Jeep Technician (And Gladiator Owner) Discusses Common Questions and Problems on TrailRecon

[SSinGA]

I took my 2020 JL in for the steering box upgrade. I was denied because of aftermarket wheels and tires. It has 315 BFG AT's on Mopar beadlock wheels. I told the service writer, "You realize those are the exact same tires and wheels that are on the XR parked on your showroom floor right?" Crickets.
Lost a customer forever. I kinda liked that dealer too.

Click-bait video IMO.

#1 problem w/Jeep is the volume of crap-tastic dealers out there.

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[lo-fi]

Light on details for sure but I like to listen to forum outsiders for two reasons.

One, many people buy engine modifications and proclaim how great they are. You know what most don't do? Before and after on properly calibrated dynos, (similar weather conditions would be great to). Most car enthusiasts jump on forums and say hey I bought this cold air intake, performance exhaust, plug-in tuner, etc. and... you know what's coming... the butt dyno says its great. I'm not having that nonsense because that is what it is, nonsense. If you've got the money to mod your new Gladiator, for the love of god, go to a dyno and verify your "gains". And then put a dollar per HP/torque value on it. I subscribe to trust but verify.

Two, many people on forums aren't completely honest about how much they like their high end purchases. Additionally, many people who complain on forums can be less than forthcoming about what they did to screw up what it is they bought.

So yes, I listen to forum outsiders and the forum members, pick and choose what makes sense, and dig deeper into the things that are either seemingly nonsense or at a minimum counter intuitive.

I'm still data gathering at 35,000 ft. I'll hone in on details as I digest all this information. Right now I don't even know who is who (meaning generally accepted as being authoritative) on youtube with respect to these Jeeps.

 

[SSinGA]

Light on details for sure but I like to listen to forum outsiders for two reasons.

One, many people buy engine modifications and proclaim how great they are. You know what most don't do? Before and after on properly calibrated dynos, (similar weather conditions would be great to). Most car enthusiasts jump on forums and say hey I bought this cold air intake, performance exhaust, plug-in tuner, etc. and... you know what's coming... the butt dyno says its great. I'm not having that nonsense because that is what it is, nonsense. If you've got the money to mod your new Gladiator, for the love of god, go to a dyno and verify your "gains". And then put a dollar per HP/torque value on it.

Two, many people on forums aren't completely honest about how much they like their high end purchases. Additionally, many people who complain on forums can be less than forthcoming about what they did to screw up what it is they bought.

So yes, I listen to forum outsiders and the forum members, pick and choose what makes sense, and dig deeper into the things that are either seemingly nonsense or at a minimum counter intuitive.

I'm still data gathering at 35,000 ft. I'll hone in on details as I digest all this information. Right now I don't even know who is who (meaning generally accepted as being authoritative) on youtube with respect to these Jeeps.

The "outsiders" are often retailers or installers of certain brands or don't offer a particular service and not exactly honest either.

You defiantly need to read between the lines from all sources.

 

[Wolf Island Diver]

Just my BS opinion on this….

- All the dont mod your 3.6 engine stuff is pretty obvious. Most people don’t do it because it’s expensive and involved. It’s a 1% thing.

- Number 2. Check the lower track bar bolt. Check the ball joints. Check tie rod and drag link bolts. Check the track bar bolt. Check the track bar bolt. I used to carry spare track bar bolts in my lifted TJ because they would flex and shatter. These were hardened factory 12.6 bolts. Did I mention the track bar bolt? Also bad alignment and bad geometry puts more strain on all these connections. Long arm 4”+ lifts on TJs were notorious for this.

- Number 3 taking the long view, Yes Toyota is more reliable. Is Year X Toyota more reliable than Year X Jeep? Not necessarily. Are modern Toyotas more reliable than modern Jeeps. On the whole, no.

- Number 7. I had a 2004. It was the most reliable vehicle I’ve ever had. But this is an unfair comparison. There was nothing to it and they had been refining the engine for decades. The JL/JT is radically more complex. The new Jeeps are more comfortable, carry more, tow more, are quieter, drive better, safer, etc. They’re pretty reliable considering the jump in complexity, safety requirements and emissions requirements. If Daimler made a Jeep like the JL or JT back in 2004 it would have been a pig.

