Uconnect and insurance driving apps

[JCappy]

Now see, this is where it would be nice if using one of these insurance tracking apps/plug-ins would "protect" the insured by showing to a court that the insured wasn't at fault. Maybe they do or can but it would be nice to know. Conveniently, the insurance companies don't advertise how they can "protect" you.

Honestly, it's stories like this that really make me consider getting the dashcam. I hear lots of stories how those devices get people out of jams but none about the insurance company trackers...

Just do it, you'll be glad you have it. I had a front and rear dash cam on my last vehicle and it was one of the first things I installed on my gladiator. Has a SD card and records on a loop so no need to look at anything unless there is an incident. I used the footage on my last vehicle when a deer ran out and hit my drivers bedside, It was at 5 a.m. and the A pillar blocked my vision but the camera saw everything.
I use my Uconnect to make calls from my contact list and have not noticed getting dinged on my app. I could always turn off my Bluetooth on my phone and the device would not know what I was doing on my phone. I always drive my vehicle but if I was ever a passenger I would just turn off the Bluetooth before using my phone so the app wouldn't think I was driving while being distracted. My device is vehicle specific and so being in another vehicle wouldn't matter. I could use it all I want.

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[HooliganActual]

You’re at the mercy of the quality or lack there of of some software engineers code. How the data gets parsed, what assumptions are baked into the algorithms, the thresholds for what is considered unsafe driving, how the data is aggregated and simple bugs all contribute to how well (accurately) the system works.

Amen brother.

In fairness, I am asking these questions about the Insurance app/plug-ins because I truly know nothing about them and have avoided knowing anything about them because I am a bit Big Brother averse. I don't want to automatically naysay their value but I am struggling to satisfy a risk/benefit analysis in their favor.

The one scenario that I can't "get past" is the impact of other drivers on my insurance rates as these apps/plug-ins interpret them:

• Driving through a parking lot and someone backing out without looking causing me to slam on my brakes
• Defensive actions I may need to take (swerving, braking) due to the actions of drivers, pedestrians, cyclists that did not have right of way

In essence, as I am out daily driving I encounter numerous times where I have to react to something another person has done and I can't fathom to understand how those incidents won't be seen by the apps/plug-ins as a negative against me but those devices can not possibly know that I was in the right of way and my reactions were justified. You know, back in the 70's when I was learning to drive, I was taught something that has stuck with me ever since: I was told, "If another driver has to apply their brakes because of you, then you have done something wrong".

Again, I am not trying to cr@p on what may be a good process; I am really trying to understand whether these will have more benefit or harm to me in the long run.

Wolfie, thanks for your rant. I'm right there with you. I am trying to keep an open mind but I am struggling to, hence my more weighty consideration of a camera. It may not lower my rates, but it would certainly be my defense in a scenario where the other person is at fault.

 

[HooliganActual]

Just do it, you'll be glad you have it. I had a front and rear dash cam on my last vehicle and it was one of the first things I installed on my gladiator. Has a SD card and records on a loop so no need to look at anything unless there is an incident. I used the footage on my last vehicle when a deer ran out and hit my drivers bedside, It was at 5 a.m. and the A pillar blocked my vision but the camera saw everything.
I use my Uconnect to make calls from my contact list and have not noticed getting dinged on my app. I could always turn off my Bluetooth on my phone and the device would not know what I was doing on my phone. I always drive my vehicle but if I was ever a passenger I would just turn off the Bluetooth before using my phone so the app wouldn't think I was driving while being distracted. My device is vehicle specific and so being in another vehicle wouldn't matter. I could use it all I want.

I'm almost there on the camera...I am sooooo close. But the insurance app/plug-in is still a ways off for me to buy in. See the post right above this one...

