anyone else experience leaks from these 2020 Gladiator axle / differential "seal points"?

[DarkMatr]

anyone else experience leaks from these 2020 Gladiator axle / differential "seal points"?

2020 Gladiator
Leaking Front Differential / Axle leaking from round ~ nickel sized weld/seal area left of center. (note: there are 3 of these circular seal areas i could observe on the Axle. apparently these are "seal points" that are closed when the differential is made. they look like very sloppy slag type work.)

anyone else experience leaks from these axle "seal points"?

Dealer is trying to say its because of "impact" but there's no evidence of impact in the area. alignment does seem off by about a eighth to a quarter steering wheel turn. vehicle wanders left and right a bit at highway speeds and has done so since new. vehicle has ~12000 miles. Serviced at local dealer always. Dealer did not tell us about Steering TSB re wandering and death wobble..

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[ShadowsPapa]

anyone else experience leaks from these 2020 Gladiator axle / differential "seal points"?

2020 Gladiator
Leaking Front Differential / Axle leaking from round ~ nickel sized weld/seal area left of center. (note: there are 3 of these circular seal areas i could observe on the Axle. apparently these are "seal points" that are closed when the differential is made. they look like very sloppy slag type work.)

anyone else experience leaks from these axle "seal points"?

Dealer is trying to say its because of "impact" but there's no evidence of impact in the area. alignment does seem off by about a quarter steering wheel turn. vehicle wanders left and right a bit at highway speeds. vehicle has ~12000 miles. Serviced at local dealer always. Dealer did not tell us about Steering TSB re wandering and death wobble..

Are you talking where the tube is welded to the housing? Not sure what you mean by "seal point".
The only thing I can think of is - impact, something broke things loose.
And if your steering wheel is way off, that's another indication of "possible impact".
(you can't always tell by looking - my F250 was a great example - the impact was to a tire but it bent the steering knuckle on a heavy-duty 3/4 ton 4x4!)
Leaks at that weld are rare. That's been how differentials have been made for many decades.

The steering TSB isn't related to "death wobble". It is for wander, loose steering, pull or leading, etc. but not DW.
The steering TSB isn't something they will "tell you about" just because you visit.
If you do talk to them about "wander", or pull or "leading" then the TSB should come up.

If the steering wheel is off by a quarter of a steering wheel turn you have very serious problems! That means the steering wheel instead of "horizontal" is standing vertical! That's a whole 90 degrees!!
You can't mean that the steering wheel has to be turned 1/4 turn to go straight???

This one is off by a hell of a lot, but not even 1/8 turn, let alone quarter of a turn. If it was 1/4 I'd have to tip my head sideways to read the "Jeep" in the middle ->

In this example of a 1970 axle I was rebuilding -
A is where the differential case spreader gets a grip to spread the case when inserting the carrier.
B and C are where the tube is welded to the center casting.
There should be no weld in A
There should be welds in B and C in this example but it's not where it seals.

 

[DarkMatr]

Hi- i edited slightly and added pictures...please reference original post for pictures of the "seal point" that is leaking on the front axle behind the steering dampener. vehicle mostly drives straight, does wander though, such that the wife and kids don't like driving it on the highway. looks like the axles aren't made with much finish quality control. also note the slight leak at the bottom of the differential cover. anyone else have leaking from the front axle and differential cover like this?

 

[Hootbro]

Looks like it is leaking at the plug welds where they insert the outer tube into the main body and weld up. That should be a drivetrain warranty item. You need to find another dealer if you are getting pushback on that.

 

[DarkMatr]

is there any sense in their claim that wouldn't have happened without impact? i don't see how knocking an alignment out a bit, could cause the "plug weld" to fail, especially when there is no viewable impact in the area. they are trying to say that theoretical tire impact would somehow torque the Axle sufficiently to pop or fracture the plug welds....really???

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Looks like it is leaking at the plug welds where they insert the outer tube into the main body and weld up. That should be a drivetrain warranty item. You need to find another dealer if you are getting pushback on that.

Seeing the pics, that's where the leak appears to come from.
It would mean either the welds burned through the tube or there's physical damage.
The dealer should follow normal procedures for troubleshooting any leak - clean the heck out of it first, drive it a bit and recheck it.
If it's a burn-through they can scope for that as well.
That's the only ways you'll have a leak there.

is there any sense in their claim that wouldn't have happened without impact? i don't see how knocking an alignment out a bit, could cause the "plug weld" to fail, especially when there is no viewable impact in the area. they are trying to say that theoretical tire impact would somehow torque the Axle sufficiently to pop or fracture the plug welds....really???

