My absolute nightmare Jeep Gladiator Experience over the last 20 months

[ZeeJay]

A big reason is likely tooling. The 4.0 was quite long in tooth by the early 2000s.
It was also based on a very old design - the AMC 4 cyl engine. The head design had been changed more than once, changing port positions and shape, they went to a split pattern cam - giving more power and economy, changed the intake design about 96 if I recall, but if referring to the 4.0 in particular, it was old, and so was the tooling.

I've done the injector swap and found no difference in either power or economy. So far no one has showed any factual difference with dyno testing.
In theory, it sounds fine, but with enough turbulence of the incoming air, they shouldn't actually make a lot of difference.

This pic is right after I put on a newly restored fuel rail, new regulator, and the Ford injectors, but wasn't impressed.

I have an experimental aluminum head I may put on someday if I get the energy and time.
Already have a Comp cam and roller rockers so it should be ready for other upgrades.

I believe your correct on 96 intake change, if’n I member correctly, it was also what I have come to affectionately call “H.O. Lite”. Not sure if that crossed body codes but the ZJs had a 5hp dump for emissions and saving polar bears from 96 to 97.5 again if memory is correct. I’m not sure anybody would ever know 5hp was missing from a 4.0, I mean seriously who drove their boat anchor one random Tuesday and thought “wow feels low on power”. Economy perspective there just wasn’t much left to do with the 4.0 for sure. What I have found amusing over the years is between the three mainline generations of Renix; HO with SBEC and later OBDll; and PowerTech is power went up but always the same mileage. Seems the engine was destined by design to be a slobbering pig, which of course it is, but what a lovely pig.

Injectors swaps your right on there. The internet seems to deliver mythical campfire stories about obscene power and mileage gains off 4 holers, never seen it myself and call bovine feces on claims, highly doubt would ever see it in real time on a dyno. However, I do myself run 4 hole Bosch injectors for a little smoother idle and it does add some response down low off idle, and I have absolutely noted startups are lighting fast on both 5.2/5.9s and the 4.0, esp the 4.0. Even dead of winter it makes about 1/2 revolution its off. I don’t make 4holes a must do now plan, but address when either end of life rebuild or if I feel a midlife on injectors is needed.

Sponsored

 

[Northshoremb]

Soon as I seen you say you had 33" with 21" rims I laughed and didn't read any farther. If someone puts even 20" rims and a winch in same sentence you know they will be having problems cause they arnt offroad people who can wrench on their own stuff

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Soon as I seen you say you had 33" with 21" rims I laughed and didn't read any farther. If someone puts even 20" rims and a winch in same sentence you know they will be having problems cause they arnt offroad people who can wrench on their own stuff

I have an Overland - 18" rims, and for any truck that gets used like a truck, or a Jeep, I'd never think of tires smaller than 33/32 on 18" rims.
Anything else reminds me of parts of Chicago where trucks and SUVs never see anything other than city streets.
It makes no sense for anything used as a truck - or a Jeep. Mine does truck stuff and now and then, it's a Jeep.
It's not all about off-roading, either - it's about handling and more.
I was sitting in a tire shop a few years ago, and there was a magazine with an interesting article from a wheel company. There were about 2+ pages of all of the hows and whys and so on, and in the end, they basically said - don't do it, when referring to big rims with skinny sidewalls unless the vehicle was build for them. Hmm a wheel company saying don't put our big wheels on certain vehicles.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Injectors swaps your right on there. The internet seems to deliver mythical campfire stories about obscene power and mileage gains off 4 holers, never seen it myself and call bovine feces on claims, highly doubt would ever see it in real time on a dyno. However, I do myself run 4 hole Bosch injectors for a little smoother idle and it does add some response down low off idle, and I have absolutely noted startups are lighting fast on both 5.2/5.9s and the 4.0, esp the 4.0. Even dead of winter it makes about 1/2 revolution its off. I don’t make 4holes a must do now plan, but address when either end of life rebuild or if I feel a midlife on injectors is needed.

Part of the problem I see when I read posts on Jeep forums out there where people say they did injector swaps and all of a sudden the air smells like flowers, they have instant HP gains, gas comes flowing out of the gas tank back into the station tanks, is that they are replacing used, possible dirty or even faulty injectors with miles on them with either new or rebuilt injectors.
They may see the same results by simply putting in a set of new stock injectors..
I see it with ignition system swaps as well - suddenly there's HP gains, they start better and angels sing while they drive - they are swapping out used, possibly even defective or out of spec parts with new. They have proven nothing at all - not a single thing, unless they take a brand new engine with 0 miles and everything in spec, and THEN do the swap.
I see a lot of Eagle owners swearing that by replacing the stock ignition with HEI or some other eBay part, it suddenly gets much better mpg, starts a lot easier, idles nicer and more - yeah, your original parts are 80,000+ miles and 40 years old!
OR, the HEI is masking an engine with poor physical condition - low compression, valve train issues, fuel system issues, whatever. Fix the engine and the stock ignition system would work fine.

