Is it my imagination or are 2024's MSRP's reduced?

[Aj58]

With those prices, they've totally knocked me out of the market in the future. I cringed at the 50-some K I paid for this one, no way I'm dropping an extra 15K on one next time.
It's like they are aiming totally at those who MUST HAVE! one - and have priced out the group who made the JT sell well in the first couple of years.
They won't be discounting the 24s like they are the 23s - pretty much bet on that.
And that means, this is likely the last JT I ever buy.

Those were really for the fully maxed ones at those prices. You can also get a comfortably packaged 24 for around 56 with a below invoice dealer.

Where they are really screwing people is by not offering certain options unless it’s in a package. I believe you said at one point that a full time transfer case is a necessity for you. This is only offered in the x package for rubis and Mojave’s. Don’t know about the other trims.

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[ShadowsPapa]

I believe you said at one point that a full time transfer case is a necessity for you. This is only offered in the x package for rubis and Mojave’s.

Yes, it is.
They are pricing a lot of middle-of-the-road buyers out of the JT, IMO. Concentrating on high end to get the options.
It was the opposite for the Grand Cherokee - a Limited had pretty much everything we ever needed or wanted as long as you added the tow package. That was the only package we ever added.
Willys - you get a locker, not an option, but as standard. Don't want a locker - want LSD. Lockers are worthless, useless for us.
I have a feeling there's going to be more "correcting" in their lineup and packaging as they find the lose those in the middle.

 

[Redfour5]

Here’s a pretty decent apples to apples.

23 Mojave $72,580

https://www.jeep.com/hostd/windowsticker/getWindowStickerPdf.do?vin=1C6JJTEG1PL589889


A 24 mojave X comes in around $70,130 which includes everything on the 23 sticker above plus what’s listed below.

Side air bags
Aux switches
Trail cam
Headliner
Wireless speaker
Full time transfer case
Steel bumpers


https://www.chrysler.com/hostd/windowsticker/getWindowStickerPdf.do?vin=1C6JJTEG4RL104583


Like others said, they got creative with the packages and cut a lot of the costs there. Not getting into if it’s worth it because that’s subjective.

Yes 23’s have higher discounts now but just comparing MSRPs to try and keep it apples to apples.

And better sound proofing apparently...

 

[Redfour5]

Yes, it is.
They are pricing a lot of middle-of-the-road buyers out of the JT, IMO. Concentrating on high end to get the options.
It was the opposite for the Grand Cherokee - a Limited had pretty much everything we ever needed or wanted as long as you added the tow package. That was the only package we ever added.
Willys - you get a locker, not an option, but as standard. Don't want a locker - want LSD. Lockers are worthless, useless for us.
I have a feeling there's going to be more "correcting" in their lineup and packaging as they find the lose those in the middle.

I wish my wife's JLU had LSD and not a locker. For our use, a locker is silly and would never get used, while LSD is a big thing for my use especially. Having the axles locked solidly together doesn't work when trying to make really tight turns on less than ideal surfaces.
I'd hope that you would have the option of LSD or locker.
A whole lot of folks here actually do great without lockers. For snow removal, the LSD and 4HA is perfect, a locker is worthless.
Those locker switches on my wife's JLU will look like brand new in 20 years from never being touched.
I buy LSD in everything i get if at all possible - I hope it remains an option.
They seem to be moving more toward off-road fans and away from "I need a small truck that can go off road" people.

That's where the "auto 4WD" comes into play. They call it "selec-trac" or Rock-trac" if you have lockers. I know you know this, but others may not.

It's a full time 4WD that is essentially equivalent to a rear limited slip except its front to back to oversimplify. Since I didn't want lockers, I found out you can get both and you get front back, side to side grip. It is the cat's meow to over-analyze... Of course together they are 895 and 795 on a 23, but if my driving these last few days are any indicator, well worth it. It's similar to a Subaru "symetrical" AWD in how it all works, but with a Jeep, you get a lot more in the 4WD department in addition. A suby can't do the Rubicon trail... A jeep can and Wranglers and Gladiators have a badge to prove it.

Subaru symetrical all wheel drive description:
"How They Differ from the Other FWD, FWD-Based AWD Systems and RWD Systems Offered by Competitors

Subaru Symmetrical All-wheel Drive is unique in that it is always active. Most other systems only provide power to the rear or front wheels when they are needed, like if the front wheels lose traction on an icy spot. Even though they offer a mild front or rear wheel bias, Subaru vehicles have power to all wheels, all the time. Most other systems have a consistent bias either way, and the differential is unable to send enough power to the needed wheels in the event of a loss of traction."

