I kind of thought my 8 spd transmission had issues, now I'm kind of thinking it is....

[DailyMoparGuy]

Yup. I’ve owned 3 different FCA vehicles with the 8 speed, and they all were clunky in traffic sometimes. It’s inconsistent too it seems. Some days the thing shifts smoother than butter in traffic. The Ram 1500 I had was the worst…that thing had a mind of its own.

Great for spirited driving though. Especially for someone who grew up driving Hondas/Acuras (terrible transmissions)

Sponsored

 

[Rahkmalla]

I always like comments that say , BMW's have their issues, about every friend we have owns a BMW of some sort. My wife And I alone have owned 7 over the past 16 yrs and not one has ever given a issue. A couple we put over 200,000 miles on. I currently own a 2013 BMW 328I Xdrive coupe with 158,000 miles on it and the Wife has a 2016 BmW X5 50i with 78,000 miles. No one I know has ever had a issue with them. You stay up on the maintenance and they are solid. I've own about every brand you can think of since 1996 when the wife and I got married. BMW's have been the most reliable of any brand and that's including the one Mercedes we had in 2014.

BMW has one of the highest rates of lemons per new car sold. Well over industry average. BMWs also have one of the highest lease:buy rates of any manufacturer (though in fairness, the other luxury brands are right there together, i think MB is the highest and lexus the lowest among luxury brands from memory) and we all know leased cars are treated just slightly better than Avis.

Knowing this, it raises a few questions:
1. Is BMW's poor reputation based on hit or miss initial build quality, or are luxury marques less likely to fight a lemon law settlement because they are more interested in protecting their reputation? (most of the luxury marques are up there in lemons per car sold, though not lexus or acura)
2. Is BMW's poor reputation based on ill maintained cars bought used? And if so, is part of the problem that used car buyers are stretching to impress without considering the parts cost differential of luxury brands and German brands, and expensive repairs impact personal views of reliability even if unfairly? It's not unreasonable to assume some people will remember the dollar value spent more so than time in shop.
3. And finally, has BMW truly recovered from the reliability crisis affecting the german luxury trio of the oughts? There were a multitude of articles written about these problems by many well respected publications in both the automotive and traditional journalism spheres over the entire decade, with the one I remember most vividly being a cover story called "The Fall of the Three Pointed Star" with the photo being a busted up MB hood ornament. Though the article discussed BMW, MB and Audi in equal measure.

I don't have many friends with BMWs anymore. I used to. They were all one and done owners, citing shop time as the number one issue. Though they did love BMW dealerships' generous loaner policy, it jsut wasn't worth it for them. The only friend left who still has a BMW only keeps it because there were special warranty rules about PHEVs years ago and his 3 series is under a ludicrous factory warranty that covers ANY emissions or vaguely emissions related component for an almost unheard-of amount of time. His experience with that vehicle is the second the warranty expires, so does his ownership.

I have no personal experience because frankly the only BMWs that excite me are ones I can't and/or don't want to afford (7er, 8er coupe, or a B3)

 

[ATL_Rubi]

My wife has a X3M, my brother in law a m240i, both are absolute butter in traffic compared to my Jeep. To speak to maintenance, no issues with either. The m240i is FBO (DP, stage 2+ tune, intake, full exhaust, upgraded injectors and pump) w/ ~450 awhp and the X3M is stock. Both around the same mileage, ~45000ish. I think the larger part is the owners of BMWs end up skimping on service costs and that leads to a poor representation of quality.

 

[Jeeperjamie]

BMW has one of the highest rates of lemons per new car sold. Well over industry average. BMWs also have one of the highest lease:buy rates of any manufacturer (though in fairness, the other luxury brands are right there together, i think MB is the highest and lexus the lowest among luxury brands from memory) and we all know leased cars are treated just slightly better than Avis.

Knowing this, it raises a few questions:
1. Is BMW's poor reputation based on hit or miss initial build quality, or are luxury marques less likely to fight a lemon law settlement because they are more interested in protecting their reputation? (most of the luxury marques are up there in lemons per car sold, though not lexus or acura)
2. Is BMW's poor reputation based on ill maintained cars bought used? And if so, is part of the problem that used car buyers are stretching to impress without considering the parts cost differential of luxury brands and German brands, and expensive repairs impact personal views of reliability even if unfairly? It's not unreasonable to assume some people will remember the dollar value spent more so than time in shop.
3. And finally, has BMW truly recovered from the reliability crisis affecting the german luxury trio of the oughts? There were a multitude of articles written about these problems by many well respected publications in both the automotive and traditional journalism spheres over the entire decade, with the one I remember most vividly being a cover story called "The Fall of the Three Pointed Star" with the photo being a busted up MB hood ornament. Though the article discussed BMW, MB and Audi in equal measure.

I don't have many friends with BMWs anymore. I used to. They were all one and done owners, citing shop time as the number one issue. Though they did love BMW dealerships' generous loaner policy, it jsut wasn't worth it for them. The only friend left who still has a BMW only keeps it because there were special warranty rules about PHEVs years ago and his 3 series is under a ludicrous factory warranty that covers ANY emissions or vaguely emissions related component for an almost unheard-of amount of time. His experience with that vehicle is the second the warranty expires, so does his ownership.

