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What are some things you get INSTEAD of mods for your JT?

Mtpisgah

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I'm currently debating between holding onto a pile of cash for truck parts or a stereo microscope for watchmaking and occasional electronics purposes. 3.5-180X (gotta hunt tardigrades with my daughter when she's old enough), simufocal, double boom stand, variable LED lighting, etc.

Let’s talk about the watchmaking. What specifically do you do? I have three high end watches I need to have serviced.


When not modding the JT, I am modding my wife’s JL, buying wine, making home improvements, buying wood for furniture projects (usually walnut), investing, and making extra house payments. A 30 year mortgage will be paid off in eight years.

My gun buying days are over, I have enough. Enough ammo too. I rarely shoot these days and never sell.
 

spectre6000

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Let’s talk about the watchmaking. What specifically do you do? I have three high end watches I need to have serviced.
I don't do that. Don't want the liability or the insurance rider to my homeowner policy.

One of these might be of help:
https://awci.memberclicks.net/find-a-professional2
https://net.nawcc.org/Web/Business_Directory/Web/Directory/Search.aspx

Not many people really get watches any more. Quartz watches are disposable. Best case scenario, you have a nice case that lasts a handful of years, and then... recycle it? Hope you can find a replacement movement to fit with minimal modification? Dying art for sure, and what's left is moving increasingly up market for better or worse.

"Kinda like horses" was the analogy that came up in a conversation I had recently with other watchmakers. When they were a tool and a fact of life, it was nothing in cost or effort to find a ferrier (or whatever else you need for horses, I really have no idea). Once they became a choice rather than a necessity, it became much harder and more expensive to maintain. To wit, my screwdrivers alone, very small, but very precise flat bladed drivers whose tips require hand maintenance, were a screaming bargain at $120 or so just for an entry level student set. It's easier to talk my wife into Snap On when comparisons to watchmaking tools are made.

Additionally, parts are increasingly becoming controlled by the manufacturers such that independents can't even touch them, further driving up the cost of ownership. The Swatch Group (Omega, Hamilton, Breitling, and a bunch more, but those are the ones that are probably best known) is currently engaged in a number of lawsuits in Europe over their cartel-like behavior. I get most of my parts out of the UK, because there's a much more robust watchmaking tradition there keeping the parts houses alive; they're nearly all gone and consolidated in the US.

Personally, I like machines. I like working on them, and with them. There's a lot in common with the automotive hobby. Watches came first for me, but cars/engines got more traction earlier. I also like history, and there's a lot of that with various aspects of the watchmaking world. My watchmaking exploits consist of finding old watches that don't work, fixing them up so they do, and look nice, and are wearable, and are as accurate as they're able to be, then selling them at a slight profit to buy more tools and project watches. It's a self-sustaining hobby... assuming I ever break even on the tooling. An evening servicing a watch movement over a glass of scotch with a nice record or three is a very fine evening indeed.
 

Mtpisgah

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I don't do that. Don't want the liability or the insurance rider to my homeowner policy.

One of these might be of help:
https://awci.memberclicks.net/find-a-professional2
https://net.nawcc.org/Web/Business_Directory/Web/Directory/Search.aspx

Not many people really get watches any more. Quartz watches are disposable. Best case scenario, you have a nice case that lasts a handful of years, and then... recycle it? Hope you can find a replacement movement to fit with minimal modification? Dying art for sure, and what's left is moving increasingly up market for better or worse.

"Kinda like horses" was the analogy that came up in a conversation I had recently with other watchmakers. When they were a tool and a fact of life, it was nothing in cost or effort to find a ferrier (or whatever else you need for horses, I really have no idea). Once they became a choice rather than a necessity, it became much harder and more expensive to maintain. To wit, my screwdrivers alone, very small, but very precise flat bladed drivers whose tips require hand maintenance, were a screaming bargain at $120 or so just for an entry level student set. It's easier to talk my wife into Snap On when comparisons to watchmaking tools are made.

Additionally, parts are increasingly becoming controlled by the manufacturers such that independents can't even touch them, further driving up the cost of ownership. The Swatch Group (Omega, Hamilton, Breitling, and a bunch more, but those are the ones that are probably best known) is currently engaged in a number of lawsuits in Europe over their cartel-like behavior. I get most of my parts out of the UK, because there's a much more robust watchmaking tradition there keeping the parts houses alive; they're nearly all gone and consolidated in the US.

