Worst on Consumer Reports

[Wendell36]

Reminds me of a conversation I had with a buddy on how his Honda Goldwing was a better motorcycle than my HD Roadking. His bike is smooth, powerful, and gets excellent gas mileage. Mine is rough, loud, and is not as fuel efficient. Like I told him, the difference between us, is that your not riding a HD. I bought it for the proud heritage, culture, and personalization options that only a HD can provide. Besides, no hot chic ever turned her head for a guy on a Goldwing. BTW, CR can suck it! I love my Gladiator and so do most folks who get a look at it. At least the ones that matter.

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[Tomentose]

Its because consumer reports is (supposedly) basing it on objective ratings alone. On the road the wrangler/gladiator with SFA, big off road tires, fiberglass/canvas tops, slow performance, and middling to poor MPG arent going to rate very highly if you are comparing it to other on-road focused vehicles. Its going to be louder, slower, worse driving, poorer braking/turning/acceleration than road focused trucks/suvs for sure so it will pretty much always be at the bottom if thats what you measure it by.

It will always be near the top though in satisfaciton because most people buying jeeps realize all these short comings and are buying it inspite of its on road performance because these compromises make it more fun, more capable, and a lifestyle vehicle.

Exactly, my Mojave is my 4th Jeep and i knew exactly what i was getting into before getting mine. damn the consequences. Also why i got an 8 year warranty though...

 

[RichDSport]

I don’t feel personally attacked by CR. I’ve been a subscriber for quite a while. The writers are basically car people and understand the deal with Jeep. You could see a couple of years ago that BMW and Mini were trending from the bottom to the upper tier and now they sit at 3 and 8. I get why Jeep is at the bottom, even though I had a great experience with the Cherokee and love the Gladiator so far. I picked the Gladiator over the Tacoma because it’s frankly better to drive on and off road. Jeep making all the safety systems optional is kind of ridiculous and no doubt dings them.

I am surprised that they singled out the Gladiator for quality problems. There were teething issues in year 1, but I expect good reliability For 2022.

 

[Rusty PW]

Thanks, now I have to find a way to use the word "endogeneity" at work tomorrow.

Using big words at work is fun. Especially when management has to use a dictionary to look up the words.

 

[jmdwifi]

Tacoma rides better?

Anything rides better than solid axle. My Tundra rode much better than the Tacoma. The Tundra had a bigger bed and shit loads of power. But it was boring for me. I love my Gladiator. It's a Jeep and there are some thing you just accept when you have a Jeep. I don't go on long trips often but the few 9 plus hrs drive I've been on, I missed my Tundra for a bit.

 

[Casique]

Back to the Harley thing, if you have to explain it, the other person will never understand it!

 

[LostWoods]

Anything rides better than solid axle. My Tundra rode much better than the Tacoma. The Tundra had a bigger bed and shit loads of power. But it was boring for me. I love my Gladiator. It's a Jeep and there are some thing you just accept when you have a Jeep. I don't go on long trips often but the few 9 plus hrs drive I've been on, I missed my Tundra for a bit.

Yeah I got to experience hard crosswinds for about 6 hours at 80+ yesterday and I very much missed my Tacoma. Nothing like getting pushed every time you pass a truck along the 10 for miles on end.

 

[Klutch]

Consumer reports, et al, are classic examples of bad sampling. For sure there is major self selection bias. The ratings come from CR readers (small population subset), who choose to respond to the survey (smaller population subset), who are more likely to respond if they have something to complain about (this is a documented tendency and even smaller subset).

If people are more likely to respond if they have something to complain about, how do you explain Honda, Toyota and Subaru getting very positive responses?

 

[Wolf Island Diver]

If people are more likely to respond if they have something to complain about, how do you explain Honda, Toyota and Subaru getting very positive responses?

First, a tendency or likelihood isn’t a rule. Nothing precludes people from responding who’ve had a average experience.

This is just a well documented form of self-selection bias.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1569190X17300874



This same principle applies to Yelp reviews or any voluntary review of any kind. People who’ve had a bad experience are more motivated to respond. This works in the opposite direction as well! People who have a positive experience or are simply brand loyal are more likely to respond as well. Those Toyota reviewers might also be a function of the same tendency. None of that speaks to Toyota vs Jeep reliability. There are other sources of data that are more accurate.

Have you ever filled out a CR car survey? I have. It’s a lengthy process. A lot of people wouldn’t want to be bothered doing it. I wouldn’t do it again, because I don’t see the point.

My point is that CR actually suffers from one of the worst sample bias problems you can have if you’re trying to represent the real population. In this case the total population of car buyers. It’s a specific population subset (CR subscribers) who then self-select. Therefore, CR is not a quality source for aggregate data on car reliability or customer experience. It just does not employ a rigorous methodology. Now CR does state that it’s a yearly reader survey, etc. But they also don’t directly explain the flaws in their methodology as a disclaimer. It’s implied that CR reviews are representative.