" Unlike other all-wheel drive systems, Subaru integrates its transfer case into the transmission, as opposed to a front wheel bias. The use of limited slip differentials (LSD) is key, as they combine the benefits of open and locked differentials. The torque split of a LSD is based on available grip, and makes it a great choice for daily driving. "

So Selec Trac AND limited slip is very similar to the Suby system and the description above works. I had a 2007 Forester Premium and ordered a rear limited slip to essentially achieve the same thing. On city roads, slick highways, it was perfect, but as noted it did not have part time 4WD, full time 4WD low and high ranges with a hill descent component. When I got my regular 4WD in my 2013 Ram 1500, I really missed the Suby on roads. This is what most Gladiators have.

Then I got limited slip on my 2015 Ram 1500 and it was a distinct improvement. Then on my 2021 Ram 1500 I had the "auto 4WD" and the limited slip rear differential and it was like my old Suby... NOW, that's all I'm going to have if I can get it. I have it all on my Gladiator to over analyze the situation.

Most customers don't know this and most dealers either don't know or don't order it for some reason likely cost. If you live in Southern California, you don't need either to be honest. In Montana, the more the merrier from a driver standpoint. So, the model you choose is key. Got lockers, you can still get Rock Trac full time 4WD and get most of the advantages of a better 4WD. If you don't, get Selec Trac and a rear limited slip. I honestly would avoid the basic 4WD system unless, like I said, you live somewhere like SoCal or southern Florida, maybe places in Texas... Everywhere else, I'd have at least one of the two options I've discussed.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

It's a full time 4WD that is essentially equivalent to a rear limited slip except its front to back to oversimplify.

The Selec-Trac is clutch based controlled by hydraulics. It's fully engaged when you take off from a stop, and disengages the clutches as you gain speed (I've got the JSCAN shots of this) and then if you romp the throttle and go into a high-torque situation, it applies the clutches again - REGARDLESS OF SLIPPAGE. So it's not dependent on varying torque between front and rear the way LSD is dependent on the varying torque between left and right axle.
So it's quite different from LSD differentials that rely on torque differences. It's applied electronically - controlling hydraulic clutch packs.

The NP 119 and 129, for example, where there's a viscous coupling that acts more like a solid as spin is applied - the faster one half spins compared to the other half, the less fluid it acts.
Those two are very much like LSD and rely fully on torque differences regardless of throttle position, engine load, ABS wheel spin detection and so on.

This is what Selec-Trac can do for you - the only time I slipped a wheel and the traction control light came on was when I hit the end of the driveway (it's totally up hill) and the snow was coming up over the hood and I had such a pile and so much weight in front of me, it just couldn't go any farther. I backed up a bit, took 3/4 of the load and rammed it on across the road. When standing on the road, I'm looking up at the top of the taller garage addition and over the roof of the house.

the drift in front of the garage was over my knees.

 

[Wheelin98TJ]

That's where the "auto 4WD" comes into play. They call it "selec-trac" or Rock-trac" if you have lockers. I know you know this, but others may not.

It's a full time 4WD that is essentially equivalent to a rear limited slip except its front to back to oversimplify. Since I didn't want lockers, I found out you can get both and you get front back, side to side grip. It is the cat's meow to over-analyze... Of course together they are 895 and 795 on a 23, but if my driving these last few days are any indicator, well worth it. It's similar to a Subaru "symetrical" AWD in how it all works, but with a Jeep, you get a lot more in the 4WD department in addition. A suby can't do the Rubicon trail... A jeep can and Wranglers and Gladiators have a badge to prove it.

Subaru symetrical all wheel drive description:
"How They Differ from the Other FWD, FWD-Based AWD Systems and RWD Systems Offered by Competitors

Subaru Symmetrical All-wheel Drive is unique in that it is always active. Most other systems only provide power to the rear or front wheels when they are needed, like if the front wheels lose traction on an icy spot. Even though they offer a mild front or rear wheel bias, Subaru vehicles have power to all wheels, all the time. Most other systems have a consistent bias either way, and the differential is unable to send enough power to the needed wheels in the event of a loss of traction."

