"Certified" Experience, a Bit of a Joke

[obrianmcc]

At a minimum I would send this feedback to the dealers Service Mgr and General Mgr ...

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[Hootbro]

Whenever I see CPO being brought up, reminds me of the quote from Tommy Boy about guarantees.

I have bought a handful of CPO's and driven a few more for test drives over the years and always felt I was doing the CPO checklist for them for the first time.

I think it is rare to actually find any dealer regardless of make that actually does a true CPO inspection. If it shines and the tires are not bald, it goes on the lot.

I watched a Toyota dealer pull about 6 Corolla's off a transport they bought at auction from a rental fleet and put them on the front line of the used lot side and made them CPO vehicles without a single hood being raised.

 

[Maine Cajun]

Whenever I see CPO being brought up, reminds me of the quote from Tommy Boy about guarantees.

I have bought a handful of CPO's and driven a few more for test drives over the years and always felt I was doing the CPO checklist for them for the first time.

I think it is rare to actually find any dealer regardless of make that actually does a true CPO inspection. If it shines and the tires are not bald, it goes on the lot.

I watched a Toyota dealer pull about 6 Corolla's off a transport they bought at auction from a rental fleet and put them on the front line of the used lot side and made them CPO vehicles without a single hood being raised.

I appreciate your point. However, if a dealer wants to call something CPO and not have that clearly defined anywhere, then it's just an ambiguous label open to whatever the buyer wants to believe it is. Like your Tommy Boy example. But when a dealer writes explicitly that they did something that they didn't, like check differential fluid levels, then that speaks to their integrity. When I mentioned before I left the dealership that I intended to change the oil and check over the maintenance they assured me that it wasn't necessary as it had just been done. They doubled down on something quantifiable.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Engine Coolant
Power Steering
Front and Rear Differentials

I hate to say it, but if all three of these were critical low, something is wrong. Modern engines have really good sealed units that should not leak or dissipate fluids, especially a low mileage vehicle like you bought.

Did you see signs of leakage?
How low was low?
Did you use Mopar fluids instead of Autozone?

More information would be nice to read about. Inquiring minds want to know.

KevinC

I'm still looking for those to be quantified - other than "not just a little".
How much low? How far below the minimum cold level marks and low were the differentials, really? How far down?
Unless there were leaks, then they would be as full as the factory filled them. A differential should go tens of thousands of miles assuming no leaks and not be low enough to need fluid added. So how low where they, in fractions of an inch, below the fill hole?

Without leaks there's no reason for anything to be low with the possible exception of coolant IF it's enough miles and it's been hot-cold cycled a lot. You should be able to go 20K or 2 years and not see it drop enough to actually need to add coolant.

 

[Maine Cajun]

I'm still looking for those to be quantified - other than "not just a little".
How much low? How far below the minimum cold level marks and low were the differentials, really? How far down?
Unless there were leaks, then they would be as full as the factory filled them. A differential should go tens of thousands of miles assuming no leaks and not be low enough to need fluid added. So how low where they, in fractions of an inch, below the fill hole?

Without leaks there's no reason for anything to be low with the possible exception of coolant IF it's enough miles and it's been hot-cold cycled a lot. You should be able to go 20K or 2 years and not see it drop enough to actually need to add coolant.

Fair questions. The vehicle had just over 24,000 miles when I got it and it had been used to my knowledge exclusively in Maine and New Hampshire. In my defense I would've taken more precise measurements and pictures if I would have known there was an interest in them at the time.

Differentials - I don't have an exact linear measurement on depth below the fill hole but I used about 5/8 of a liter between the two differentials. The rear was lower than the front and so much so that I grabbed a flashlight to see if I could get an idea of where the level was. Although it is difficult to estimate from the angle I was looking at, I would say the rear diff level was deeper than I could've reached with a bent pinky, perhaps 3/8".

Coolant - The coolant was well below the minimum fill mark, perhaps 1-1.5". I initially took note of the level when I was doing the oil change so it would have been within 20 minutes of operating temperature.

Power steering - As with the coolant it was also about 1-1.5" below the fill mark. There was also evidence that the power steering fluid had been topped off in the past (dust stuck to fluid that had gone down the side of the reservoir fill stem).

I have not found any leaks or evidence of leaks thus far and have been under the truck a few times in the last three weeks.

The bottom line is that regardless of levels and whether or not they are adequate for regular use, in particular coolant and power steering, no reasonably competent mechanic could look at these levels and let this vehicle leave their bay without topping them off. For a Jeep service department to do so is poor performance in my opinion. If you state in writing that you checked these fluids, there should be no doubt that you did so. Understanding that there is an acceptable range with something like the differentials, why not just top it off while you already have it open and you're putting your name to it? What kind workmanship is it to say, "Good enough"? If they're not willing to pay attention to this simple detail, what other details would they think are just good enough during service?

 

[ErylFlynn]

I been watching some caredge videos and they were commenting recently on how the Certified programs have become unreliable. They looked at one that was certified, but had been in 2 accidents and many other issues. I would ignore the term certified and treat them all the same and the same skepticism.