Personally, I like machines. I like working on them, and with them. There's a lot in common with the automotive hobby. Watches came first for me, but cars/engines got more traction earlier. I also like history, and there's a lot of that with various aspects of the watchmaking world. My watchmaking exploits consist of finding old watches that don't work, fixing them up so they do, and look nice, and are wearable, and are as accurate as they're able to be, then selling them at a slight profit to buy more tools and project watches. It's a self-sustaining hobby... assuming I ever break even on the tooling. An evening servicing a watch movement over a glass of scotch with a nice record or three is a very fine evening indeed.
i do not blame you, it is a lot of responsibility. My grandfather was a watchmaker, I wish I had known him better.
The watches I need to have serviced are a vintage Patek and Vacheron and ‘newer’ Ulysse Nardin. Too expensive to send to the factory, too expensive to send to just any repair shop. But the parts availability issue is real.
 

spectre6000

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You weren't kidding around about "high end"... Vintage parts are occasionally easier than newer parts. Pateks weren't exactly ever common by any stretch... Neither were Vacheron of Ulysse for that matter... I've seen where amateurs like myself have tackled (and butchered) Pateks, but I've also seen them do good work. Sometimes you can get parts. I don't know when or where those manufacturers have fallen on the parts control issue over time. Vacheron is using Swatch movements these days, so you might be hosed with that one regardless... Or maybe not yet and get it in while the getting is good; that's very much a pending situation from country to country. In the US, I'm not special, but I can get ETA parts if I need to for the most part (takes a little horse trading from time to time though).

A watch is a watch is a watch for the most part, it's the parts and the cost of them (and any mistakes) that's scary. The workings of a Patek Phillippe Calatrava (just picking the most common as an example) are no different from the nameless 17J (or 21J or 23J or whatever) $5 A. Schild powered watch in my project pile. So functionally, a service is a service as long as that's all that's needed. Crystals aren't all that special, and I don't think mainsprings typically are either, and that's typically all that's needed for a pretty comprehensive service. Unless something is actively broken (if it'll run for even a minute or so, you're probably in good shape), that's all you should need.

That said, each of those is of the echelon where I'd probably have them sent to the factory for the documentation unless they're already... out of the loop? I don't know what they call it. I don't do WUS. I'm not the sort of car guy that cares about whether my car has always been dealer serviced, but you're more in the Ferrari realm of watches with those, and Ferrari people do care. Down the road, someone may very likely care that the paperwork is in order. If they're heirlooms and you want to hand them down, carefully pack them away (maybe with a note for some future family member who doesn't know what a watch is or why they shouldn't just toss it in the donation pile when you die). Nothing will wear just sitting, and someone in the family down the road can pay the bucks to have them serviced and put back to use. If you pay big bucks to have them serviced, then just stash them away in a closet somewhere, the oils will settle and oxidize over time, and you got no utility out of them for the money. If there are major repairs required, that's a slightly different story, and has more to do with psychology than anything about the machines...
 

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Mtpisgah

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You weren't kidding around about "high end"... Vintage parts are occasionally easier than newer parts. Pateks weren't exactly ever common by any stretch... Neither were Vacheron of Ulysse for that matter... I've seen where amateurs like myself have tackled (and butchered) Pateks, but I've also seen them do good work. Sometimes you can get parts. I don't know when or where those manufacturers have fallen on the parts control issue over time. Vacheron is using Swatch movements these days, so you might be hosed with that one regardless... Or maybe not yet and get it in while the getting is good; that's very much a pending situation from country to country. In the US, I'm not special, but I can get ETA parts if I need to for the most part (takes a little horse trading from time to time though).

A watch is a watch is a watch for the most part, it's the parts and the cost of them (and any mistakes) that's scary. The workings of a Patek Phillippe Calatrava (just picking the most common as an example) are no different from the nameless 17J (or 21J or 23J or whatever) $5 A. Schild powered watch in my project pile. So functionally, a service is a service as long as that's all that's needed. Crystals aren't all that special, and I don't think mainsprings typically are either, and that's typically all that's needed for a pretty comprehensive service. Unless something is actively broken (if it'll run for even a minute or so, you're probably in good shape), that's all you should need.