" Unlike other all-wheel drive systems, Subaru integrates its transfer case into the transmission, as opposed to a front wheel bias. The use of limited slip differentials (LSD) is key, as they combine the benefits of open and locked differentials. The torque split of a LSD is based on available grip, and makes it a great choice for daily driving. "

So Selec Trac AND limited slip is very similar to the Suby system and the description above works. I had a 2007 Forester Premium and ordered a rear limited slip to essentially achieve the same thing. On city roads, slick highways, it was perfect, but as noted it did not have part time 4WD, full time 4WD low and high ranges with a hill descent component. When I got my regular 4WD in my 2013 Ram 1500, I really missed the Suby on roads. This is what most Gladiators have.

Then I got limited slip on my 2015 Ram 1500 and it was a distinct improvement. Then on my 2021 Ram 1500 I had the "auto 4WD" and the limited slip rear differential and it was like my old Suby... NOW, that's all I'm going to have if I can get it. I have it all on my Gladiator to over analyze the situation.

Most customers don't know this and most dealers either don't know or don't order it for some reason likely cost. If you live in Southern California, you don't need either to be honest. In Montana, the more the merrier from a driver standpoint. So, the model you choose is key. Got lockers, you can still get Rock Trac full time 4WD and get most of the advantages of a better 4WD. If you don't, get Selec Trac and a rear limited slip. I honestly would avoid the basic 4WD system unless, like I said, you live somewhere like SoCal or southern Florida, maybe places in Texas... Everywhere else, I'd have at least one of the two options I've discussed.

I like an open diff for snowy/icy road driving because it’s very predictable. It’s like a peg leg that helps keep you straight. And what it lacks for moving you forward can be made up for with 4wd.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

LSD is really only a problem on ice very slow speeds or stand-still. That's where open wins.
But moving faster than a walk they are the same for lateral stability.
Have a PM article on that where they tested two identical vehicles - literally identical in every way except the differentials.

When I had my AMX, they didn't keep streets and highways as nice as they do now and many times I had to commute to work through unplowed or partially plowed backroads along the river.

 

[Jclow801]

I thought I heard something recently where stellantis is attempting to bring the Jeep brand into the luxury or high line vehicle segment. Aren’t these prices an expression of that? I mean… 2 door 6 speed wrangler sport starts at almost $32k.

$73k for a Gladiator? Don’t get me wrong I love my Gladiator, but you’re knocking on the door of F-150 Raptor prices and I’d say Raptors are much more for the money than a Mojave…

What happened to General Purpose? Or Just Enough Essential Parts? I feel like Stellantis is getting away from the heritage of Jeep. Which we probably all saw coming when Fiat bought them.. But we are playing some strange game of trying to catch up with Land Rover.

A bit off topic but these numbers are blowing my mind ?

 

[Wheelin98TJ]

I thought I heard something recently where stellantis is attempting to bring the Jeep brand into the luxury or high line vehicle segment. Aren’t these prices an expression of that? I mean… 2 door 6 speed wrangler sport starts at almost $32k.

$73k for a Gladiator? Don’t get me wrong I love my Gladiator, but you’re knocking on the door of F-150 Raptor prices and I’d say Raptors are much more for the money than a Mojave…

I bought my Gladiator in April 2021, 6 months after I bought an F150, and they were within $500 of each other. The F150 has cooled seats, lane assist, and a V8. I prefer the F150 for a daily, but I almost always take the Gladiator on the weekends.

 

[Jclow801]

I bought my Gladiator in April 2021, 6 months after I bought an F150, and they were within $500 of each other. The F150 has cooled seats, lane assist, and a V8. I prefer the F150 for a daily, but I almost always take the Gladiator on the weekends.

May I ask what the incentive was to having a Gladiator and an F150? Rather than a Wrangler and an F150?

 

[Redfour5]

The Selec-Trac is clutch based controlled by hydraulics. It's fully engaged when you take off from a stop, and disengages the clutches as you gain speed (I've got the JSCAN shots of this) and then if you romp the throttle and go into a high-torque situation, it applies the clutches again - REGARDLESS OF SLIPPAGE. So it's not dependent on varying torque between front and rear the way LSD is dependent on the varying torque between left and right axle.
So it's quite different from LSD differentials that rely on torque differences. It's applied electronically - controlling hydraulic clutch packs.

The NP 119 and 129, for example, where there's a viscous coupling that acts more like a solid as spin is applied - the faster one half spins compared to the other half, the less fluid it acts.
Those two are very much like LSD and rely fully on torque differences regardless of throttle position, engine load, ABS wheel spin detection and so on.

