Bent Frames - Big Thing or isolated?

[ShadowsPapa]

You are zeroing in on it - the failure in mine is at the curve where the bump stops are mounted, quite close to the shock mount. And from what the shop(s) have said, that is pretty much where all the failures they've seen are.

Those spare tires must be massively heavy under there, and that truck bed must be iron and not aluminum as it would take a fair amount to bend this frame - I had a Comanche with a lesser frame, hauled farm stuff, loaded the poor thing down with chemicals, bags of seed corn, hauled anhydrous tanks through disked fields and more - and that poor little Comanche with a fraction of this frame survived fine.........

I wonder if this is the HSS area, if so, bending isn't as likely as cracking.
This is twice the frame of a Comanche and I abused the heck out of that truck.

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[Vtur]

Where is the bend frame photo? I'm sure some of us wanna see pictures and not having to read through multiple pages lol

 

[bd100]

Meanwhile, JL Wrangler has had spring perch cracks:
2018 JL upper rear spring perch failure.....

This stuff can happen. In the case of our JTs if you get Sumo Springs or Timbren SES bump stops then it will be worth it to watch for cracking at the bump stops.

 

[NVjeff]

I'm watching this out of curiosity, I bought my truck because of the tow rating with Max Tow.
I can see, with the coil spring suspension, that more weight is concentrated in one area than on a truck with leaf spring suspension.

I did a quick search for bent frames on Ram 1500's and found nothing, they use the same style frame and suspension, and are rated for more weight. I don't know if the frames are built heavier or not.

I like the look of the weld in brace posted in the first video. I would be concerned with welding procedure, if the frame requires pre and post heat to properly weld to it. At this time I have no plans to install frame braces, if I should notice any bending on my frame I'll contact the dealer, if I get no satisfaction there braces may be installed or the truck may be replaced.

I know tow tests were performed to get the tow rating, I am curious as to what if any long term durability testing was done at max weight.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I'm watching this out of curiosity, I bought my truck because of the tow rating with Max Tow.
I can see, with the coil spring suspension, that more weight is concentrated in one area than on a truck with leaf spring suspension.

I did a quick search for bent frames on Ram 1500's and found nothing, they use the same style frame and suspension, and are rated for more weight. I don't know if the frames are built heavier or not.

I like the look of the weld in brace posted in the first video. I would be concerned with welding procedure, if the frame requires pre and post heat to properly weld to it. At this time I have no plans to install frame braces, if I should notice any bending on my frame I'll contact the dealer, if I get no satisfaction there braces may be installed or the truck may be replaced.

I know tow tests were performed to get the tow rating, I am curious as to what if any long term durability testing was done at max weight.

You have never seen the rear leaf spring shackle mount shove up through the trunk, or break?
Leaf springs, at least on cars and "light trucks" concentrate the force on two small areas. The springs on these are supported in a fairly wide area - but not if welded to the side of a frame and allowing that thing to have leverage.

That's an issue I see here - the spring upper support is only welded to any structure on the outboard side - leaving 3 sides of it floating.

I'm guessing here - but I'd bet at least someone has had their spring support shoved upward, maybe cracking at the weld to the frame.

 

[Gvsukids]

That's an issue I see here - the spring upper support is only welded to any structure on the outboard side - leaving 3 sides of it floating.

So much for a reinforced frame.

 

[NVjeff]

You have never seen the rear leaf spring shackle mount shove up through the trunk, or break?
Leaf springs, at least on cars and "light trucks" concentrate the force on two small areas. The springs on these are supported in a fairly wide area - but not if welded to the side of a frame and allowing that thing to have leverage.

That's an issue I see here - the spring upper support is only welded to any structure on the outboard side - leaving 3 sides of it floating.

I'm guessing here - but I'd bet at least someone has had their spring support shoved upward, maybe cracking at the weld to the frame.

I have not seen damage to leaf spring mounts like that. The worst I've seen was a pair of shackles rusted through.
The advantage I can see of leaf springs over coils is the lever arm of the frame is shorter, the frame length from the hitch to the spring location.
I assume that is taken into account and frames on coil sprung vehicles are built heavier.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I have not seen damage to leaf spring mounts like that. The worst I've seen was a pair of shackles rusted through.
The advantage I can see of leaf springs over coils is the lever arm of the frame is shorter, the frame length from the hitch to the spring location.
I assume that is taken into account and frames on coil sprung vehicles are built heavier.

