Best 3.5" dash speakers? (direct replacement, no amps, no other speakers)

[Matts4313]

Thanks!
I'm still debating what to do if anything.
I have the Alpine setup and it's not bad. I just wonder if it could be better.

FWIW - I did not like the premium alpine, which is why I didnt order it on my build. So if you do like the Alpine, then chances are our listening preferences might be different. I like good mids and despise tweeters that sound like tin cans. Other people pay $500 for a set of tweeters that sound like tin cans. :shrugs: were all a little different in what we like.

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[RockinRobin]

I am very pleased with MB Quart. Plug and Play. 15 min install

 

[SargeDiesel]

And yet you post no link to the magical pricing? ???‍?

Because just about anywhere is cheaper than Crutchfield and also mentioned by others, a better price is easy to find .... but mainly because pricing changes quickly( as in this case) but I don't mind helping you out if you need it....
Looks like the price increased, but still the cheapest around that I found. Good luck with your upgrade.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1854574685...Rir0w76wTdi&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=SMS

 

[Radio Guy]

Don't confuse polarity with phase, they are different.
Polarity is a function of positive and negative wiring, while phase is a function of time.

I DISAGREE with your statement ...... "You don't determine the polarity of a speaker with a DC voltmeter"
*You basically explained why you CAN use a multimeter in your explanation of why you "think" you can't use one.

There are several ways to determine polarity of a speaker and yes , one of them is using a multimeter, it is a 100% accurate way to do it.... but not the only way.

But either way, we are achieving the same results for the same reason.

If you are interested in the multimeter method, this was one of the first of many articles that popped up.... plenty of Youtube videos also.

https://electrouniversity.com/how-to-test-positive-and-negative-speaker-wires-with-multimeter/#:~:text=To test the polarity of,wire, and vice-versa.

another article that discusses the difference between polarity and phase.

https://audiouniversityonline.com/polarity-vs-phase/#:~:text=What's the difference between polarity,is a function of time.

There is no simple mulitmeter that can tell you the polarity of a speaker, its not possible. The meter can measure AC or DC voltage across the speaker, or how much AC or DC current is passing through it or what the DC resistance of the speaker coil is and nothing more. The easiest way to verify which speaker lead is "positive" is to place a 1.5 volt battery like a AA cell across the speaker leads and whatever orientation of the battery causes the speaker cone to move towards the front of the speaker would then have the battery + going to the speaker + terminal.

 

[SargeDiesel]

There is no simple mulitmeter that can tell you the polarity of a speaker, its not possible. The meter can measure AC or DC voltage across the speaker, or how much AC or DC current is passing through it or what the DC resistance of the speaker coil is and nothing more. The easiest way to verify which speaker lead is "positive" is to place a 1.5 volt battery like a AA cell across the speaker leads and whatever orientation of the battery causes the speaker cone to move towards the front of the speaker would then have the battery + going to the speaker + terminal.

Agreed ..... thanks for the input. Not really sure why everyone keeps re-explaining the battery method to check the +/- leads of a speaker... The battery method is great... and works excellent for determining which leads are the +/- of a "speaker" ... so I think we all an agree on this....
But in my case, as I stated initially, I was determining the +/- of the vehicle's "wiring" ... and for this testing you can most certainly determine the +/- with a multimeter.

 

[Radio Guy]

Not at all. It seems in your example the radio is putting out some DC voltage on the speaker leads and that is unusual, and undesirable. I don't know of any amplifier that puts DC on speaker leads except a tiny sensing voltage to see if something is connected like earphones connected to a laptop, etc. Testing for DC voltage on speaker leads will not tell you what the positive or negative leads are. Some amplifiers have the - lead common to chassis ground and others are floating with no respect to ground, especially if the amplifier is transformer coupled. The + lead on an amplifier output is supposed to be the positive going phase and has nothing to do with any DC voltage that might be present.

Agreed ..... thanks for the input. Not really sure why everyone keeps re-explaining the battery method to check the +/- leads of a speaker... The battery method is great... and works excellent for determining which leads are the +/- of a "speaker" ... so I think we all an agree on this....
But in my case, as I stated initially, I was determining the +/- of the vehicle's "wiring" ... and for this testing you can most certainly determine the +/- with a multimeter.

 

[SargeDiesel]

Not at all. It seems in your example the radio is putting out some DC voltage on the speaker leads and that is unusual, and undesirable. I don't know of any amplifier that puts DC on speaker leads except a tiny sensing voltage to see if something is connected like earphones connected to a laptop, etc. Testing for DC voltage on speaker leads will not tell you what the positive or negative leads are. Some amplifiers have the - lead common to chassis ground and others are floating with no respect to ground, especially if the amplifier is transformer coupled. The + lead on an amplifier output is supposed to be the positive going phase and has nothing to do with any DC voltage that might be present.