 

[IzzyO]

My JT has had numerous problems as well. I'm about 3k miles into the new engine they replaced at 20k miles and I can honestly say I never knew until they replaced the engine that a JT could run so smoothly. Of course they didn't secure everything under the hood once the engine was back in place, which was a PIA to go back for, but other than that, everything is finally good... after almost 3 years.

 

[ZeeJay]

Part of the problem I see when I read posts on Jeep forums out there where people say they did injector swaps and all of a sudden the air smells like flowers, they have instant HP gains, gas comes flowing out of the gas tank back into the station tanks, is that they are replacing used, possible dirty or even faulty injectors with miles on them with either new or rebuilt injectors.
They may see the same results by simply putting in a set of new stock injectors..
I see it with ignition system swaps as well - suddenly there's HP gains, they start better and angels sing while they drive - they are swapping out used, possibly even defective or out of spec parts with new. They have proven nothing at all - not a single thing, unless they take a brand new engine with 0 miles and everything in spec, and THEN do the swap.
I see a lot of Eagle owners swearing that by replacing the stock ignition with HEI or some other eBay part, it suddenly gets much better mpg, starts a lot easier, idles nicer and more - yeah, your original parts are 80,000+ miles and 40 years old!
OR, the HEI is masking an engine with poor physical condition - low compression, valve train issues, fuel system issues, whatever. Fix the engine and the stock ignition system would work fine.

Without a doubt, I have always treated gas injection like I have approached diesel injection and that’s mid lifes are worth it. Especially on a gas engine only for no reason the injectors are cheap. And any injector will wear out, get contaminated, etc. I stumbled on the 4 hole at the time had just rebuilt a friends 4.0 and he had drank the koolaid about 40 hp so he went with 4 hole and I had just completed a top end job on mine with new single types. Zeroed in right away on his startups and idle vs. mine. So on a whim and massive curiosity just transplanted the entire fuel rail and to my honest surprise results followed. I say surprised because I chocked it up too head difference, compression, timing or ignition. So since then why not. But again the fuel mileage and power is just internet drivel.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

My JT has had numerous problems as well. I'm about 3k miles into the new engine they replaced at 20k miles and I can honestly say I never knew until they replaced the engine that a JT could run so smoothly. Of course they didn't secure everything under the hood once the engine was back in place, which was a PIA to go back for, but other than that, everything is finally good... after almost 3 years.

These things can and SHOULD run smooth as silk and have plenty of power for towing 3,000-5,000 pound trailers. That's the norm. Anything else and they've got problems.

Dealerships matter -
we had the transmission replaced (under warranty) in my wife's JLU last fall - it wasn't even a year old, leaked.
It's a hell of a process in those - body-off to replace the transmission.
To this day I have found no leaks, no loose or missing bolts, in fact, it's as if they never had it apart. Even the power steps stuff was all put back as if they were never touched.
All brackets hoses, wires and so on, factory perfect.
On the other hand.........
Had a different dealership look into possible battery issues on my 2020 JT - they came back to me saying it was my winch draining the batteries (totally ignoring the big red disconnect sitting by the battery) and their fix was to move the ground cable from the battery over to the fender ground stud - the same stud the battery ground cable goes to. Morons.
Never went back, fixed it myself by charging the batteries independently and resetting the IBS. It worked like new after that.
So much for them handing it under warranty.
Dealerships matter.
Our sales guy wants our business really badly and if there's a hint of anything, he goes directly to the service department himself. He even watched over my wife's JLU being worked on.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Without a doubt, I have always treated gas injection like I have approached diesel injection and that’s mid lifes are worth it. Especially on a gas engine only for no reason the injectors are cheap. And any injector will wear out, get contaminated, etc. I stumbled on the 4 hole at the time had just rebuilt a friends 4.0 and he had drank the koolaid about 40 hp so he went with 4 hole and I had just completed a top end job on mine with new single types. Zeroed in right away on his startups and idle vs. mine. So on a whim and massive curiosity just transplanted the entire fuel rail and to my honest surprise results followed. I say surprised because I chocked it up too head difference, compression, timing or ignition. So since then why not. But again the fuel mileage and power is just internet drivel.