 

[Volt0]

Another update for the MyAmFamDrive app, it tracks 3 things when on:

1. No phone use <— this is what I’m searching for clarity on
2. No speeding ( it’s looking for 10+ over )
3. No hard breaking ( anything more than 7mph change in 1sec or less, and it won’t know the difference from aggressive driving vs you avoiding running over a living being )

Now, this doesn’t seem too bad, and I’m trying to find the devil in the details ( definitions, implementations, … )

following do NOT count as phone use:

• hey siri, play Classic Rock Workout on Spotify
• Steering wheel volume up/down ( left land ), next song/station ( right hand )
• Unconnect / Waze interaction on the center console
• Uconnect, click rcvd text, it reads the text out loud over the speakers, and you verbally respond to the text using voice commands

Im still curious if it knows the difference from a vehicle, vs riding your bike around the neighborhood for exercise ( will try that soon )

 

[Volt0]

Amen brother.

In fairness, I am asking these questions about the Insurance app/plug-ins because I truly know nothing about them and have avoided knowing anything about them because I am a bit Big Brother averse. I don't want to automatically naysay their value but I am struggling to satisfy a risk/benefit analysis in their favor.

The one scenario that I can't "get past" is the impact of other drivers on my insurance rates as these apps/plug-ins interpret them:

• Driving through a parking lot and someone backing out without looking causing me to slam on my brakes
• Defensive actions I may need to take (swerving, braking) due to the actions of drivers, pedestrians, cyclists that did not have right of way

In essence, as I am out daily driving I encounter numerous times where I have to react to something another person has done and I can't fathom to understand how those incidents won't be seen by the apps/plug-ins as a negative against me but those devices can not possibly know that I was in the right of way and my reactions were justified. You know, back in the 70's when I was learning to drive, I was taught something that has stuck with me ever since: I was told, "If another driver has to apply their brakes because of you, then you have done something wrong".

Again, I am not trying to cr@p on what may be a good process; I am really trying to understand whether these will have more benefit or harm to me in the long run.

Wolfie, thanks for your rant. I'm right there with you. I am trying to keep an open mind but I am struggling to, hence my more weighty consideration of a camera. It may not lower my rates, but it would certainly be my defense in a scenario where the other person is at fault.

I understand the sentiment, and wonder if some of that can be gleaned from the app reviews and comments.

 

[HooliganActual]

I'll tell you what truly scares me is at what point the insurance companies say "In order to carry our coverage, you must use this plug-in".

I'm not a seer and I don't know how soon that is actually coming but I'm pretty sure it will be on the exact day before I give up my vehicles and start using public transportation exclusively, or walking, or riding a bicycle...

 

[DarthAWM]

I'll tell you what truly scares me is at what point the insurance companies say "In order to carry our coverage, you must use this plug-in".

I'm not a seer and I don't know how soon that is actually coming but I'm pretty sure it will be on the exact day before I give up my vehicles and start using public transportation exclusively, or walking, or riding a bicycle...

I think that day, I'll be switching to a squarebody or OBS GM dually will drill pipe bumpers and nerf bars, and body panels of at least 3 different colors

 

[Bird Dog]

I'm using the State Farm "Drive Safe & Save" for our two vehicles and it seems to save us +/- $200 every 6 months or about the amount of their last rate increase. Then I got this new Gladiator and that didn't help my rate either. As far as I can tell the the air-tag like device stuck to my windshield only records vehicle movements like acceleration, braking and distances and not distractions. It communicates with the app on my phone not the vehicle.

 

[chorky]

g these questions about the Insurance app/plug-ins because I truly know nothing about them and have avoided knowing anything about them because I am a bit Big Brother averse. I don't want to automatically naysay their value but I am struggling to satisfy a risk/

What about considering this - having the minimum possible insurance rates/coverage, and banking the rest into an emergency savings account. With all the horror stories I have seen the last few years regarding insurance, it's pretty obvious they do anything to get out of paying for an accident and will find any reason to screw you over. Yeah I'm pessimistic toward insurance, and for good reason. But, depending on the cost, maybe it is worth considering. That's what I have in regards to my TJ and LJ. The JT is full coverage of course because there is a loan on it. But the TJ and LJ are paid off and I have had multiple discussions with several insurance companies and have determined I am basically paying them to screw me over if either of those vehicles get even a fender bender nonetheless totaled from a accident. Even a not at fault accident would screw me. So, absolute bare minimum coverage it is and banking the rest that I would have paid for essentially my own coverage.