- Number 5. How are lifts covered by warranty or cause an issue that gets warrantied? Are these mopar lifts? I think this is a throwaway. I would agree that lifts cause the most issues but those issues mostly concern the suspension components themselves or overall drivability not warranty stuff. Dealerships would touch lifted Jeeps if that was the case.

- Number 9. Not if you get the diesel.

- Number 10. People are forgetting the multiple head problems and the sand casting nightmare. These engines were constantly having problems. The JK forums in 13’ were just 24/7 Pentastar complaints. Mine was a lemon. The new Pentastar is more reliable, long term is probably still an open question.

- Number 11 is interesting one. It probably gets the most complaints from owners. People don’t like start/stop so they complain. That doesn’t necessarily reflect on its reliability. However my dealership told me that it’s the single largest cause of warranty issues.
They warranty it because the batteries fail or the ESS system itself fails not because people hate ESS. They told me after replacing both batteries under warranty when they failed suddenly, to 86 the Aux and disable the system with a Tazer. So it seems ESS implementation is both unpopular and legitimately problematic.

 

[SargeDiesel]

Interesting Jeep will warranty their lift kit which does NOT correct all the geometry changes, but not others which do. Hmmm...

Don't they also sell and warranty the AEV 370 upgrade as a new vehicle?

What geometry issues changes does the Mopar lift cause ?

 

[troverman]

Inline-6 motors are just hard to screw up. Off the top of my head, the 4.0, Ford 300, and Chrysler slant-6 were just unkillable motors. BMW, Toyota, and Nissan had some pretty awesome I-6 motors as well. Bonus on the SOHC and DOHC motors is only one head to deal with so they were significantly smaller and much easier to work on versus the V6s. Though on a motorcycle gimmie a nice horizontally opposed engine. The Gold Wing motor on my 78 is sooooo easy to work on.

The Mercedes M104 inline 6 engine from the mid 90's was also an amazing engine in terms of reliability and longevity. DOHC / 24V with VVT on the intake side.

In terms of bikes, as much as you like your Goldwing flat engine, in my experience not much is easier to work on than an air cooled Harley or BMW. Modern Goldwing H-6 is a very complex engine.

Back to Jeep - they are quite reliable, overall, based upon number of problems per thousand vehicles sold. Reading this forum would make a person think they are guaranteed to have cam / rocker problems on a Pentastar even if they change their oil and filter every 500 miles with Amsoil. Its not true, far more Pentastars make it to very high mileage without issues than the ones that have problems. Just because its a "common" issue doesn't mean inevitable.

 

[TwelveGaugeSage]

In terms of bikes, as much as you like your Goldwing flat engine, in my experience not much is easier to work on than an air cooled Harley or BMW. Modern Goldwing H-6 is a very complex engine.

Yeah, air cooled singles and twins are as easy as it gets. Those air cooled BMW boxers are wonderfully simple. I guess I have just been working on a lot of inline-4s lately, and they are a real PITA to get to everything. The Gold Wing flat 4 is so much easier to work on. 5 minutes to synch the carbs and adjust idles, super easy valve adjustments. Even the timing belts are relatively simple to change out.

 

[DaveL]

Way-back...my Mechanical Engineering Professor told me that in line sixes are perfectly balanced. My own experience is limited to in-line BMW engines. Some M3's. Some were chipped. Some 5 series bimmers. They were a delight to own and drive. My take: superior design, and back then some were well built. (Though the 2003 M3 SMG transmission was awful ).

 

[troverman]

Way-back...my Mechanical Engineering Professor told me that in line sixes are perfectly balanced. My own experience is limited to in-line BMW engines. Some M3's. Some were chipped. Some 5 series bimmers. They were a delight to own and drive. My take: superior design, and back then some were well built. (Though the 2003 M3 SMG transmission was awful ).

The Mercedes I-6 engines were, in my opinion, more durable than the BMW I-6 engines. Of course, M-B gave up on the I6 and went to V6's and V8's. The I-6 still lived on in the form of the Mercedes V-12 though, another inherently balanced engine.

But then again, my local tele-com is auctioning off its old fleet of bucket trucks, which are like 15 year old Ford F-450's with gas V10 engines and some of them have more than 400k miles on them. So maybe the type of engine doesn't matter.

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