The injectors on the 4.0 I put in my SX4 had 100,000 miles on them when I did the engine rebuild. I put on another 33,000 or so miles, so they had over 130,000 miles on them when did a swap.
In my case, it took a bit more to start it and idle wasn't as good as with the original injectors, but then I bought "cleaned, rebuilt" injectors off the internet - so who knows.
I may try to order a NEW set and put those in, or send my originals out for refurbishing.
Yeah, they wear - think of how many times that thing has to open and close for every thousand miles, and the carbon, fuel contamination and so on.
Injectors absolutely matter.

(BTW - if you know of a source of new or certified refurbished for a 94 4.0 (the Ford 4-holers are fine) let me know)

It's not a hard/difficult process on the 4.0 in my car.
I'd like to start driving it more again.

 

[ZeeJay]

The injectors on the 4.0 I put in my SX4 had 100,000 miles on them when I did the engine rebuild. I put on another 33,000 or so miles, so they had over 130,000 miles on them when did a swap.
In my case, it took a bit more to start it and idle wasn't as good as with the original injectors, but then I bought "cleaned, rebuilt" injectors off the internet - so who knows.
I may try to order a NEW set and put those in, or send my originals out for refurbishing.
Yeah, they wear - think of how many times that thing has to open and close for every thousand miles, and the carbon, fuel contamination and so on.
Injectors absolutely matter.

(BTW - if you know of a source of new or certified refurbished for a 94 4.0 (the Ford 4-holers are fine) let me know)

It's not a hard/difficult process on the 4.0 in my car.
I'd like to start driving it more again.

Not new or certified but I have been using Performance Auto Injectors for few years now. Based in Florida. They send them out with adapters to fit injector harness to injectors and are packaged very well. Haven’t had any issue at all.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Not new or certified but I have been using Performance Auto Injectors for few years now. Based in Florida. They send them out with adapters to fit injector harness to injectors and are packaged very well. Haven’t had any issue at all.

Hmmm, can't seem to find them..............

 

[ZeeJay]

Hmmm, can't seem to find them..............

https://precisionautoinjectors.com/collections

 

[JTGuy]

I will not be leaving Jeep because I don't like them. I am 73 and in another 5 years vehicles will change and so will I.

 

[Stan H]

As some of you know, i purchased a new Jeep Gladiator Rubicon at the end of October 2022.
It came already fitted out with a 2" lift kit and 33" x 12.5 Yokahama mud terrain tyres on 21" rims
I had a bullbar, towbar and 13,000 pound Warn winch fitted as part of the deal

Up to the first service, the car was great, however, the very next morning after that first service problems arose.

Transmission seemed weird in second and i noticed a very slight engine ping as low throttle settings...the pinging gradually got worse over the next few months until at the second 24,000km service i had the dealership take a serious look at the engine. They contacted Jeep and initially put an upper cylinder cleaner through the engine...which worked for about 2 weeks.

I then took the car back and once again Jeep were contacted and from what service department told me, the internal combustion chambers within the engine were borescoped and it was noted that there was excessive carbon buildup in the combustion chambers of the engine. It was determined that the engine needed some parts in order to correct the problem, however, for the next 6 months...silence. Whenever i called to enquire what was going on with the arrival of parts it was always the same answer...they haven't arrived yet.

At about 35,000km the transmission failed in my driveway at home. After some jiggling around and switching off the engine and restarting, eventually i was able to get the car into drive and it would move forward. I contacted the dealership and drove it straight down to them. For the next 2 weeks it sat in their worship waiting to be looked at (the workshops are already running way behind and often a 2 week wait is minimum even on emergency works such as this).

Eventually i got a call from the dealership who informed me that the transmission was stuffed and a new one was being installed. Fortunately, there was one available in the local MElbourne warehouse and it was immediately installed (that was fantastic).

Ironically enough, 2 days into the transmission work, i get another phone call saying the engine parts had arrived and they were going to pull the heads off the engine and decarbon it, whilst also replacing whatever component it was that was believed to have caused the excessive carbon buildup in the combustion chambers of some of the cylinders. i now know it was the PCV valve that had caused the problem and was replaced. The idea it takes 6 months to get a PCV valve is ludicrous and I'm still completely miffed as to how that could have really been the hold up on the engine repairs...in the meantime the car did over 20,000km with a pinging engine during that 6 month period. I cant imagine that was good for the engine, however, no one seemed to care other than me about this fact.

Anyway, about a week later, i go and check on the car in the workshop...i look through the workshop roller door and see my two engine heads lying in the back of the ute without any kind of packing or protection ...it was if they had just been dumped into the tray without a care. That really pissed me off...alloy heads dumped into a steel tray without at least cardboard padding..WTF??? I held my anger and said nothing.