Just to think outside the box.

 

[redriderjf87]

At the beginning of The Great Corporate Gouging of the American people in 2021, Geico raised my rates to levels I haven’t seen since my 20s. I have a perfect driving record and I’m entering the down slope of age related risk. I don’t have any other issues with Geico. They’ve always been good to me and no one, even USAA couldn’t touch their rates in my experience.

I called my agent, who’s been generally really good to me to see what we could do. The short answer is nothing because these are general rate increases. But apparently Geico is now doing this dongle shit too. Personally and professionally (as a tech guy, who understands the sociopathic mentality of the tech industry)I find this whole concept to just be the latest of increasing encroachments into our personal space and the theft and financialization of our personal information by corporations, big tech and the government. It’s particularly Orwellian, because like a lot of people I almost got captured by this by first having my rate increased and then considering giving up more of my personal privacy and autonomy to get it a little of that money back.

Anyway, that rant isn’t the point. I asked a question to my agent that stopped the whole dongle pitch dead in its tracks. I asked about off roading. What happens when I’m spinning tires on a trail or stopping and starting quickly because I’m wheeling? I don’t pretend to know the conops of these things, like how and when can you turn them off or if can you? My agent told me that I absolutely do not want to participate in this program if I off road at all. That it will f&%k up my rates. I would seriously ask those questions before participating in one of these programs.

I’ll tell you another reason not to participate. You’re at the mercy of the quality or lack there of of some software engineers code. How the data gets parsed, what assumptions are baked into the algorithms, the thresholds for what is considered unsafe driving, how the data is aggregated and simple bugs all contribute to how well (accurately) the system works. My overall sense having worked in tech as a software engineer, architect and in management is that the industry has major bias problems, a cloistered insular workforce, a dangerous lack of diversity, a general “fuck em” attitude and it’s people work under constant downward pressure over schedule and cost. The requirement for constant market differentiation means new features, have to be added and the requirement for decreasing costs means testing is constantly being cut. The value of user data itself also means that no software development entity is free from the conflict between competing customers, the consumers and the various groups (internal or external), that want their data.

The natural result is what I’ve observed over the years within the industry and as a consumer, precipitous decline in quality and general inshitification of all tech. “AI”, and if it’s not been integrated into these insurance dongle programs, it soon will be will make this worse. “AI” is already starting to pan out the obvious way it would, not as some rise of the machines apocalypse, but as another shiny object hype bubble that mostly produces corporate manipulated garbage that floods the zone with noise and makes life more, not less difficult. AI determining whether or not you’re a safe driver is going to be a disaster and because corporations, have all decided it’s Christ risen, you’ll find it difficult if not impossible to refute its “hallucinations,” especially when the agent you’re taking to is also AI. Useful customer service, already rare, will cease to exist altogether.

My instinct, even as or maybe especially as an insider is to run in the opposite direction. To remove, to the greatest extent possible, my reliance on software in as many facets of my life as possible, especially when it’s not really clear who is deriving the actual utility from it, the customer or the corporation.

Couldn't agree more with all of that, as someone who works daily with industrial automation and vehicle software. It makes me want to fully disconnect my cars that much more.

You can't really put the toothpaste back in the tube once you trade some of your remaining privacy for the promise of a few bucks a month.

 

[Volt0]

I'll tell you what truly scares me is at what point the insurance companies say "In order to carry our coverage, you must use this plug-in".

I'm not a seer and I don't know how soon that is actually coming but I'm pretty sure it will be on the exact day before I give up my vehicles and start using public transportation exclusively, or walking, or riding a bicycle...

Or street legal sxs, with farm tags

 

[HooliganActual]

What about considering this - having the minimum possible insurance rates/coverage, and banking the rest into an emergency savings account. With all the horror stories I have seen the last few years regarding insurance, it's pretty obvious they do anything to get out of paying for an accident and will find any reason to screw you over. Yeah I'm pessimistic toward insurance, and for good reason. But, depending on the cost, maybe it is worth considering. That's what I have in regards to my TJ and LJ. The JT is full coverage of course because there is a loan on it. But the TJ and LJ are paid off and I have had multiple discussions with several insurance companies and have determined I am basically paying them to screw me over if either of those vehicles get even a fender bender nonetheless totaled from a accident. Even a not at fault accident would screw me. So, absolute bare minimum coverage it is and banking the rest that I would have paid for essentially my own coverage.

