Ford Losing Billions on EV’s

[ZoMojave]

Range matters... Elon Musk will tell you it doesn't, but 20min for a basic charge doesn't cut it. I'm not paying 100k for an electric F150 that can't go over 200 miles on a full charge, less miles if your towing or driving over 70mph against the wind.

And MUCH less range if it is below 40 degrees.

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[Summitsearcher]

Alright, alright. I love EV’s especially when playing golf. My personal opinion is the infrastructure just has not caught up with the production and public trust in the ability to utilize it to its perceived potential. Yes, development of this technology can be cumbersome and expensive. Logic jumps in and says ”hey if what I’m doing is working, why mess with it?” Or better yet, why force me into a technology that hasn’t worked out the issues of how not to freeze in a blizzard or Hold a charge sufficiently to tow or travel at will without waiting for a charge on an already tight schedule. EV’s show great promise, but the whole US is not a golf course and EV’s are not golf carts good for a days round. It’s a great promise but not a guarantee, at least not yet. Until then I’m gonna gas and go.

 

[ZoMojave]

As mentioned earlier. Breitbart readers are the neo-con version of hipsters.

"UGH lemme guess you take your coffee with milk. Pfft. I pity the people still stuck on cow based products and willfully ignorant."

How can you tell a Breitbart reader? Don't worry, they will tell you within 10 seconds you're reading the wrong media.

"UGH lemme guess you get your news from CNN or perhaps MSNBC. Pfft I pity the people still stuck on MSM and willfully ignorant."

Same shit, both arrogant entitled pricks and the actually willfully disconnected from reality folks.

Hipsters and breitbart readers are the same shitty type of people just different starting points. Need convincing? Look back at all the prior pro breitbart posts here and replace 'MSM and ignorant' with 'milk and soy' and it's the same shitty people.

Both sides suck at life.

People still follow the news? I turned my back on that years ago and it has made life so much sweeter.

 

[texanjeeper]

It's always interesting how discussion of the EV shortcomings brings out the worst in some types of people. Not saying which type.

Look, I'd like for EV's to be ready for prime time, but in my opinion they are not. Neither is the infrastructure for everybody having one. That being the case, why don't people realize this, and push for better infrastructure, where it wouldn't be a total joke if everybody had an EV charging in their driveway every night? Or two? And, I'm sorry, but a company that thinks being able to get 15-25 miles from an EV charge is actually competing, is deluded to the extreme. That is another joke, and not a funny one. When it's possible for a Gladiator to get about 100 miles on a charge, let me know. Now, we're talking about something that might be both competitive, and useful.

 

[RubiNewbCB]

People still follow the news? I turned my back on that years ago and it has made life so much sweeter.

?...?...?...

 

[j.o.y.ride]

People still follow the news? I turned my back on that years ago and it has made life so much sweeter.

Even setting aside the slant that each outlet has, the issue with 'the news' is you end up missing out on a huge variety of topics they either don't have time to cover or choose not to cover.

 

[coalcracker]

This thread took a weird turn, jeez.

Getting back to the original joke/point, it is interesting that Ford can take such a loss on the business unit devoted to EVs, yet still remain profitable overall. I guess it really is all of those folks paying $100K+ for Broncos keeping them afloat.

Also funny: the polarization about EVs, and how if you suggest that they are expensive (they are!), or that the charging infrastructure isn’t quite where it needs to be yet (true, although it’s being built out as we speak), you‘re treated as though you’re a hater, and expected, ”as part of the community” to ”be better” about discussing this topic. Even though those discussions about cost and infrastructure are valid.

Finally, I’m always amused by the folks who rush to tell you about how a Chevy Bolt can be had for $25K, and therefore, because it exists at that price, EVs are not expensive. That’s great. But if I’m looking for a truck or SUV, the Chevy Bolt doesn’t fit that use case, so the price of one of those is irrelevant.

 

[Wheelin98TJ]

Alright, everybody let’s take a time out. Let’s get back to talking about shitty EV’s. Not sure but there’s something about ‘em I just don’t like, kinda like fake t%ts.

If I had to choose…

Fake boobs > EVs

 

[Not2Late]

I am waiting for the same thing that happed with VCR's when they first came out. I remember the early ones were something like $1,200 (in the early 1980's!). And that was for the top-loading ones; not sure how that worked in my Hi-Fi cabinet... We actually rented the VCRs at the same time we picked out the movies at the rental place. Ok, really showing my age here. But, after several years, you could finally get one for $100. Same thing happened with Blu Ray players. Is Blu Ray even a thing anymore now with 4k or more?

I think it is absolutely great that there are "early adopters" that can afford to buy EVs and other emerging technologies that keep allowing(funding) the creators of those things to build a better mouse trap as time goes on.

Me, I am waiting. Also, I have a sneaking suspicion that auto manufactures have been too quick to abandon gas powered vehicles. Not sure a whole ton of people are going to sign up for EVs just yet. Ford is making a huge, it seems all-in bet, and I am sure they are pretty nervous about it.

 

[dcmdon]

And MUCH less range if it is below 40 degrees.

Range isn't a big deal IFFFF

1) you can find a place to charge as easily as you can find a gas station.
2) charging took 5 - 10 minutes like it takes to fill a car.