This is what Selec-Trac can do for you - the only time I slipped a wheel and the traction control light came on was when I hit the end of the driveway (it's totally up hill) and the snow was coming up over the hood and I had such a pile and so much weight in front of me, it just couldn't go any farther. I backed up a bit, took 3/4 of the load and rammed it on across the road. When standing on the road, I'm looking up at the top of the taller garage addition and over the roof of the house.

the drift in front of the garage was over my knees.

Reminds me of our community mail boxes that get polished from every single person who lives in our old subdivision taking off up the hill but not quite as steep, but similar. I am NOt aware of the distinctions, but do appreciate the explanation. but all I know is it all helps substantially in me moving efficiently up the incline when others are just spinning or going sideways. Many times, I was the guy behind someone having a problem. A couple times, I backed up as I wasn't too certain if they had a clue what was going on. Most of them are various AWD's while a few are trucks. You can tell when either someone knows what they are doing...or not... and/or if they have a more "advanced" version of 4WD. Then, there are the rest of them.

This is how I judge the effectiveness of the different systems. As I noted, my first Ram 1500 a 2013, was toast in front of the mail boxes as it had the basic 4WD like MOST Gladiators. I had to put it in 4WD and usually slipped sideways until it bit. My 2015 had the Ram limited slip and would go and you could feel the limited slip kick in, I had to control my throttle. My 2021 had both the limited slip and the Ram "auto" full time 4WD something like the Selec Trac and it just bit and git. I've noticed Subarus don't seem to have much of a problem with the "mailboxes." But they wouldn't be able to handle that drift.

Does this explain why you require certain things in terms of 4WD?

 

[RHugg01]

I mean here is a Willy's 2024 for $52,235 MSRP. https://www.jeep.com/hostd/windowsticker/getWindowStickerPdf.do?vin=1C6HJTAG1RL100933

On the above 2024, note the "base price" of 37,895 on a Willy's whereas, the 2023 Willy's base on this one is 38,990. https://www.jeep.com/hostd/windowsticker/getWindowStickerPdf.do?vin=1C6HJTAG0PL556158 There is your first supportive piece of evidence...

Look at what you get on the 2024! They make it difficult to really compare with new and I'm betting, when you can order a 2024, you will NOT be able to "build" 23 anymore. Examples are new "packages" mixing different things together like the Cargo Group with Trail Rail System for 2095 or the "Convenience Group" for 2095... https://www.jeep.com/hostd/windowsticker/getWindowStickerPdf.do?vin=1C6HJTAG4RL104636 (loaded, but still under 60K Willy's. And the safety package is, I believe, the same price as 23, but you also get the automatic high beam headlight thing which is new I believe.

And then underpinning it all is the "real" rear locker as part of the base Willy's package along with a premium light package (LED), in conjunction with a 3.73 rear axle and NOT the wide Dana 44's which is the ONLY way it comes in earlier years. And then the eye candy of the big 12.3 screen on all of them and a few other goodies not available in previous years. The rear locker on the short Dana's and 3.73 ought to be interesting to hear what people have to say about that. I would have liked to have that as an option.

And another thing I am not seeing mentioned much is improved sound proofing. Supposedly they have done many of the things that are presently after market improvements, floor and doors, since it appears to really bug a lot of people... If they were going to do that, they should have just made headliners standard though.

So, using that base Willy's above (first link), it looks like you are getting more of the "core" true Jeep stuff...cheaper AND, I'm pretty sure the base items on like a Willy's are directly targeted against the competition particularly the rear "real" locker and the big screen. These distinguishe the JEEP and defines it differently from the competition that has been eating the Gladiator's lunch over the last year or more being less expensive. You want a mid size pick up with meh accessories that goes over speed bumps pretty well...or how about a Willy's with a real rear locker for under 50K (soft top) and with incentives even below 45K. THAT competes with a Colorado all day long... which doesn't have a "sun roof" built in or doors you can take off...

This is interesting if my observations are in the ball park. Of course I'm the guy who said IF Jeep had made the Renegade flat towable they would have sold at least a million more as you will find MOST Rvers looking for Toads have considered them before being told no... I sometimes wonder at Jeep's marketing people.

This is interesting.

