can say it has made a big difference. I commute 70 miles in the mountains of Virginia. I would normally stay in 6 most of the time running 67mph and was averaging 13 to 15 miles per gallon per the onboard computer with all the mods except the 80mm throttle body. Since adding the throttle body the Jeep just feels more powerful. I have only ran it a week but I am now holding 7th gear and see 8th on flat roads. My miles per gallon has also increased. I ended the week with 18 miles per gallon on the interstate, after driving around town a lot this weekend in stop and go traffic I am only down to 16.2 when normally I would be down to around 13 to 14. I will eventually do a regear but that will be a little farther down the road. I still have my factory 32 inch mud terrain tires and rims and have considered running them for a week and see what miles per gallon I get but I just like the look of the 35's. This just my experience hope it helps you in your decision making of what to mod. next.

 

[SteveInOrlando]

1: completely agree with the previous post about Mpg being a red hot button on this forum. I get that but it doesn’t stop us from going from 35” to 37” or adding 1/2” spacers or any other numerous things to take something functional and make it 1% better/cooler/more functional. Simply saying if I average 14mpg, but there was a tune/intake/exhaust/combo that got me to 15, why not?

2: Mechanic friend owns an HP tuner and said we could dive in. Was hesitant because:
A: I’ve heard the ECU is locked which is the reason we send it out and
B: as you mentioned, this really gets into no man’s land unless they are an absolute PRO. One parameter even slightly off and you toast your engine….with no warranty.

3: I hear you about all the talk is on TQ and HP. It’s so much simpler to add those if you aren’t caring about MPG. Again, my mpg is my own doing with my build… but consider it a fun hobby to restore some back.

Yes, to use an HP tuner, you would need to send the ECM to HP Tuners to get it unlocked, or buy one from them already unlocked.

If you do the latter, you will need to calibrate, Brake pedal, Gas pedal, and Cams once you get the new ECM. There are fairly simple procedures in the software to do it. Fairly.

The other thing you will need is an AFR gauge to keep an eye on the air fuel ratio while developing the tune. If you look at the Magnuson thread you can see suggestions for that.

Sorry, I lost my bookmarked link where the one guy talked through long term and short term fuel management. It is either on this forum, or the wrangler forum. It might have been @DAVECS1 , I just don't remember. He is also the guy that does the tunes a lot of us are using for the Magnuson Superchargers.

 

[USMC-SSGT]

I read the forums from time to time but never post anything. Don't know if this helps you USMC-SSGT but it seems I have done a few of the mods you are considering. I have 35 inch tires, 2 inch Mopar lift, the newest version of the pulsar, banks cold air intake, and the MMX 80mm throttle body. The pulsar has been error free for me and seems to work best in tow mode for what I do. The 80mm throttle body was just installed this week and I can say it has made a big difference. I commute 70 miles in the mountains of Virginia. I would normally stay in 6 most of the time running 67mph and was averaging 13 to 15 miles per gallon per the onboard computer with all the mods except the 80mm throttle body. Since adding the throttle body the Jeep just feels more powerful. I have only ran it a week but I am now holding 7th gear and see 8th on flat roads. My miles per gallon has also increased. I ended the week with 18 miles per gallon on the interstate, after driving around town a lot this weekend in stop and go traffic I am only down to 16.2 when normally I would be down to around 13 to 14. I will eventually do a regear but that will be a little farther down the road. I still have my factory 32 inch mud terrain tires and rims and have considered running them for a week and see what miles per gallon I get but I just like the look of the 35's. This just my experience hope it helps you in your decision making of what to mod. next.

@poole34 this is some good real world feedback. Is this the throttle body that you went with?

https://www.mmx4x4.com/p-29-2018-20...ntastar-v6-intake-manifold-kit-by-mmx4x4.aspx

Question- does the intake direct bolt right back into place on that? I have a brand new S&B in a box but hadn’t planned to install it. Also have a full corsa exhaust in the mail. Independently I wasn’t sure, but intake through throttle body through exhaust could be worth the effort since they are all symbiotic.

Interesting to hear that it made such a difference. Surprising that prior with the intake and a pulsar tune the MPG were down so low with what felt like minimal to not change. Only after adding the throttle body did you notice a change. Curious now If I go that route if I really should do something like the pulsar as well to finish the puzzle. So me (forum) a favor If you don’t mind and keep us updated. My truck setup like yours is a dog on 3.73 at highway speeds. 6th gear is the norm and 7th coasting on the flats basically. 8th is reserved for special occasions and holidays. My gear appointment can’t come soon enough.

 

[USMC-SSGT]

@SteveInOrlando
That’s great stuff thank you. The supercharger guys really are the go to folks for the tune since it’s vital to your whole project.

Tempted to go Livernois because it’s turn key, but it’s still limiting. HP tuner options honestly scare me. Getting in there and freely changing things seems like a recipe for trouble. Especially when I’ve never so much as touched on or done anything of the sort.