I have no personal experience because frankly the only BMWs that excite me are ones I can't and/or don't want to afford (7er, 8er coupe, or a B3)

Never heard of this and I would by personal experience alone buy a BMW over any vehicle made other than a Porsche. I'd put Porsche and BMW side by side as far as top tier vehicles. The next vehicle the wife or I buy will be a Porsche but make no mistake I'll always have a BMW sitting in the driveway. I've never had 1 issue with any of mine and the friends I know with Porsches have no issues either. Both makers do require certain things to be done to maintain them and keep them running right but it's well worth it for the ride quality and piece of mind you get. I'm not saying some bmw owners haven't had issues but I'd be willing to bet not maintaining proper maintenance play's a big role in people's issues. I guess that could be said about any manufacturer though.

 

[Jeeperjamie]

My wife has a X3M, my brother in law a m240i, both are absolute butter in traffic compared to my Jeep. To speak to maintenance, no issues with either. The m240i is FBO (DP, stage 2+ tune, intake, full exhaust, upgraded injectors and pump) w/ ~450 awhp and the X3M is stock. Both around the same mileage, ~45000ish. I think the larger part is the owners of BMWs end up skimping on service costs and that leads to a poor representation of quality.

This ,totally agree. My old M3 was joy to drive and the m440i we had was equal, I miss both. I actually almost bought a 2016 M4 this week from a place I sold a car to. I'm still on the fence on if I want to sell my 2013 328i and grab it. My wife's X5 50i is butter in traffic as well, I love driving it. Twin turbo V8, with amazing handling even a 140 mph on the interstate, yeah what's not to love. A picture of the M4 in consideration.

 

[obrianmcc]

Mine runs impressively smooth ... that has actually been one of my praises of this 8spd. You might confirm oil level ... you mentioned being a 2022.... mines a 20' ... I opted to do a dump and flush at 30k miles. I do not for a second buy into the lifetime fluid that Jeep claims, especially when the ZF documentation conflicts. Not all will agree, but I do spend some time off-road and also towing ... it was not that expensive to have my dealer perform the service and they also agreed with my sentiment of the lifetime fluid.

.... now if you want to experince a hard shifting trans ... drive the Ford 10spd .... that thing is possessed!

 

[56cbr600rr]

Mine runs impressively smooth ... that has actually been one of my praises of this 8spd. You might confirm oil level ... you mentioned being a 2022.... mines a 20' ... I opted to do a dump and flush at 30k miles. I do not for a second buy into the lifetime fluid that Jeep claims, especially when the ZF documentation conflicts. Not all will agree, but I do spend some time off-road and also towing ... it was not that expensive to have my dealer perform the service and they also agreed with my sentiment of the lifetime fluid.

.... now if you want to experince a hard shifting trans ... drive the Ford 10spd .... that thing is possessed!

Overall I DO love the transmission. Just believe it is a little "off" in stop and go traffic..

The Ford 10spd... Tell me about it. I had a new 2018 F-150 thats transmission was great at first. After a year or so it went to hell. Shifted hard. Also, the 5.0 in it was using 3 qts of oil every 5k miles. Since new.

Sold it.

 

[Mjolnir]

Mine sounds (sounded) similar to what you are mentioning. 2020 model. I am at 58,xxx and just had mine completely replaced under powertrain warranty.

Two weeks ago it started throwing codes and was hard shifting between 3-5. Dealership stated they wanted to replace the TCM but that would only fix it for a week at most. Pushed and got a new trans. Just picked it up yesterday and I no longer have clunking moving out of park, and obviously no bad shifting from 3-5 anymore.

Best of luck

 

[XJADDICTION]

The max tow with 4:10’s and those tiny tires suck, make the transmission downshift hard and act a bit clunky in traffic especially. I think it’s the computer trying to figure out what gear to be in and with low gear ratio and small tires first gear is a jump to second gear. So in traffic 1st and 2nd even 3rd can cause some hard shifts or sudden low when down shifting in those gears (slows the truck down with a jerk) gear changes. Once I went from stock tires to the 37 BFG AT KO’s, honestly the most perfect tire and size for the JT IMOP, with 4:10’s, the hard shifting went away. My JT has a lot of power with the stock gears and 37’s. I don’t see 8th gear very often but in the flats it will go into 8th. The jeep will run 80 mph all day long including steep interstate mountain climbs (yes it down shifts but doesn’t scream).
I know what torque and power are because I’ve always (until now) have had diesel one ton trucks. I own a Mustang currently, slightly built coyote motored 5.0 manual. That car will dance to a 140 mph in 5th gear in a hurry, still climbing in speed in 6th gear. I surprised a Mercedes-AMG GT 63 S by smoking it when he wanted a race from about 30 mph start… i know what speed is.

So I think the JT does really well as heavy as mine is and with the 3.5” lift, bumper and winch on 37’s.