Just to think outside the box.

I hear you, brother. In essence I'm already leveraged similarly. I paid all three vehicles off before I retired. I am not necessarily "complaining" about my current premiums; I mean..I'd love them to give me coverage for free...

I'm hijacking this thread because I'm really trying to understand what the insurance companies are using to their advantage (read as "using against us") to see if one could really count on reducing rates and keeping them held down or if a couple of bad other driver's could wind up causing you to pay more.

I understand the sentiment, and wonder if some of that can be gleaned from the app reviews and comments.

I consider myself a Realist, in other words, an Optimist with prior experience, and I have to admit I am very skeptical of online reviews anymore because you can't always be sure that they aren't "paid reviews". Hence I am curious about the experience of forum members as I'm guessing the insurance companies aren't trolling these forums posting bogus info.

 

[Volt0]

What about considering this - having the minimum possible insurance rates/coverage, and banking the rest into an emergency savings account. With all the horror stories I have seen the last few years regarding insurance, it's pretty obvious they do anything to get out of paying for an accident and will find any reason to screw you over. Yeah I'm pessimistic toward insurance, and for good reason. But, depending on the cost, maybe it is worth considering. That's what I have in regards to my TJ and LJ. The JT is full coverage of course because there is a loan on it. But the TJ and LJ are paid off and I have had multiple discussions with several insurance companies and have determined I am basically paying them to screw me over if either of those vehicles get even a fender bender nonetheless totaled from a accident. Even a not at fault accident would screw me. So, absolute bare minimum coverage it is and banking the rest that I would have paid for essentially my own coverage.

Just to think outside the box.

There is definitely wisdom in keeping a vehicle, that’s cheep, paid off, easy to work on, with only liability and a higher deductible. I mean, seriously, for those folks in rural areas, it’s not the same risk as driving in 5 lanes of traffic ( each way ) in rush hour.

I like some of the new, fancy stuff, and I also enjoy keeping an old beater or 3 in the fleet ( not saying that yours are ). I kind of miss the days where I would park anywhere in a lot that I wanted, not give a rats tootie about door dings, and not even lock the dang thing, ever. True freedom right there.

 

[chorky]

I hear you, brother. In essence I'm already leveraged similarly. I paid all three vehicles off before I retired. I am not necessarily "complaining" about my current premiums; I mean..I'd love them to give me coverage for free...

I'm hijacking this thread because I'm really trying to understand what the insurance companies are using to their advantage (read as "using against us") to see if one could really count on reducing rates and keeping them held down or if a couple of bad other driver's could wind up causing you to pay more.


I consider myself a Realist, in other words, an Optimist with prior experience, and I have to admit I am very skeptical of online reviews anymore because you can't always be sure that they aren't "paid reviews". Hence I am curious about the experience of forum members as I'm guessing the insurance companies aren't trolling these forums posting bogus info.

Well think of it this way. Insurance is a business. They are not a non-profit. Every business plan is to make money. Sure, they offer a 'service' to people by covering their vehicles. But it is a government required service on top of that. Being a business, their end goal is making money, not loosing it. So it stands to reason then that they will always do what is possible to stick it to you, the customer. I mean this is visible by just seeing how rates have increased randomly with no justification or notification over the last several years - stating theft is a major reason. So you are essentially paying for someone else to get a new truck. I will never trust the government or any governing entity to be honest with how they use data and information. Granted our trucks are already 'tracked' and can have that information available. But knowing that insurance is a business, do you really think that agreeing to a GPS tracker will benefit you? Maybe maybe not. But what if there was a no-fault to you accident. But that GPS tracker showed you were going 3 MPH over the posted speed limit. That can be, and probably would be, grounds for the insurance company to deny your claim. Even if you sued the other party, their insurance could say you were speeding and thus all the ownership is on you. I have trust issues with these kinds of things because history, personal experience history, has shown me in my life for this sort of thing to be true. I mean I was even denied 2 years of medical treatment by insurance that 3 different doctors specifically referred me to because the insurance company determined 'it is not required'. So, as far as I am concerned, insurance cannot be trusted, at all. Its just a bonus if they do help.

isdom in keeping a vehicle, that’s cheep, paid off, easy to work on, with only liability and a higher deductible. I mean, seriously, for those folks in rural areas, it’s not the same risk as driving in 5 lanes of traffic ( each way ) in rush hour.