 

[AstroZombie]

I speak with people daily who are certified technicians for the product I work with. Funny thing is we do not have or offer any type of certification for our "end user" product. I'm a certified electrician are teh worst words to hear on a call LMFAO

 

[River2016]

I just picked up my first Jeep a few weeks ago from a Jeep dealer. I went to a Jeep dealer because at the time I believed in the "certified" label. To be honest, it was a bit of a joke. Numerous items were checked off as being inspected on the certified checklist but apparently weren't. Engine coolant, low. Power steering fluid, low. Front and rear differentials, low. I'm not talking a little. The engine oil did look clear and bright implying that it had been changed recently. I found all of this because my first task when taking ownership of a vehicle is to baseline the maintenance by double checking the shop's work and resetting periodicities. It really undermines my faith in the dealership if they couldn't get these simple details complete before selling. To be honest, the engine coolant and power steering fluid shouldn't have left the lot like this but that's my mistake for trusting the dealership.

The truck is pretty low mileage and otherwise in great condition. I've driven it a couple hundred miles since with no leaks or low fluids. However, my advice to anyone purchasing a used Jeep from anywhere, don't trust that the maintenance is current.

Perhaps I'm old fashioned but when you say you did something, you're staking your reputation to that. My local Jeep dealership will never regain my trust or patronage. I already have trust issues with the Chrysler brand but I'm willing to keep an open mind because I like Jeeps and always wanted one.

Speaking of old fashion, I’ve run marvel through my last several used cars then done an oil change after 1000 miles. Gross. But it’s been good thus far…. The caveat is all my used cars have been Lexus (Jeep was bought new) so I was shooting for Toyota reliability from the jump. Honestly out of all our cars, if I had to trust one it would be the 92 SC with the 4.0 v8. That thing is amazing. FWIW.

 

[Maine Cajun]

I was shooting for Toyota reliability from the jump.

Admittedly this is my first Chrysler product. I've owned five Toyotas over the last 23 years and no other brand. My daily driver for the last 17 years was a 2-door Tacoma. Some components outlasted their estimated service life by 100,000/10 years. The clutch and manual transmission were untouched and showed no signs being near the end of their life even after 220,000 miles. Beyond changing a few sensors, pulleys, brakes, etc. the truck was still running like a champ when the rust finally claimed the frame a few weeks ago. Although Toyota had a known issue with the frames, I feel like I missed opportunities to protect the frame from the inside and potentially take the truck even further.

Perhaps in an effort to cope with the loss of my beloved Taco, I wanted something new that I was excited to drive and look at and a test drive of the JT sold me. I'm not holding FCA to the same standards I held Toyota to and am open minded to the quirks of modern trucks dominated by electrical systems. I expect issues from time to time and likely more so than a Toyota. But that's an understanding I have.

I've been impressed with some of the details Jeep designers thought of. I'm also pretty happy to see that the components are largely accessible. So for someone like myself that likes to work on my own vehicles, I'm not dreading this like I would a modern German car.

 

[KevinC]

Thank you for the detailed information.
I would engage the service department/manager/district head shed and advise them to what you found. Maybe nothing will come of it, but I would feel better letting someone in management know.

KevinC

 

[River2016]

Admittedly this is my first Chrysler product. I've owned five Toyotas over the last 23 years and no other brand. My daily driver for the last 17 years was a 2-door Tacoma. Some components outlasted their estimated service life by 100,000/10 years. The clutch and manual transmission were untouched and showed no signs being near the end of their life even after 220,000 miles. Beyond changing a few sensors, pulleys, brakes, etc. the truck was still running like a champ when the rust finally claimed the frame a few weeks ago. Although Toyota had a known issue with the frames, I feel like I missed opportunities to protect the frame from the inside and potentially take the truck even further.

Perhaps in an effort to cope with the loss of my beloved Taco, I wanted something new that I was excited to drive and look at and a test drive of the JT sold me. I'm not holding FCA to the same standards I held Toyota to and am open minded to the quirks of modern trucks dominated by electrical systems. I expect issues from time to time and likely more so than a Toyota. But that's an understanding I have.

I've been impressed with some of the details Jeep designers thought of. I'm also pretty happy to see that the components are largely accessible. So for someone like myself that likes to work on my own vehicles, I'm not dreading this like I would a modern German car.

I also traded in a Tacoma for my gladiator. I have been very pleased. To me it’s a better truck as far as drivability and comfort.

 

[Maine Cajun]

Thank you for the detailed information.
I would engage the service department/manager/district head shed and advise them to what you found. Maybe nothing will come of it, but I would feel better letting someone in management know.

KevinC

Kevin, I sent an email to the manager about two weeks ago and never heard back.

 

[agoldxj]

I know this is an old thread but some posts kinda rubbed the wrong way. I wouldn’t say all dealers are bad I work for a gm dealer. I love when they decide to do a CPO, more commission for me the more parts we sell. Everything has to be Oem which is more $$. We only use 2 techs to do CPOs and they are good ones. That being said I still wouldn’t own a gm product haha.

 

[YGBSM]

I know this is an old thread but some post kinda rubbed the wrong way. I wouldn’t say all dealers are bad I work for a gm dealer. I love when they decide to do a CPO, more commission for me the more parts we sell. Everything has to be Oem which is more $$. We only use 2 techs to do CPOs and they are good ones. That being said I still wouldn’t own a gm product haha.

Exactly, The Techs, service writers, and the parts and maintenance folks at the dealership I use are great. They do, however, have their hands tied behind their backs sometimes. Warranty repair takes a little longer. I think they rotate warranty work among the techs and limit it so that they are shop rate/time paid more than warranty rate/time paid. That's a guess though. I'm okay with that because I want them to have a good check and be happy. Y'all do great work! Thanks!

 

[agoldxj]

Yes we have to follow what the warranty lays out. It’s very frustrating knowing what needs to be done to get the customers their vehicles back but we have to play the game. I just got a warranty valve body in last week that we ordered in June, customer had already traded the truck in months ago.

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