HOWEVER- it also seems like the best option. Like anything I’ve done, I’d never done it before, until I had. Some of those things I got damn good at too over time.
-talk to people like you
-google
-read everything I can find
-youtube
-subject matter experts
-dip my toe in the water
-success (or blown motor)

 

[poole34]

@poole34 this is some good real world feedback. Is this the throttle body that you went with?

https://www.mmx4x4.com/p-29-2018-20...ntastar-v6-intake-manifold-kit-by-mmx4x4.aspx

Question- does the intake direct bolt right back into place on that? I have a brand new S&B in a box but hadn’t planned to install it. Also have a full corsa exhaust in the mail. Independently I wasn’t sure, but intake through throttle body through exhaust could be worth the effort since they are all symbiotic.

Interesting to hear that it made such a difference. Surprising that prior with the intake and a pulsar tune the MPG were down so low with what felt like minimal to not change. Only after adding the throttle body did you notice a change. Curious now If I go that route if I really should do something like the pulsar as well to finish the puzzle. So me (forum) a favor If you don’t mind and keep us updated. My truck setup like yours is a dog on 3.73 at highway speeds. 6th gear is the norm and 7th coasting on the flats basically. 8th is reserved for special occasions and holidays. My gear appointment can’t come soon enough.

That is the throttle body I ordered. Luckily their shop is only about an hour away from me and I received it in one day. As far as the transition from the air intake to the throttle body itself, I had to use a hairdryer to heat the rubber and push pretty hard but I was able to get it to fit. Not sure how the SB transition piece is but if its similar to the Banks it should work. I will say I am very pleased with the throttle body. I also feel the pulsar made a difference. I am running Dick Cepek Trail Country EXP which are 62 pounds a piece so i think that really hurts the 3.73 gearing. My thoughts were if I could increase the HP and torque it may make a difference. I have been looking at exhausts, I want to go with a 3 inch pipe but I also dont want to increase the sound that much.

 

[dcmdon]

I remember DaveCS saying that at partial throttle the stock tune aggressively stays stoichiometric.

Which means there isn't much to gain if A:F is already stoich. Maybe you can tweak ignition timing a bit.

 

[BAT]

Only thing I have seen so far that really makes any difference is bring it back to stock, tires, etc and you will get your MPG back. I have tried to add/change very little on it since its my DD along with Kayak/trail transport. Seems to me the biggest hit came with the tire change. Moving from stock to Rubi Take off tires/rims put most of the hit on me. If gas keeps going up I might have to find some sort of change

 

[dcmdon]

There are 3 ways to improve fuel economy.

1) Make changes that allow the engine to put out a given amount of power more efficiently.
Your choice here is really just a tune.

2) Make changes so that your vehicle requires less power to move down the road and accelerate.

A. Reduce weight - this impacts fuel use during acceleration mostly. Off the top of my head it would include smaller, lighter wheels and tires, plastic bumpers, not hauling crap around with you in the bed etc.​

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B. Improve aerodynamics.​

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i. Reduce Frontal area - this would involve lowering the vehicle, smaller mirrors, wheels that tuck the tires into the fenders, etc.​

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ii. Improve the efficiency of the shape - toneau cover (if it works, I really don't know) , installing air dams between the bumper and the fenders.​

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3) Change your driving style -

A. Think when you drive. Predict traffic patterns. I've found that if I pretend that I have a trailer on the back and have greatly reduced braking ability, I look further down the road and do a better job of predicting what traffic will do. This allows me to coast more and brake less.​

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Google and read up on hypermiling techniques. Some of the techniques will make you a nuisance on the road. But others can be used without much impact on average speed or comfort.​

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B. Accelerate more efficiently. That means accelerating moderately, possibly using the manual mode to force early up shifts.​

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C. Drive slower on the highway. Remember that aerodynamic drag increases as a square function of speed. So driving 25% faster means that drag goes up by 56%.​

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Or put another way, driving 75 mph rather than 65 mph creates 33% more drag. Since the vast majority of the total drag a vehicle like a jeep experiences is aerodynamic, you should expect to use about 30% more fuel for a given distance at 75 mph than at 65 mph.​

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[MyRight]

Other than being easy on the pedal, I believe the biggest change you can make to get better MPG is to reduce your driving speed when on the freeway/interstate.

I have made it a point that there is no need for me to be in a hurry, no matter where I go.
It's a mindset change, as I've always had some sort of sports car in the past and was heavy on the pedal. It is fun to drive fast and pass other vehicles.
Now, I just putt along, never taking my speed over 70. I pass a few semis along the way, but usually remain in the right lane and get to watch all of the anxious, impatient drivers trying to get ahead.
My MPG is among the highest I've seen using the fuelly app.

 

[steveorama]

I might have missed it mentioned, but what gearing are you running currently? If you have increased your tire size, you may easily be able to get that 1 extra MPG back you are looking for by running a different gear ratio. This is really dependent on your driving though. Are you more city or highway?

Since our gas engines our naturally aspirated I'm not a big believer personally in ECM tuning or modules that claim a lot more than fractions in anything. If you had a turbo or super charger that changes a lot of what can be tuned and the desired outcome.

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