THISS is the problem. Not range.

Huge range is a band aid for lack of charging infrastructure and long charge times.

All of these things will sort themselves out eventually.

Range matters... Elon Musk will tell you it doesn't, but 20min for a basic charge doesn't cut it. I'm not paying 100k for an electric F150 that can't go over 200 miles on a full charge, less miles if your towing or driving over 70mph against the wind.

The average Tesla has a range greater than our Gladiators.

But I'd never own one. Because of the reasons I hi lighted above. Charging infrastructure and charge times.

It gets even worse for non-teslas. Tesla has the best charging infrastructure on the planet and most of it is proprietary. So the schmo with the F150 or Mustang Mach-E can't charge their vehicle there.

When there is a place where a BEV owner can charge up off of every exit on an interstate, like it is now with gas, and when that charge takes 10 minutes, then adoption will be inevitable.

 

[dcmdon]

As mentioned earlier. Breitbart readers are the neo-con version of hipsters.

"UGH lemme guess you take your coffee with milk. Pfft. I pity the people still stuck on cow based products and willfully ignorant."

How can you tell a Breitbart reader? Don't worry, they will tell you within 10 seconds you're reading the wrong media.

"UGH lemme guess you get your news from CNN or perhaps MSNBC. Pfft I pity the people still stuck on MSM and willfully ignorant."

Same shit, both arrogant entitled pricks and the actually willfully disconnected from reality folks.

Hipsters and breitbart readers are the same shitty type of people just different starting points. Need convincing? Look back at all the prior pro breitbart posts here and replace 'MSM and ignorant' with 'milk and soy' and it's the same shitty people.

Both sides suck at life.

Idiot liberals - Watch MSNBC and read Huffington Post and think they are the truth with no exposure to opposing view points.

Idiot conservatives - Read Breitbard and watch Fox with no exposure to opposing view points.

Smart liberals and conservatives read The Atlantic and National Review and don't pay attention to anything they watch. Though it's fun to watch liberal Bill Maher bash the woke left.

 

[dcmdon]

I am waiting for the same thing that happed with VCR's when they first came out. I remember the early ones were something like $1,200 (in the early 1980's!). And that was for the top-loading ones; not sure how that worked in my Hi-Fi cabinet... We actually rented the VCRs at the same time we picked out the movies at the rental place. Ok, really showing my age here. But, after several years, you could finally get one for $100. Same thing happened with Blu Ray players. Is Blu Ray even a thing anymore now with 4k or more?

I think it is absolutely great that there are "early adopters" that can afford to buy EVs and other emerging technologies that keep allowing(funding) the creators of those things to build a better mouse trap as time goes on.

Me, I am waiting. Also, I have a sneaking suspicion that auto manufactures have been too quick to abandon gas powered vehicles. Not sure a whole ton of people are going to sign up for EVs just yet. Ford is making a huge, it seems all-in bet, and I am sure they are pretty nervous about it.

I have a friend who actually bought the base $39,995 Ford F150 Lightning. Deal of the century.

He's got solar and wanted an off grid battery. He paid less for the F150 than he would have paid for just the 100 kwh in batteries. He calls it an off-grid battery system that came with a free truck.

 

[SteveInOrlando]

I get there are multiple articles from multiple sources, but reality is I trust car manufacturer's accounting about as much as I trust Hollywood accounting for when a movie makes and loses money. Convincing people EVs cost more to build is useful for keeping perceived barriers to entry high, keeping customers thinking they are buying a premium product for less than it cost to make, and keeping MSRPs high as the next round of EV tax credits expire.

There is a cost to changing over operations to produce battery powered vehicles. If they currently only manufactured battery powered vehicles and were switching over to produce only gas powered vehicles, it would cost billions of dollars.

Of course they write that off as a loss, but that loss is a temporary thing. They will return to earning straight profit in the billions of dollars in a very very short period of time. Look how fast they bounced back from supposedly going bankrupt a few years back.

 

[Rusty PW]

I would post something. But I already have 2 strikes against me. So I will post this.

 

[dcmdon]

There is a cost to changing over operations to produce battery powered vehicles. If they currently only manufactured battery powered vehicles and were switching over to produce only gas powered vehicles, it would cost billions of dollars.

Of course they write that off as a loss, but that loss is a temporary thing. They will return to earning straight profit in the billions of dollars in a very very short period of time. Look how fast they bounced back from supposedly going bankrupt a few years back.

And it isn't even really a net loss.

It's funded internally by money thrown off by their gas powered business. So it's not like they are asking for a loan from the Government for this to happen.

This is one of the joys of capitalism. It doesn't require Government spending to remake how the auto industry works. The same can be said of building out the charging infrastructure.

It's the same kind of decision companies make every day. At what point, and to what degree do we make the investment in capital based on our analysis of potential markets and profits.

Tax credits for BEVS certainly do distort the market and are speeding their adoption. But even without the incentives, there would be progress. Just slower progress.

When the tech matures, you will have a vehicle that costs no more than a gas powered vehicle, has twice the power, charges in the time it takes to fill your tank AND can also be charged at home for day to day driving so you will only have to visit a public charger when you are traveling.

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