Study: EVs cost more to fuel than ICE engines

[ShadowsPapa]

Im just saying 25k+37K so about 62k plus high insurance not to mention if anything breaks on them. A 22k 35mpg car with cheaper insurance might be cheaper in the long run ….40k in gas can go a loonnnggg way

Very little difference in insurance here. The main reason ours went up is not due to it being a 4xe, but due to it being new and expensive to repair. The only thing not going up is insurance on my classics.
Of course this varies with STATE as well.
Costs of repairs have skyrocketed across all types of cars and trucks and in some places, because certain insurance coverage is mandated, it's passed along in even higher amounts to the consumer. FL has mandates unlike we do here, for example. My son told me of how just moving from Iowa to Florida his insurance rates skyrocketed, but buying an EV didn't really changed things much after he traded his Compass for their EV after they moved there. It was moving that cost them, not so much the newer vehicle. For their use, he's saving money.

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[Rusty PW]

Being in power generation. I've seen natural gas that we use be priced anywhere from $19.00 per dekatherm in the early 2000's to $0.98 in 2016 when I retired. MegaWatt prices from $2,300 in the 2000's to $1.68 in 2016. I had the responsibility of putting together the spark spread sheet everyday for the gas traders to use to buy anywhere from $30 to $40 million dollars a day in natural gas to use at our power plant.

 

[Jefe1018]

If I could get a 4xe JT with a similar tow and torque ratings without the balloon price, I would consider it at least. My commute is less than 4 miles round trip. That could save some me a whopping $20 a week, or $1040 a year… that math math’s right?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Being in power generation. I've seen natural gas that we use be priced anywhere from $19.00 per dekatherm in the early 2000's to $0.98 in 2016 when I retired. MegaWatt prices from $2,300 in the 2000's to $1.68 in 2016. I had the responsibility of putting together the spark spread sheet everyday for the gas traders to use to buy anywhere from $30 to $40 million dollars a day in natural gas to use at our power plant.

8/3 - 9/1 2023 our cost per kWh was $0.1264577259475219

11/1 - 12/4 2023 when we dropped to winter rates, our cost per kWh was $0.0802952202436739

So about 13 CENTS in the summer months, and 8 CENTS in the winter months.

I used our actual total bill - with all things included vs the actual usage for that billing period. It's accurate and includes all taxes, etc.

 

[ecidiego]

Let me throw a "yeah........ but........." at you if I may -
Batteries.
Do you factor in the battery costs over time?
You have to have a place to store the energy, a wall of batteries, for example. They will go bad over time and you have to replace them, correct?
How many batteries and how long do they typically last?

That's MY fear - beside our cheap power making payback way out there in years, even a decade in our case, then you have MAINTENANCE - batteries and solar panels have a finite life span themselves.

I don't have batteries. We are on NEM 2...net metering. I export massive amounts during the day...especially when EV not charging. 1:1 credit based on time of use. There is enough excess to cover 100% of my ' no sun ' and nighttime use. Grandfathered till 2041.

Here's the other day.....no EV charging that day. All that export I get as credits.

 

[johnchabin]

I don't have batteries. We are on NEM 2...net metering. I export massive amounts during the day...especially when EV not charging. 1:1 credit based on time of use. There is enough excess to cover 100% of my ' no sun ' and nighttime use. Grandfathered till 2041.

Here's the other day.....no EV charging that day. All that export I get as credits.

We are net metering as well. I installed 28 panels over several weeks back around 2007. System cost me about $35,000, Colorado (Xcel) rebate was $4.50/watt at the time (-$28,000), so system cost was $7,000 - federal rebate.

About $5,300 out of pocket.

My wife drives a plug-in Hyundai Ionic. That’s effectively free (ish) to drive for the first 30 miles.

If you want to make your solar installation expensive, add a battery bank. I’ve priced it out… it’s a no-go for me.

 

[Rick_Jame55]

False. We are saving $6,000/year as all charging is done at home on a paid for solar array. Insurance is about the same as my Mojave. A Model Y RWD is 36k brand new. The $7500 is taken at point of sale as of now. I couldn't care less about image or 'green' anything.

The fact is the Model Y saves us a shitload of money given our driving habits. Numbers crunched.