Leaf spring is spread across two points - front and rear. The load is spread unlike coils where the top of the spring is basically a fulcrum point for a lever - which is the frame.
The front half of the main leaf on my SX4 has actually dropped a bit, causing a reverse arc and allowing the rear of the car to sag a bit while the rear of the spring still has the proper shape. it's caused issues because it not only make the car sit low, it changes the pinion angle.

 

[Free2roam]

I jump mine and tow a 5500lb camper. Its still good.

Proof jumping the Jeep while towing a 5500lb camper. Pics or it didn't happen!

 

[GeneralMaximus]

So much for a reinforced frame.

so, 25% reinforced?

 

[Jefe1018]

I was excited to get the HPFP recall done finally....

Thanks guys.

I think I'll just raw dog this one like the Z96.

 

[LostWoods]

Those spare tires must be massively heavy under there, and that truck bed must be iron and not aluminum as it would take a fair amount to bend this frame - I had a Comanche with a lesser frame, hauled farm stuff, loaded the poor thing down with chemicals, bags of seed corn, hauled anhydrous tanks through disked fields and more - and that poor little Comanche with a fraction of this frame survived fine.........

I wonder if this is the HSS area, if so, bending isn't as likely as cracking.
This is twice the frame of a Comanche and I abused the heck out of that truck.

It seems the failure here is associated with high tongue weights under stress. Things in the bed would be distributed to the mounts which would greatly distribute the weight across the frame.

Leaf spring is spread across two points - front and rear. The load is spread unlike coils where the top of the spring is basically a fulcrum point for a lever - which is the frame.
The front half of the main leaf on my SX4 has actually dropped a bit, causing a reverse arc and allowing the rear of the car to sag a bit while the rear of the spring still has the proper shape. it's caused issues because it not only make the car sit low, it changes the pinion angle.

And this is the kicker... towing puts a tremendous weight on the frame at the furthest point from the fulcrum. Maxing out the tongue weight greatly exceeds the stress of putting twice the weight in the bed.

 

[Blade1668]

Those spare tires must be massively heavy under there, and that truck bed must be iron and not aluminum as it would take a fair amount to bend this frame - I had a Comanche with a lesser frame, hauled farm stuff, loaded the poor thing down with chemicals, bags of seed corn, hauled anhydrous tanks through disked fields and more - and that poor little Comanche with a fraction of this frame survived fine.........

I wonder if this is the HSS area, if so, bending isn't as likely as cracking.
This is twice the frame of a Comanche and I abused the heck out of that truck.

Spot on, I've had my Comanche loaded down with filled sandbags and other stuff many times without a problem or bent sudo frame of it. I don't want to think about how much weight the filled sandbags was, it definitely was overloaded with them. I was more concerned about the stock Dana axle giving out. On more than one occasion it was loaded with 4 complete M2 50 cal machine guns, tripods spare barrels, 4 sets of complete BII for M113's. The crap we had to do at times in the Army for inspections, layouts, ect, ect. It did help that the Army had blue Comanche's as TMP vehicles. Especially after the new company Commander decided the company's beater truck wasn't needed or authorized and got rid of it.
Of the Gladiators with bent frames many if not most have been due to people trying to get their 15 minutes of fame doing something stupid for tic-tok, U-tube, or Facebook, ect, ect other than being in a crash.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

It seems the failure here is associated with high tongue weights under stress. Things in the bed would be distributed to the mounts which would greatly distribute the weight across the frame.



And this is the kicker... towing puts a tremendous weight on the frame at the furthest point from the fulcrum. Maxing out the tongue weight greatly exceeds the stress of putting twice the weight in the bed.

True - there's cross braces that spread the load in the bed out so it's not concentrated

And your latter part hits on something I've seen here over and over where people buy a JT without the tow package, go buy a receiver, and hey that receiver is a class x so I can handle a tongue weight of yyy pounds, the receiver says so..........
They aren't accounting for the frame and other restrictions. Doesn't matter what a class whatever receiver can handle - it's what it's bolted to can handle. And yet here, and on other forums, I see the insistence that the receiver is the limiting factor.
They ignore the book
There's a reason these are limited to the tow ratings and tongue weights they are (and in another area here, I see adding heavier springs and better trackbars, etc. will increase your towing ability - no, it won't)

Also must figure physics - hit a big bump with that 600 pounds and what sort of force does it hit that frame with? More than 600 pounds.

 

[Rusty PW]

Figure I would drop this here.

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