What's hanging on your rearview mirror.

[Dougstdig]

Had this for about 4 years been thru 2 jeeps so far.

Well that’s nice…

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[antwon412]

Had this for about 4 years been thru 2 jeeps so far.

Classy

 

[Pescatoral Pursuit]

A lot of bacteria.

 

[ArmyMP]

He's not being paranoid. He's being realistic. Pretextual stops are a thing. Things like having a light out, hanging items from your rearview mirror, and other seeming meaningless things can be used for a pretextual stop.

It's a good idea to avoid anything that can be used for a pretextual stop. This is included. As soon as it can be stated that the hanging item "obstructs view" it's enough.

Wrong. These seemingly meaningless things are criminal activity.

There is a difference between Crime and criminal activity vs. Regulatory and/or ordinance violations.

Crime and Criminal activity require an action and/or situation that poses a possible detriment to public safety. An easy way to figure this is to ask "is there legislation to prohibit this action or situation?" If yes then by design even with as meaningless it is, it constitutes criminal activity and can be subject to a Terry Stop. These would also constitute what states call a Moving or Pointable Violation.

Regulatory Violations are not laws passed by legislation but "Rules" created by beaurocracy. I.e Dept Motor Vehicles, Dept of Pubic health, etc. As these are just "Rules" they cannot be classified as crimes and do not meet the requirements for a Terry Stop. These are Non-Moving or non printable violations.

Pretextual/Terry Stops require a clear and articuable reasonable suspicion of criminality. There is a big difference between:

"I pulled him over for abiding by traffic laws and issued a searbelt because I thought me might have a gun"

Vs

"I pulled him over for traffic surfing in the bed of a pick up truck wearing nothing but a banana peel on his junk while waving a pistol in the air"


Things like seatbelt, dangles, window tint, noise, loud exhaust, ride height are subjective observations and not clear and articulate.

"I think" is not "I know" thus not clear and articulate.

Cops have no mandate to tell you the truth. Don't talk to police, nor do they talk to you off the record so don't volunteer Information, Am I free to go? Am I being detained?.

 

[sharpsicle]

Things like seatbelt, dangles, window tint, noise, loud exhaust, ride height are subjective observations and not clear and articulate.

"I think" is not "I know" thus not clear and articulate.

Unfortunately this is not how the real world works. Stops for things of this nature happen all the time. Even the case you cited for Florida shows that the officers believed in good faith that their stop was correct. It took escalation to an appellate court to sort it out. We're just saying not to give them a reason, and definitely don't assume that they know the finer points of the law (which in the case you referenced, the finer points were what was in contention). Your reference even proved that @Dougstdig doesn't need a "tin-foil hat". He's right, they will use it as a reason to pull you over if they want.

The point here is not to argue case law or who is "technically correct", but to say that many officers will in fact pull you over for it if they want to (right or wrong). That's the truth of the world and if you don't want to deal with that then don't hang stuff. Unless you want to try and play roadside lawyer with the cops.

 

[NachoRuby]

It all depends on where you live. It doesn't have to be 'criminal' activity to be stopped. Some places now allows stops just for not wearing a seatbelt, or for using a phone while driving.

There are states that don't pull you over for not wearing a seatbelt? They run "click it or ticket" campaigns all the time, here, during which they are specifically looking to pull people over for that one thing.

Wrong. These seemingly meaningless things are criminal activity.

There is a difference between Crime and criminal activity vs. Regulatory and/or ordinance violations.

Crime and Criminal activity require an action and/or situation that poses a possible detriment to public safety. An easy way to figure this is to ask "is there legislation to prohibit this action or situation?" If yes then by design even with as meaningless it is, it constitutes criminal activity and can be subject to a Terry Stop. These would also constitute what states call a Moving or Pointable Violation.

Regulatory Violations are not laws passed by legislation but "Rules" created by beaurocracy. I.e Dept Motor Vehicles, Dept of Pubic health, etc. As these are just "Rules" they cannot be classified as crimes and do not meet the requirements for a Terry Stop. These are Non-Moving or non printable violations.

Pretextual/Terry Stops require a clear and articuable reasonable suspicion of criminality. There is a big difference between:

"I pulled him over for abiding by traffic laws and issued a searbelt because I thought me might have a gun"

Vs

"I pulled him over for traffic surfing in the bed of a pick up truck wearing nothing but a banana peel on his junk while waving a pistol in the air"


Things like seatbelt, dangles, window tint, noise, loud exhaust, ride height are subjective observations and not clear and articulate.

"I think" is not "I know" thus not clear and articulate.

Cops have no mandate to tell you the truth. Don't talk to police, nor do they talk to you off the record so don't volunteer Information, Am I free to go? Am I being detained?.

There actually is legislation against hanging things from the mirror here in Pennsylvania. It's clear and legislated. They won't even inspect your vehicle without you taking it off. Don't know about other places, but here it is.
https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdoc...t=45&sctn=24&subsctn=0&mobile_choice=suppress

 

[Dougstdig]

@ArmyMP

Well… this confirms it. Good thing I’m not officially still not in…

 

[Pescatoral Pursuit]

Wrong. These seemingly meaningless things are criminal activity.

There is a difference between Crime and criminal activity vs. Regulatory and/or ordinance violations.

Crime and Criminal activity require an action and/or situation that poses a possible detriment to public safety. An easy way to figure this is to ask "is there legislation to prohibit this action or situation?" If yes then by design even with as meaningless it is, it constitutes criminal activity and can be subject to a Terry Stop. These would also constitute what states call a Moving or Pointable Violation.

Regulatory Violations are not laws passed by legislation but "Rules" created by beaurocracy. I.e Dept Motor Vehicles, Dept of Pubic health, etc. As these are just "Rules" they cannot be classified as crimes and do not meet the requirements for a Terry Stop. These are Non-Moving or non printable violations.

Pretextual/Terry Stops require a clear and articuable reasonable suspicion of criminality. There is a big difference between:

"I pulled him over for abiding by traffic laws and issued a searbelt because I thought me might have a gun"

Vs

"I pulled him over for traffic surfing in the bed of a pick up truck wearing nothing but a banana peel on his junk while waving a pistol in the air"


Things like seatbelt, dangles, window tint, noise, loud exhaust, ride height are subjective observations and not clear and articulate.

"I think" is not "I know" thus not clear and articulate.

Cops have no mandate to tell you the truth. Don't talk to police, nor do they talk to you off the record so don't volunteer Information, Am I free to go? Am I being detained?.

Username checks out.

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