Getting beyond me... as I am no electrician or audio expert... but I do know when I have used a multimeter to determine the +/- wire coming from the head unit/amp it has alway been correct... but after reading your comment, I would definitely have to do more research as to why/why not .... but thanks to everyone on the forum for their comments and help, I have my speakers/system set up correctly...

Maybe my explanation or examples are confusing.... so I attached a video that shows what I did... it also shows the battery method for checking the speaker itself... if interested, you can jump to the multimeter portion @ 2:35.

 

[Radio Guy]

I watched the video and its the part starting a 2:35 that I would not recommend as a way to determine speaker polarity on an amplifier. That can be done with some special hardware that feeds pulses into the amp then shows you if the speaker polarity is in or out of phase at the speaker. Or there may be a cell phone app that can connect to the amp and determine amplifier/speaker phase with the cell phone mic. You could also use a pulse generator into the amplifier and use an oscilloscope at the speaker leads.

I think the easiest way for most people to determine speaker WIRE polarity is to trust the vehicle mfr wiring is correct and see where the factory connected the wires to the + and - at the speakers, then identify the speaker polarity by a red or black terminal or +/- on the speaker, or using a battery or other trusted method. Or look up the wire colors on a factory wiring document. The chances of a vehicle factory wiring harness built wrong would be extremely rare.

Getting beyond me... as I am no electrician or audio expert... but I do know when I have used a multimeter to determine the +/- wire coming from the head unit/amp it has alway been correct... but after reading your comment, I would definitely have to do more research as to why/why not .... but thanks to everyone on the forum for their comments and help, I have my speakers/system set up correctly...

Maybe my explanation or examples are confusing.... so I attached a video that shows what I did... it also shows the battery method for checking the speaker itself... if interested, you can jump to the multimeter portion @ 2:35.

 

[SargeDiesel]

I think the easiest way for most people to determine speaker WIRE polarity is to trust the vehicle mfr wiring is correct and see where the factory connected the wires to the + and - at the speakers, then identify the speaker polarity by a red or black terminal or +/- on the speaker, or using a battery or other trusted method. Or look up the wire colors on a factory wiring document. The chances of a vehicle factory wiring harness built wrong would be extremely rare.

Agree 100 %
I did download the a cell phone app described as a polarity checker.... but without instructions its really wasn't helpful... its not just plug and play......
Although as mentioned.. its rare... but there have been reports of the harness being backwards.
I just finished the rear 3-1/2" speakers in the soundbar and the wiring was good, no need to change anything..... but when I get a chance I will go back and tripple check the front.

 

[Matts4313]

Agreed ..... thanks for the input. Not really sure why everyone keeps re-explaining the battery method to check the +/- leads of a speaker... The battery method is great... and works excellent for determining which leads are the +/- of a "speaker" ... so I think we all an agree on this....
But in my case, as I stated initially, I was determining the +/- of the vehicle's "wiring" ... and for this testing you can most certainly determine the +/- with a multimeter.

You arent crazy, you are spot on accurate.

Not at all. It seems in your example the radio is putting out some DC voltage on the speaker leads and that is unusual, and undesirable. I don't know of any amplifier that puts DC on speaker leads except a tiny sensing voltage to see if something is connected like earphones connected to a laptop, etc. Testing for DC voltage on speaker leads will not tell you what the positive or negative leads are. Some amplifiers have the - lead common to chassis ground and others are floating with no respect to ground, especially if the amplifier is transformer coupled. The + lead on an amplifier output is supposed to be the positive going phase and has nothing to do with any DC voltage that might be present.

Radio Guy, I think the issue that might be coming up is Jeep has actually reversed the polarity going to certain speakers... because.. Who the hell knows, reasons? I tested all my speaker wiring (multimeter) inside the vehicle today, verified them vs the wiring diagram and I additionally used a polarity tester. I can say with 99.99% certainty that the diagram isnt foolproof. I was a bit shocked to find this as I knew this was a possibility a year ago and was still fooled.

Also, you keep saying "amplifier" but he is talking about from the head unit. If it was coming from a traditional amplifier this wouldnt be an issue.

 

[Radio Guy]

Is the amplifier feeding the speakers in the "head unit"? If some speakers have been found to be wired out of phase does anyone know if this is consistent in other vehicles within the same model or just seen in a random vehicle? It is possible Jeep did acoustical measurements and wired the speakers in a non traditional way to optimize the sound.

You arent crazy, you are spot on accurate.