By the way, this forum is also a form of self-selection bias. No one can infer that our experiences or opinions about Gladiators are representative of the whole population of Gladiator owners, but this forum also isn’t claiming to do statistical research. CR could be useful in the way that this forum is in that it could provide case-studies but it doesn’t. It aggregates data and makes inferences about the category of compliment or complaint that further muddies the water.

 

[NachoRuby]

Anything rides better than solid axle. My Tundra rode much better than the Tacoma. The Tundra had a bigger bed and shit loads of power. But it was boring for me. I love my Gladiator. It's a Jeep and there are some thing you just accept when you have a Jeep. I don't go on long trips often but the few 9 plus hrs drive I've been on, I missed my Tundra for a bit.

Don't know, I was all set to buy a Tacoma TRD pro, until I test drove it. The Gladiator drove much better, and that along side the larger cabin, was the determining factor. The jeep requires more steering input, but the Tacoma drove and rode worse to me.
A Tundra is fullsize though. My brother in Law has a Tundra limited, and that thing drives great, admittedly much better than the gladiator. But the Tacoma is nothing special as far as ride/drive quality go.

 

[Wolf Island Diver]

Don't know, I was all set to buy a Tacoma TRD pro, until I test drove it. The Gladiator drove much better, and that along side the larger cabin, was the determining factor. The jeep requires more steering input, but the Tacoma drove and rode worse to me.
A Tundra is fullsize though. My brother in Law has a Tundra limited, and that thing drives great, admittedly much better than the gladiator. But the Tacoma is nothing special as far as ride/drive quality go.

That’s really interesting. When I test drove the Gladiator I said to the guys at the dealership (whom I know) that I would think they’d have a hard time with Toyota cross shoppers because the Tacoma has to drive better. But to be honest, it’s been years since I’ve driven a Tacoma so that was an assumption. I don’t think the Gladiator, especially in diesel in stock form drives well at all. I assumed the Toyota had to drive better since it a more conventional pickup and I used to have a small Nissan pickup that drove well.

But when I think back, what you said makes a lot of sense. I came really close to buying a 4Runner when they redesigned it back in, I think, 2010-11. I remember it drove like a box truck. I was actually shocked coming from Jeeps which supposedly have a reputation for terrible handling. I’ve seen that with a few other Toyotas as well. I drove someone’s Highlander and that was awful. Same goes for someone’s Tundra that I tried out as well. They all feel underdamped. My mom had the last generation Rav4 and it was okay, but it also had lots of quality issues and would rock way to much over speed bumps at an angle or diving into driveways, again under damped.

I had an FRS and that drove well but that’s a different animal.

 

[Challenger85]

Oh, absolutely. I wasn't trying to imply that all Ivermectin is horse wormer, only that people are literally going to Tractor Supply and buying it in horse wormer form to treat Covid.

Honestly? If you need this sign, I’m fine with nature taking it’s course.

 

[jmdwifi]

Don't know, I was all set to buy a Tacoma TRD pro, until I test drove it. The Gladiator drove much better, and that along side the larger cabin, was the determining factor. The jeep requires more steering input, but the Tacoma drove and rode worse to me.
A Tundra is fullsize though. My brother in Law has a Tundra limited, and that thing drives great, admittedly much better than the gladiator. But the Tacoma is nothing special as far as ride/drive quality go.

Mine was a 2017 limited, I don't know if they were different. I am not saying it was vastly different but the Jeep is more jumpy or something. On a positive note, my Gladiator rides much better than my 2015 JKU.

 

[NachoRuby]

Mine was a 2017 limited, I don't know if they were different. I am not saying it was vastly different but the Jeep is more jumpy or something. On a positive note, my Gladiator rides much better than my 2015 JKU.

I'm sure a limited drives much better than a TRD pro, so that could be it. But we might just also have different subjective ideas of a good ride, or it could be different jeep trims as well. My wife's JKU Sahara drives better thany JTR, in my opinion. The Tacoma TRD pro felt like it was going to flip while turning (so much body roll). It was also too cramped inside for me to be comfortable. As you stated, the jeep with its solid axles will definitely require more active steering input, but otherwise, it doesn't handle poorly.

Now the wind noise and things like that will obviously be worse in a jeep, even objectively.

 

[LostWoods]

Don't know, I was all set to buy a Tacoma TRD pro, until I test drove it. The Gladiator drove much better, and that along side the larger cabin, was the determining factor. The jeep requires more steering input, but the Tacoma drove and rode worse to me.
A Tundra is fullsize though. My brother in Law has a Tundra limited, and that thing drives great, admittedly much better than the gladiator. But the Tacoma is nothing special as far as ride/drive quality go.

I'd like to know what your definition of better driving was because between the two that's the only thing I miss about my Tacoma. The tighter steering, better control over bumpy terrain and roads, and more planted feel in corners was miles ahead of my gladiator even the rear coils soak up the road more nicely than the leafs in the Tacoma. The difference between the two at 85 is the most night and day I've experienced between two similar vehicles.

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