That said, each of those is of the echelon where I'd probably have them sent to the factory for the documentation unless they're already... out of the loop? I don't know what they call it. I don't do WUS. I'm not the sort of car guy that cares about whether my car has always been dealer serviced, but you're more in the Ferrari realm of watches with those, and Ferrari people do care. Down the road, someone may very likely care that the paperwork is in order. If they're heirlooms and you want to hand them down, carefully pack them away (maybe with a note for some future family member who doesn't know what a watch is or why they shouldn't just toss it in the donation pile when you die). Nothing will wear just sitting, and someone in the family down the road can pay the bucks to have them serviced and put back to use. If you pay big bucks to have them serviced, then just stash them away in a closet somewhere, the oils will settle and oxidize over time, and you got no utility out of them for the money. If there are major repairs required, that's a slightly different story, and has more to do with psychology than anything about the machines...
Agreed on all parts. I found a shop to work on the VC but not the PP or UN. I really just need to send them to authorized reps of piece of mind in it being done right. I can afford it, I just hate to. They all keep time fine, but it is time to service them In general.

The PP and VC are about 40 years old each and the UN is 20 years old. i have had the UN since it was new, the others were purchased preowned when I found good deals. I could not justify replacing them I do not think, even with an insurance payout. I have a Rolex that needs service too, but there are so many qualified shops that do them that it is not a concern.
 

spectre6000

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OK... Well... Consider this for what it's worth, because who the hell am I? Sell them all. None are heirlooms (which is what I had in mind when you said they were vintage), and they're clearly not all that special to you. You don't even really seem all that into them. There was a whole thing a while back with some TV show about getting rid of things that don't "bring you joy". These sound like that.

Without getting too deep into the psychological aspects of it, you might have fallen into the watch as a symbol trap. If you like mechanical watches for mechanical watches' sake, there are a ton of really awesome watches out there that are far more interesting than the vast majority of the VC, PP, and UN (and especially Rolex) catalogs. If you like them because of your perceived notion of their import to those around you, how many people do you know who carry loupes around to admire them? How many people do you know that would have any clue what a Nautilus even is? Sell them all, get something you actually like.

Just one, no more than three (daily, dress, shop/beater). I own dozens of watches at any given time, but I only ever wear two (the rest are projects). My daily driver, and my shop watch (so I don't screw up my daily). My daily is plain enough to double for dress if need be. Neither are all that expensive, but I really like both of them, and would absolutely have no issue paying to have them serviced. If you're into movements and the mechanics of it, with ETA shutting down ébauche production, most manufacturers have been bringing movements in house. There are a number of manufactures in Glashütte with a range of prices and styles. Hell, stick to a Swatch Group brand; Omega has a lot of really cool stuff going on pretty much always. This is a car forum, so check out Zenith's Defy chrono with the silicon flexure escapement on the chronograph complication. Somebody else recently announced an affordable silcon flexure escapement in a time only movement. Ultra high beat rates! Bleeding edge tech! If you are into interesting complications, focus on something with a 2824-2 or SW200 (same same), and you've got a reliable and accurate movement that's inexpensive to service with readily available parts and people familiar with the machine.

In case you're curious, my shop watch is a Seiko 5 cobbled together from a few watches and some aftermarket parts. Very low cost. My daily driver is a 2014 Bulova Accu-Swiss Type A-15. MSRP $1500, I bought it NOS in 2020 for $750 or so. Bulova got a new CEO around 2014, and he wanted to take the brand back up market; so he launched the AccuSwiss line with ETA movements and nicer overall appointments. Citizen brass didn't care for this upstart rocking the boat, and immediately canned him. The original A-15 was a failed experiment during WWII that was essentially the epitome of American philosophy of democratization of industry in watchmaking. Chronographs are expensive to make and maintain, and were required for aerial navigation. Bulova took the standard issue A-11, and added dual rotating bezels that could accomplish the same task with just four low precision, low cost moving parts. As American industry always has, they took something fabulously expensive, complicated, and bogged down with traditional baggage, and distilled it down to its essence in a way that makes it available to the masses... in order to win a world wide military conflict. It checks the pilot watch box without being just another flieger, looks cool and unique with a pop of color, is super functional, and at the end of the day the modern watch is powered by a bog standard 2824-2 that's easily and inexpensively sourced and serviced just about anywhere. I could go on, but this is a long post and bordering on off topic.
 

iammacey

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Mods for the Fiesta... I have the Gladiator essentially done. Nothing else planned for it, other than a trailer to tow the bikes.