The next week i get the car back...much to my delight. However, the very next morning on a cold start i cant believe my ears...very loud timing chain rattle. This engine had never once done that before...how is it possible that straight after reassembly of the top end by mechanics I'm getting timing chain rattle? Something clearly wasn't right. I contacted the dealership and they said it was normal, even after i complained it had never done this before in the 35,000km i had driven the car.

At the end of that week, my son and i were walking on our driveway and he happened to notice oil on the concrete under my jeep. I climbed underneath the car only to find the engine sum plug so loose i could undo it with just two fingers and absolutely no effort. We got a socket and tightened it up. I then went over the entire engine bay checking it. Something didn't appear right but i couldn't put a finger on what it was...something was missing.

After about 15 minutes of going around the engine i suddenly came across a bracket along the top rhs of the engine where a round hose was supposed to be mounted...i went looking for that hose and down behind the engine dropped over the top of the bell housing i found it...the transmission breather. It was a simple thing to sort out and took 30 seconds...no big deal, however, in light of the oil drain plug being left so loose i was pretty pissed off. I rang the service manager and he gave me the lame ass excuse "oh we've had those sump plugs come loose...its not our fault. It was at this point i lost my cool and blasted the absolute shit out of him. For a start, my gladiator sump plug has a rubber washer...when tightened up properly they do not fu#$ing vibrate loose!

Ok so fast forward a couple of months, everything mostly seems ok with the exception that I'm sure there is diff whine coming from one of the axles (or the new transmission?) and at the 48,000 service i take it to a different jeep dealership who are great and very proactive with the car. I update them on the past history of the car, they take it for a drive, however, given the slow speed limits in the area around the dealership, they cannot get the car up to the needed 90km/hr to hear the diff whine. I say to them, we will book a time in the near future for a mechanic to come on a 20km round trip with me to some motorways so he can listen to it...in the meantime i needed to travel interstate for a few months for work...so we would look at this when i got back.

Well...the shit really hit the fan. Whilst away, i went 4wding a few times in deep water and at the end of one particular trip, the jeep broke down in the middle of a major arterial road in Sydney (centre lane peak hour traffic on a sunday evening). We were stranded unable to even leave the vehicle for more than 1 hour waiting for a tow truck.

The jeep was towed back to a Jeep workshop and sat there for 2 weeks with nothing being done to it. To cut a long story short, the Sydney dealership found that water had entered the transmission because the breather was not connected to the top of it by the previous mechanics who installed it (the same ones who left the engine sump plug loose and the top of the breather hose down across the back of the engine). After almost 2 months, i got my car back with another new transmission (yes its now had 2 more in addition to its original).

Im stoked and put a tank of fuel in the car in readiness for a return trip with the car from Sydney to Melbourne (about 900km.). Halfway to Melbourne, an error code pops up on the dash...i plug in my scanner tool and it tells me the low oil pressure sensor is stuck open.

I manage to get the car to Melbourne and strangely enough, the error code doesnt reappear again.

I was only in Melbourne for a week or so and i had to return to Sydney...just 4 hours into the return journey, i stop for fuel and smell burning oil. I look. underneath the car and to my amazement there is the equivalent of about 4 tablespoons full of oil on the ground under my car...and its dripping more whilst I'm looking at it. I immediately text the service manager in Sydney and warn him the car is coming back to his workshop.

The next day i drop off the car, they look at it and cannot immediately diagnose the problem other than to say, it definitely engine oil and not the transmission.

My next call from them is to explain that somehow, the oil cooler in the engine V is cracked and leaking oil.

Anyway, oil cooler repairs are completed after a week or so and i get the car back just in time to head back home to Melbourne.

You wont believe this...in almost exactly the same place as the last Melbourne trip (only this time on the southbound side of the same hwy), i can smell oil again. I stop the car and its leaking oil again. There is no possibility of driving it back to sydney, so i ring the Melbourne jeep dealership who did the 48,000km service on the car and plead to them for urgent help. They are brilliant, and my car is in their worship the very next morning. The service manager and mechanic take me to the car up on the hoist and explain that the engine oil cooler is leaking oil...badly. Im shocked..."its just been supposedly replaced in Sydney" i tell them. They look at each other with raised eyebrows!