Radio Guy, I think the issue that might be coming up is Jeep has actually reversed the polarity going to certain speakers... because.. Who the hell knows, reasons? I tested all my speaker wiring (multimeter) inside the vehicle today, verified them vs the wiring diagram and I additionally used a polarity tester. I can say with 99.99% certainty that the diagram isnt foolproof. I was a bit shocked to find this as I knew this was a possibility a year ago and was still fooled.

Also, you keep saying "amplifier" but he is talking about from the head unit. If it was coming from a traditional amplifier this wouldnt be an issue.

 

[SargeDiesel]

Is the amplifier feeding the speakers in the "head unit"? If some speakers have been found to be wired out of phase does anyone know if this is consistent in other vehicles within the same model or just seen in a random vehicle? It is possible Jeep did acoustical measurements and wired the speakers in a non traditional way to optimize the sound.

In certain situations it is common to wire "out of phase".. the problem is there really isn't much information from Jeep on the audio system. Thinking of it... I really dont know where the diagram that is floating around originated from... I found it initially on the Wrangler forum... but where did it actually originate from ?

I believe my front dash speakers were wired backwards from the factory, but I will do another round of testing this weekend... I will probably use this opportunity to solder the terminals to the metra harness anyway instead of using the spade connectors.... so testing +/-again will not be a big deal... I will try to figure out a way to document it better.

 

[Radio Guy]

In the mid 70s through the early 80s I was a professional radio/car stereo installer and I've put in a lot of car stereos. I have never seen a case were any aftermarket speaker was wired out of phase on purpose and I've diagnosed some odd problems from other installs were someone accidently wired a speaker out of phase and the result was not subtle. As you move around inside the vehicle the bass will be different and it just sounds wrong.

But it is possible engineers at Jeep used modern audio analyzing equipment and found wiring some of the Jeep speakers out of phase results in a positive outcome. Who knows?

In certain situations it is common to wire "out of phase".. the problem is there really isn't much information from Jeep on the audio system. Thinking of it... I really dont know where the diagram that is floating around originated from... I found it initially on the Wrangler forum... but where did it actually originate from ?

I believe my front dash speakers were wired backwards from the factory, but I will do another round of testing this weekend... I will probably use this opportunity to solder the terminals to the metra harness anyway instead of using the spade connectors.... so testing +/-again will not be a big deal... I will try to figure out a way to document it better.

 

[SargeDiesel]

In the mid 70s through the early 80s I was a professional radio/car stereo installer and I've put in a lot of car stereos. I have never seen a case were any aftermarket speaker was wired out of phase on purpose and I've diagnosed some odd problems from other installs were someone accidently wired a speaker out of phase and the result was not subtle. As you move around inside the vehicle the bass will be different and it just sounds wrong.

But it is possible engineers at Jeep used modern audio analyzing equipment and found wiring some of the Jeep speakers out of phase results in a positive outcome. Who knows?

I should of specified.... I've seen it home audio.

 

[jebiruph]

I am not yet convinced that measurements made with a DC voltmeter of an audio signal that changes voltage faster than the DC voltmeter can detect, will be an accurate indication of the signal phase of the audio signal. I wanted to do some additional investigation and bought one of the cheap signal phase/polarity testers off of Amazon. Although I'm not real confident in these testers either based on comments from users with inconsistent results, it's not a lot of money so I decided to give it a try.

I have a 2018 JL and a 2020 JT, both with the same dash and sound bar speaker upgrades and Metra adapter wiring flipped so the factory designated + wire connects to the speaker +. The polarity tester indicated positive polarity with all the upgraded speakers, confirming the accuracy of the factory wiring diagram. But the lower dash factory speakers indicated negative polarity, so either the factory speaker polarity is reversed or the short patch wires (not shown on the diagram) that connect the lower dash speaker enclosure to the factory wires are reversed.

I reversed the polarity of the upgraded dash and sound bar speakers in the JL and confirmed with the polarity tester that all the speakers were in phase, all negative. Next I played the same music in the JL and JT and jumped back and for comparing the sound. There was an obvious improvement in the mid range and lower frequencies and an over all increased volume in the JL which would correspond with changing the lower dash speakers from out of phase to in phase. Finished up with making the same change to the JT, also using the tester to confirm that the speakers were now in phase.

I drove it this way for a couple weeks and occasionally perceived a new mid range harshness in some of my music. Wondering if maybe the out of phase lower dash speakers had selective improvement in some types of music, I swapped the JL's upgraded speakers back out of phase for additional evaluation. With the speakers out of phase, there was less mid range, so less mid range harshness, but again I confirmed that the over all sound quality was better with all the speakers in phase. I suspect the mid range harshness is a result of the additional mid range volume verses the acoustic characteristics of the JT/JL.

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