It won't take an impact to THAT area to do it. and you can't always see "visible" or obvious impact.
I'm not saying they are right - just suggesting that you are thinking you must be able to SEE impact in that area and that's just not true. Running into a curb - doing like I did with my Comanche and sliding on ice into a curb with the wheels turned - that'll really mess things up and NO sign of impact on the axle tube
Yes, a tire impact CAN cause issues, it could have cracked the tube at the weld there.
Like I said - two choices:
Weld burned through at the factory
or
impact.
Get around trying to see a big bent piece of metal or scraped parts and messed up paint. A hit to something solid can crack things.
Again, NOT saying that IS it, but I am saying- yes, POSSIBLE.
I can't say likely - I'm not there.
I've had two major impacts to trucks I've owned and if you looked under the truck, you'd never see so much as a SCRATCH. Wheel and tire impacts.
Heck, the front steering and suspension of my father's Ranger was bent all to hell by an impact to the tire. It twisted the steering knuckle but looking under the truck - not a mark on anything.

I'm just saying after years of dealing with cars - you can't always see scraped paint or obvious impact. Just because you don't see something doesn't mean there was no impact.
But it could also be a defect - and about all I can think of is the weld burned through the tube. If that's the case, the leak will be VERY VERY easy to find.

People instantly think all dealers are out to rip you off or don't know anything.
May or may not be the case.
Don't assume either way.
Make them diagnose the leak - and demonstrate what type of damage they are claiming.

 

[Hootbro]

they are trying to say that theoretical tire impact would somehow torque the Axle sufficiently to pop or fracture the plug welds....really???

The more I think about it and look at it some more, it is theoretically possible a hard front tire impact on that side could break the weld. That side is the FAD side also and is prone to break when pushed hard.

Regardless, I still say the weld was a weak one to begin with but I can see how the dealership could push back and it becomes a pissing match.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

especially when there is no viewable impact in the area.

Please get past that part. Doesn't mean s@$!. I bet I could damage that and leave no trace.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The more I think about it and look at it some more, it is theoretically possible a hard front tire impact on that side could break the weld. That side is the FAD side also and is prone to break when pushed hard.

Regardless, I still say the weld was a weak one but I can see how the dealership could push back and it becomes a pissing match.

We've seen several instances of people showing breakage in that area - from impacts.
I just wish someone could get past "I don't see impact in that area". Means zip.
I hell of a pot hole can do damage (I busted an axle in a pot hole)
My brother busted an axle and flipped a car when he hit railroad tracks wrong. No impact evidence under either vehicle because the impact was to the tire which can only absorb so much. Turn that wheel, and......
Then let's add to it - the steering wheel is way off. It's a clue, IMO.
People are forgetting the steering wheel is way off center.

 

[Hootbro]

I just wish someone could get past "I don't see impact in that area". Means zip.

You are coming in a little hot on the OP. Give him the benefit of the doubt. He has not stated he has had any impact events and had a alignment issue since picking it up. Damage could have happened before he took delivery and the seep is very minimal. His only sin so far is accepting the vehicle to begin with letting it ride out to 12K miles to address.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

You are coming in a little hot on the OP. Give him the benefit of the doubt. He has not stated he has had any impact events and had a alignment issue since picking it up. Damage could have happened before he took delivery and the seep is very minimal. His only sin so far is accepting the vehicle to begin with letting it ride out to 12K miles to address.

Valid points.

I'm only meaning - and poorly said - not seeing evidence of impact at a given point of leak doesn't mean there wasn't physical damage caused by impact in another area.

In fact, impact on the outer end of an axle tube is more likely to do damage than impact on the inside end due to the leverage of the force.
I'd bet on damage being pre-purchase. We've seen how some vehicles get treated.

The seep is indeed very minimal.

 

[49Gramps]

The first 3 photos look like it's leaking by the FAD, which I would think might be warranty. The last pic, however, shows some impact damage to the bottom of the diff cover, housing, and one of the cover bolts.

 

[Rusty PW]

What I have seen over the years with plug welds. Normally it's a lack of penetration into the axle tube. All the weld heat is in the casting, not the tube. Because of this. It will let the axle tube to wiggle or unseat a little bit. This will give just enough clearance for the lube to find it's way out.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

What I have seen over the years with plug welds. Normally it's a lack of penetration into the axle tube. All the weld heat is in the casting, not the tube. Because of this. It will let the axle tube to wiggle or unseat a little bit. This will give just enough clearance for the lube to find it's way out.

You'd be able to detect that, though. At least that's my experience. I've seen guys loosen the tubes from the torque of drag racing. You can tell.
Look for signs like any rust, the weld itself should show signs. I've not looked at these but there should also be more than one such weld - the other should show the signs of a problem.

 

[Rusty PW]

You'd be able to detect that, though. At least that's my experience. I've seen guys loosen the tubes from the torque of drag racing. You can tell.
Look for signs like any rust, the weld itself should show signs. I've not looked at these but there should also be more than one such weld - the other should show the signs of a problem.

The plug welds look normal until you grind them out to be rewelded. There you find a void area where there is no weld between the case and the tube.

On my Power Wagon. I welded the tubes to the case after one of the guys on the Power Wagon forum rotated his rear pumpkin almost straight up during a tractor pulling contest at a local county fair. Sheared all 6 plug welds on the tubes on a AAM 10.5 axle. I'm planning to weld the axle tubes on my JT this spring.

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