They might be less expensive but my local dealer does not yet have the '24 gladiator and the 24 Wranglers are all, and I mean all they have, are 4xe's. If they only bring in Gladiators that are the 4xe they will lose a customer. I don't want something I will end up having to replace very expensive batteries down the line. Also, I don't know if Jeep has this issue but quite a few electric vehicles are catching fire.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

If they only bring in Gladiators that are the 4xe they will lose a customer. I don't want something I will end up having to replace very expensive batteries down the line. Also, I don't know if Jeep has this issue but quite a few electric vehicles are catching fire.

Oh, boy, where to start.............
There's 80,000 miles warranty on the 4xe systems, including batteries.
So you are good for at least that long. Anything to do with the batteries, battery conditioning (including heaters, valves and lines) and so on is in that 80K warranty.

And as far as fires - MORE gas and diesel vehicles catch fire than EVs. And I'm talking percentages, not plain numbers as I know there's more diesel and gas vehicles on the road.
I'm talking per thousand vehicles, the gasser is much more likely to burn.
The issue is the media and social mediocre sensationalizing the reports of such.
You don't hear of a gas vehicle catching fire in the news, but let even a hybrid burn and suddenly it's a headline. The numbers are out there, even a fire protection organization looked into it to see how much truth there was to it - and found the only concern is how hard they can be to put out.
How many Jeep fires have been reported, talked about, and pics posted here? Quite a few. All of them gas or diesel.

"but they don't work in cold temps". Yeah, ours does. It was -15 (FIFTEEN BELOW ZERO (F)) here this am when we took off for some shopping.
I went out, with the Jeep plugged in, pressed the start button two times with foot off the brake to condition the batteries using the charger and house current.
We got in, it was warm inside within minutes and although pure electric wasn't available (may have been in FORM, my wife was driving and she totally ignores dash messages) but we were still obviously getting hybrid mpg as I was seeing 25-30 - in a Wrangler Rubicon.
they aren't ideal for cold climates, but ours has been fine.
I would seriously look at a hybrid Gladiator. But not at the prices they are shooting at us already for pure gas models! Yikes, 70K and that's just for a gasser! You'd be looking at 90K for a 4xe Gladiator! NO WAY
IF they offered a mild hybrid - in the Etorque 3.6 in a Gladiator, I'd have probably gotten that.

 

[RHugg01]

Oh, boy, where to start.............
There's 80,000 miles warranty on the 4xe systems, including batteries.
So you are good for at least that long. Anything to do with the batteries, battery conditioning (including heaters, valves and lines) and so on is in that 80K warranty.

And as far as fires - MORE gas and diesel vehicles catch fire than EVs. And I'm talking percentages, not plain numbers as I know there's more diesel and gas vehicles on the road.
I'm talking per thousand vehicles, the gasser is much more likely to burn.
The issue is the media and social mediocre sensationalizing the reports of such.
You don't hear of a gas vehicle catching fire in the news, but let even a hybrid burn and suddenly it's a headline. The numbers are out there, even a fire protection organization looked into it to see how much truth there was to it - and found the only concern is how hard they can be to put out.
How many Jeep fires have been reported, talked about, and pics posted here? Quite a few. All of them gas or diesel.

"but they don't work in cold temps". Yeah, ours does. It was -15 (FIFTEEN BELOW ZERO (F)) here this am when we took off for some shopping.
I went out, with the Jeep plugged in, pressed the start button two times with foot off the brake to condition the batteries using the charger and house current.
We got in, it was warm inside within minutes and although pure electric wasn't available (may have been in FORM, my wife was driving and she totally ignores dash messages) but we were still obviously getting hybrid mpg as I was seeing 25-30 - in a Wrangler Rubicon.
they aren't ideal for cold climates, but ours has been fine.
I would seriously look at a hybrid Gladiator. But not at the prices they are shooting at us already for pure gas models! Yikes, 70K and that's just for a gasser! You'd be looking at 90K for a 4xe Gladiator! NO WAY
IF they offered a mild hybrid - in the Etorque 3.6 in a Gladiator, I'd have probably gotten that.

You are right that the media does sensationalize everything. I had not looked into the warranty on them. At those prices they are out of my league. I bought my 2021 Gladiator Willys gasser earlier this year as a "certified pre owned" with only 13,000 miles. The dealer gave me a good deal and quite a bit more than I had expected on a 2016 Renegade. I could not afford the new ones. I will probably be keeping mine for quite a while which is fine as I love it.

 

[ecidiego]

And that means, this is likely the last JT I ever buy.

...but not the last Jeep.....

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