Anyway, i explain to them about the other pinging issue that had now gotten much worse, the really bad timing chain rattle on cold starts, and that i was certain that i could at times hear one of the tappets knocking sometimes. They ask if i can give them permission for a mechanic to take the car home for a night or two so they can drive the car for an extended period to really assess the noises I'm claiming to be able to hear.

well last Friday afternoon, i get "the phone call"...you know the bad phone call. The service manager tells me that they have gone over the engine and are convinced that the issues with it are such that in all honesty, they would prefer to put an entirely new engine in the car. They are concerned that I've had such a bad run with it, and given they really don't want to try to fix a lemon and be burnt themselves, a request has been put into Jeep for a replacement pentastar v6.

So...i have a $115,000k AUD Gladiator that in the last 5 months has been in a Jeep workshop for almost 3 months of that time. Honestly, WTF am i paying car payments at the rate of $1869 per month, for a vehicle i don't even have in my garage? In addition to that, I've spent almost $2000 on hire cars (i know i know it should be a lot more given the amount of time, however, I'm trying to only hire a car when i absolutely need one for work).

The irony of all of the above...i absolutely love my Jeep, i really do. Its by far the best car i have ever owned myself and i love the Tonka truck look. Ive had it in some tough tracks as well as on the beach and absolutely loved it, a brilliant 4wd given its wheelbase. Its my absolute pride and joy and i would buy another one in a heartbeat. The only thing is, if i could give one piece of advice to Jeep engineers...it has a huge pitfall...

WHY THE FUCK DO YOU KEEP PUTTING THAT SHIT V6 ENGINE AND 550 N/m TRANSMISSION IN A NEARLY 3 TON GLADIATOR??? Even the Wrangler has a v8 option as well as a stronger transmission at 750N/m and the Wranglers are a lighter car.

YOU HAVE GOT FUCKING ROCKS IN YOUR HEADS.

FIND A SMALL V8 DIESEL (like the 4.5 litre engine in my wifes 2019 toyota 200 series landcruiser) and build gladiators with a decent engine ffs! I don't give a shit about environmental protection when this piece of shit engine is burning and leaking oil all over the fucking ground, and running so badly its pollution system is shitting itself trying to cope (I've had 3 failed O2 sensors as well).

I wont even get into towing...i got absolutely eaten/overtaken by a Toyota Hilux (2.8ltr 4cyl turbo diesel) towing a 2.5 ton caravan and you know what i was towing? A fucking 440kg trailer with a small ride on lawnmower on it!!!

Not only that, t oadd insult to injury, the Hilux is pulling that 2.5 ton van whilst burning on a little more than half the fuel i was!

BTW...just to cap off...apparently jeep sales in Australia have had the bum fall out (dropping from something like 39,000 vehicles in 2022 to 4900 vehicles in 2023). Clearly someone is deaf! Instead of fixing the bloody design issues with Jeep vehicles, the solution...drop the price by $20,000 AUD. Fucking great for me....my $115k AUD Gladiator just had the ass fall out of its value so much so that now i owe a shitload more on the car than its actually worth thanks to that retail screw-over!

Im sorry for descending into a swearing rant...but I'm hopeful that others will follow suit and maybe someone at Jeep will grow a brain! So close to an iconic vehicle but so far from fit for purpose given that engine and gearbox paring!

BTW...as an afterthought...some trivia for those who may not know...

the pentastar v6 engine uses old technology "port injection". Port injection doesnt operate as efficiently as direct injection, however, one known benefit of port injection is that fuel is injected into the port before the intake valve means that the upper cylinder should stay relatively clean compared with direct injection because it cleans the recycled oil out of the intake ports and around the valve seats. Apparently my Pentastar engine doesnt work by those rules...so that gives an idea of how bad the near new PCV valve was at 12,000 km service when it started pinging! (with the exception of two tanks of 95, i have only ever run the highest octane fuel in this car which in Aus is 98)

Sell the Jeep ,Get a Horse.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Sell the Jeep ,Get a Horse.

Naw, get a mule. When travelling trails with other mules, those critters are smart - the lead mule has ears listening up front and knows it's the lead animal while the one at the rear listens from behind. The ones in the middle listen to the sides and all directions.
Then after a while, they switch roles - they literally share roles of lead and trail animal.
They are crazy smart animals on trails. They can also walk up to a fence or whatever, study, and jump right over it.

 

[legacy_etu]

Naw, get a mule. When travelling trails with other mules, those critters are smart - the lead mule has ears listening up front and knows it's the lead animal while the one at the rear listens from behind. The ones in the middle listen to the sides and all directions.
Then after a while, they switch roles - they literally share roles of lead and trail animal.
They are crazy smart animals on trails. They can also walk up to a fence or whatever, study, and jump right over it.

Seriously? The things you learn on a car forum. Always figured mules were dumb, strong and have stamina, but dumb. Live and learn.

I'd like to see one jump over a fence though. Having trouble seeing that.

Sponsored