 

[bd100]

My family years ago stopped having auto transmission problems when we started having the fluid changed every now and then. Many of them I did myself.

Most recently I had a vehicle which was doing exactly the above, shifting hard out of park, etc., and yet again a fluid change took care of the problem.

And both differentials in my truck were low, a bit in front and more in back. Maybe they're intentionally putting in "just enough" fluids instead of the full amount in order to save $ in manufacturing.

 

[56cbr600rr]

The max tow with 4:10’s and those tiny tires suck, make the transmission downshift hard and act a bit clunky in traffic especially. I think it’s the computer trying to figure out what gear to be in and with low gear ratio and small tires first gear is a jump to second gear. So in traffic 1st and 2nd even 3rd can cause some hard shifts or sudden low when down shifting in those gears (slows the truck down with a jerk) gear changes. Once I went from stock tires to the 37 BFG AT KO’s, honestly the most perfect tire and size for the JT IMOP, with 4:10’s, the hard shifting went away. My JT has a lot of power with the stock gears and 37’s. I don’t see 8th gear very often but in the flats it will go into 8th. The jeep will run 80 mph all day long including steep interstate mountain climbs (yes it down shifts but doesn’t scream).
I know what torque and power are because I’ve always (until now) have had diesel one ton trucks. I own a Mustang currently, slightly built coyote motored 5.0 manual. That car will dance to a 140 mph in 5th gear in a hurry, still climbing in speed in 6th gear. I surprised a Mercedes-AMG GT 63 S by smoking it when he wanted a race from about 30 mph start… i know what speed is.

So I think the JT does really well as heavy as mine is and with the 3.5” lift, bumper and winch on 37’s.

Good to know. I was wondering if larger tires might settle it down some.. I've got 35 Duratracs, just haven't had them installed yet.

 

[HappyGladiator]

My trans is just fine. But IMO,, the true cost in a vehicle is the deprecation. I think my JTR will be solid. For those that know,, how well do the MB, BMW, and others hold their value past the 5 year point. Maintenance is another thing. I will do all my filters and fluids in my garage along with brakes.

 

[HankB]

I'm still not 100% checked out on the difference between the Z850HP and the Z850RE.

Once upon a time i was led to believe the RE is a ZF designed transmission licensed to FCA to build themselves. Leading me to believe the HP is built in germany by ZF and the RE is built in the US/Mexico by FCA. But upon looking for confirmation of that, it's difficult to find.

I hear of a lot more failures on the 50RE than i do on the 50HP though.

The 850RE 850HP are versions of the ZF 8HP transmission family. These are built under license from ZF by FCA. The RE is the gas version and HP is the diesel version.

This transmission is used in a number of European brands, it’s in the wife’s SQ5 and a friend’s Porsche Cayenne as well as a number of BMW models as others have noted. In European models it has been marketed under the name Tiptronic, although I believe Porsche is the only one who actually Used that name in the US.

There are a number of predecessor transmissions in 5,6,7 speed versions that have also used the name Tiptronic. The 964 version of the Porsche 911 (87?-94) was the first Porsche to use the Tiptronic transmission, so the basic design has been around for quite a while.

The big point that a lot of folks miss is that this transmission was originally intended to be a transmission meant to be regularly shifted by the driver but could be placed in automatic when in traffic. So plopping it in D and just driving it through the day in auto probably isn’t reaching its full potential. I have not drawn any conclusions on what impact manual shifting has on fuel mileage.

 

[Rahkmalla]

The 850RE 850HP are versions of the ZF 8HP transmission family. These are built under license from ZF by FCA. The RE is the gas version and HP is the diesel version.

The 850HP is definitely not the diesel transmission. The diesel gets the 875HP and is not built under license to my knowledge. The 50HP is used a lot in BMWs and comes in a couple alfas.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Keep in mind these not only "learn", they try to anticipate things based on engine torque, rate of deceleration or speed change and so on - and unlike other transmissions of the past, these will drop 2 gears at a time instead of going from 7 to 6, then right away from 6 to 5, for example. So instead of the one at a time if it deems you will need the other gear, it drops down 2 when it downshifts. We're used to a transmission going through gears one at a time, this one will skip gears.
It's more efficient and saves wear on the transmission in the long run.

You can also blame the 3.6 for some of that - the lack of power and torque of the 3.6
Drive a Wrangler 4xe with their ZF 8 speed (yeah, totally different animal, but then again, not really) and it's smooooth as silk. Why? The crazy torque of the 4xe. You hardly ever see downshifts when going up a hill - where my JT might hunt or go up and down, the 4xe 8 speed stays in a gear and simply applied more torque to get up that hill. The 3.6 needs to drop down a couple of gears, but 4xe doesn't.
You want smooth shifting and literally a small fraction of the gear shifting you see in the JT 8 speed, drive a Wrangler 4xe. Talk about holding the higher gears. My JT would have dropped 3 gears to get up some of the hills my wife's Jeep takes without dropping a single gear, or maybe dropping down 1 at the most.

Sponsored