I like some of the new, fancy stuff, and I also enjoy keeping an old beater or 3 in the fleet ( not saying that yours are ). I kind of miss the days where I would park anywhere in a lot that I wanted, not give a rats tootie about door dings, and not even lock the dang thing, ever. True freedo

Yeah I constantly go between loving the creature comforts of the JT, and big concern of +10 year longevity because of how complicated it is and dealer repair competencies, which then turns me to the TJ and LJ because they are relatively simple, but have significantly less capability and comfort as the JT. I am very rural, and deer strikes out here are a problem. So we might not have rush hour traffic, but theres just as many wrecks from deer. And those are 90% of the time totaling to a vehicle. The summer rush of out-of-staters also is significant and makes for some pretty dangerous driving as most of them are pushing limits to 95mph + so they can maximize their vacation time. Makes for pretty sketchy situations on a 2 lane highway with few legal passing zones and older farm trucks only cruising at 70 - which is the posted speed limit on a particular road that frequently sees 95+ speeds and dozens of illegal passing, even by a semi. I don't know which is worse. Fender benders from rush-hour, or potential life flight level wrecks 4 months out of the year.

 

[HooliganActual]

Well think of it this way. Insurance is a business. They are not a non-profit. Every business plan is to make money. Sure, they offer a 'service' to people by covering their vehicles. But it is a government required service on top of that. Being a business, their end goal is making money, not loosing it. So it stands to reason then that they will always do what is possible to stick it to you, the customer. I mean this is visible by just seeing how rates have increased randomly with no justification or notification over the last several years - stating theft is a major reason. So you are essentially paying for someone else to get a new truck. I will never trust the government or any governing entity to be honest with how they use data and information. Granted our trucks are already 'tracked' and can have that information available. But knowing that insurance is a business, do you really think that agreeing to a GPS tracker will benefit you? Maybe maybe not. But what if there was a no-fault to you accident. But that GPS tracker showed you were going 3 MPH over the posted speed limit. That can be, and probably would be, grounds for the insurance company to deny your claim. Even if you sued the other party, their insurance could say you were speeding and thus all the ownership is on you. I have trust issues with these kinds of things because history, personal experience history, has shown me in my life for this sort of thing to be true. I mean I was even denied 2 years of medical treatment by insurance that 3 different doctors specifically referred me to because the insurance company determined 'it is not required'. So, as far as I am concerned, insurance cannot be trusted, at all. Its just a bonus if they do help.

Totally agree!

I'm just trying to be inquisitive and gather information before I close my mind to it. It's my nature to analyze the cr@p out of everything (probably why I am a retired engineer rather than an HR Manager, or a Customer Service Agent) and just make sure that all the data is in my mental Cost/Benefit Analysis. As I've said in several posts already, I can't wrap my brain around how this can't be more detrimental than beneficial, but I'm willing to hear someone make the actual case that it is better with the insurance company sitting in my passenger seat than without. LOL

Your example of the no fault accident going 3MPH over is the exact kind of scenario I think about. At least with a camera, I can prove the accident wasn't my fault and there is no evidence of my "wrongdoing".

And I get what you say about the Health Insurance, my wife had a service performed by a doctor that was literally just mis-coded and of course, the insurance company denied the claim. The doctor realized his error, changed the code and the Insurance Company still denied because now they thought he was lying to trick them into coverage. Took about a year to resolve.

I am more of a curmudgeon and misanthrope than I care to admit but I try to give people the benefit of the doubt before they ultimately let me down...???

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