All you did is make a bunch of assumptions based on your personal opinion and not actual experience.

Just a simple question. Have you factored in battery replacement? At some point it will be a factor in the ev universe. Yeah sure you will get your usage out of the battery. But upon trade in or sale. That battery percentage health is gonna turn into a boat anchor. And wait till the “fees” for those battery disposals start to take affect. I guarantee these government subsidies are going to evaporate. Just saying.

 

[Yellow1098]

So just for learning purposes….to make it close to as affordable to drive an EV compared to gas you need a 35-50k solar or Xcel Kilowatt solar array battery less grandfathered in no sun night time use gigawat system with a 7,500$ government rebate? I can’t even figure out how to use my cell phone haha

 

[WestwallNF104A]

Nevada Energy, a Berkshire Hathaway Company: https://www.brkenergy.com/our-businesses/nv-energy

Yes, I have to deal with them too.

Not fun.

 

[ecidiego]

Im just saying 25k+37K so about 62k plus high insurance not to mention if anything breaks on them. A 22k 35mpg car with cheaper insurance might be cheaper in the long run ….40k in gas can go a loonnnggg way

Solar isn't just offsetting fuel. At least 8k a year in home electricity in 2024 here in Socal. I needed the car anyway. A Corolla doesn't suit a family of 5.

Insurance also isn't 'high'. It's the same as my Jeep which is driven 1/3 as much. USAA doesn't have high EV rates.

 

[Geoarch]

Free at home here. California. Solar paid itself off in 3 years. The next 20ish years = free EV charging and home electricity. Gas is about 5/gallon currently...electricity soars to 65c/kwh in summer. Solar is life here.

100,000 miles in the Tesla will cost 0 to charge... the Jeep...yeah I don't want to calculate that and shit myself....lol

Even here in New Mexico at $3 per gallon with our solar we drive around town free in our PHEV and pay nothing to the utility. It’s a matter of context. It helps to make up for the 16 mpg on my JTR. Once the battery technology improves some and chargers are readily available it will be a new day and I’ll breathe easier. It will be quite a while before ICEs go away though.

 

[Geoarch]

40k = 28k after Fed writeoff. Keep that in mind.

Other than the Jeep, being immune to OiL wArS when it comes to personal transportation is awesome. Was killing us when gas was $7/gallon.

We paid 20 grand for 6.3 kW and got 36% back that year now it would be 40% and will be paid off in three more years since we pay nothing to the utility. Plus our PHEV cost 0 to drive around town. Offsets the 16 mpg on my JTR. ICE will be around for a bit, but I breathe easier now.

 

[Geoarch]

I don't have batteries. We are on NEM 2...net metering. I export massive amounts during the day...especially when EV not charging. 1:1 credit based on time of use. There is enough excess to cover 100% of my ' no sun ' and nighttime use. Grandfathered till 2041.

Here's the other day.....no EV charging that day. All that export I get as credits.

Same here. I have two gW banked that pays for AC in the summer here in NM.

 

[DanW]

Related.
https://valuetainment.com/mercedes-benz-joins-other-automakers-in-cancelling-ev-only-by-2030-plans/

Mercedes-Benz is reportedly backing off its promise to make exclusively electric vehicles (EVs) by 2030, according to a company statement put out on Thursday. This follows a string of reports over the last few months indicating that the auto industry is getting cold feet on the bold EV promises they made previously in cooperation with pressure from global environmentalist institutions.

Just some thoughts after reading this.....First, I said years ago when all these governments and automakers were mandating or promising total EV production by 2030 to 2035 that they were just scoring short term political points and that reality would be different. I didn't think, however, that reality would hit this quickly.

That said, leaving out oil changes harmed the fairness of the comparison.

People will give up their ICE vehicles almost as reluctantly as gun owners will give up guns. It is a matter of giving up freedom, and also capability. At least until chargers become as quick and accessible as a gas pump.

As for Jeep trips, I can take extra gas. How would that be done with an EV? Solar panels don't provide enough juice at this time to be practical off the beaten path. Just 6 gallons can get me a hundred miles.

I think for now, in my humble opinion, hybrids like the 4xe or Pacifica, or Prius, are a better bet. Best of both worlds.

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