The Fiesta is getting coilovers and an intercooler today. It's basically my daily/track car. So most of the modifications go to it with track performance in mind. My plan is to move to something like a spec Miata next year. And I'll finally leave the Fiesta alone. Maybe.
 

J Sierra

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Miller 200 DX and coolmate 3. The coolmate is the same size as a 1976 Tektronix oscilloscope. I found a use for my 1976 oscilloscope cart.

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Mtpisgah

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OK... Well... Consider this for what it's worth, because who the hell am I? Sell them all. None are heirlooms (which is what I had in mind when you said they were vintage), and they're clearly not all that special to you. You don't even really seem all that into them. There was a whole thing a while back with some TV show about getting rid of things that don't "bring you joy". These sound like that.

Without getting too deep into the psychological aspects of it, you might have fallen into the watch as a symbol trap. If you like mechanical watches for mechanical watches' sake, there are a ton of really awesome watches out there that are far more interesting than the vast majority of the VC, PP, and UN (and especially Rolex) catalogs. If you like them because of your perceived notion of their import to those around you, how many people do you know who carry loupes around to admire them? How many people do you know that would have any clue what a Nautilus even is? Sell them all, get something you actually like.

Just one, no more than three (daily, dress, shop/beater). I own dozens of watches at any given time, but I only ever wear two (the rest are projects). My daily driver, and my shop watch (so I don't screw up my daily). My daily is plain enough to double for dress if need be. Neither are all that expensive, but I really like both of them, and would absolutely have no issue paying to have them serviced. If you're into movements and the mechanics of it, with ETA shutting down ébauche production, most manufacturers have been bringing movements in house. There are a number of manufactures in Glashütte with a range of prices and styles. Hell, stick to a Swatch Group brand; Omega has a lot of really cool stuff going on pretty much always. This is a car forum, so check out Zenith's Defy chrono with the silicon flexure escapement on the chronograph complication. Somebody else recently announced an affordable silcon flexure escapement in a time only movement. Ultra high beat rates! Bleeding edge tech! If you are into interesting complications, focus on something with a 2824-2 or SW200 (same same), and you've got a reliable and accurate movement that's inexpensive to service with readily available parts and people familiar with the machine.

In case you're curious, my shop watch is a Seiko 5 cobbled together from a few watches and some aftermarket parts. Very low cost. My daily driver is a 2014 Bulova Accu-Swiss Type A-15. MSRP $1500, I bought it NOS in 2020 for $750 or so. Bulova got a new CEO around 2014, and he wanted to take the brand back up market; so he launched the AccuSwiss line with ETA movements and nicer overall appointments. Citizen brass didn't care for this upstart rocking the boat, and immediately canned him. The original A-15 was a failed experiment during WWII that was essentially the epitome of American philosophy of democratization of industry in watchmaking. Chronographs are expensive to make and maintain, and were required for aerial navigation. Bulova took the standard issue A-11, and added dual rotating bezels that could accomplish the same task with just four low precision, low cost moving parts. As American industry always has, they took something fabulously expensive, complicated, and bogged down with traditional baggage, and distilled it down to its essence in a way that makes it available to the masses... in order to win a world wide military conflict. It checks the pilot watch box without being just another flieger, looks cool and unique with a pop of color, is super functional, and at the end of the day the modern watch is powered by a bog standard 2824-2 that's easily and inexpensively sourced and serviced just about anywhere. I could go on, but this is a long post and bordering on off topic.
You are way off mark in so many ways with your first two paragraphs there, but that is ok.
 

spectre6000

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You are way off mark in so many ways with your first two paragraphs there, but that is ok.
I hope not in a bad way. Sorry if so. You say you don't want to send them off and wouldn't replace them if they died in a fire. Are you wanting to learn to fix them yourself? You could probably get tooled up for less than sending them off, and a handful inexpensive practice watches could probably get you up to speed enough so long as none of them have any crazy complications. There ARE ways to get parts outside the official channels; donor movements, sometimes other watchmakers have random things hiding in their stashes, make them (but then you're REALLY into some tooling cost depending on the part), etc.

Watch pretty much every video on this guy's channel, and you'll come out the other side with a pretty solid base to start. It can't teach you the manual dexterity part (which is very difficult in its own right), but the what goes where and how is pretty well covered in many real world situations:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7vSOnpUocYq0z8oiYFk0zQ
Be prepared to knot up a few hairsprings at the beginning. It WILL happen. Do it on something cheap.
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