Diesel Tuners Indicted for smuggling...

[biodiesel]

I don't mind staying emissions compliant for 15 years, but what's going to happen when parts that are needed to keep the truck compliant are no longer supported?

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[WILDHOBO]

So it’s okay that your gas gladiator doesn’t meet the requirements the EPA set for it just because it’s not your daily, it’s ok that it uses more fuel and isn’t as efficient because it’s yours and it just uses gas? Ok I’m seeing your logic now… Also you purchased an EV to compensate for driving your gladiator. Do you not understand how much pollution is created to produce your “clean” battery. Just because you don’t see the pollution in your city doesn’t mean its not being created. All the massive diesel machinery required to get the many materials out of the ground, transporting it to the processing and manufacturing centers which also cause massive amounts of prolusion just refining the materials, then transporting it all across the ocean is producing more emissions than your saving. Not to mention when the batteries catch on fire and cant be extinguished from the massive amount of heat. Or after the useful life of the battery is up how is disposing it good for the environment with all the toxic materials, then having to purchase another battery if you are planning to keep the same car that is…. It may piss you off but I think it’s offensive how naïve people are regarding their EVs and how “clean" they are, or how they are saving the environment bs.
Also you statement is incorrect that leaded gas isn't legal anymore but not sure what your point was with that.

I’m in no way naive. I’m not breaking the law. And my EV is MUCH lower on emissions than a diesel. Even if you take into account the mining and electricity generation for it. MUCH lower. But keep using the same debunked arguments while you break the law and circumvent those laws that keep your air cleaner.

And my gas gladiator that gets 15mpg creates way less pollution than your diesel, even without deleting it illegally.

 

[WILDHOBO]

So it’s okay that your gas gladiator doesn’t meet the requirements the EPA set for it just because it’s not your daily, it’s ok that it uses more fuel and isn’t as efficient because it’s yours and it just uses gas? Ok I’m seeing your logic now… Also you purchased an EV to compensate for driving your gladiator. Do you not understand how much pollution is created to produce your “clean” battery. Just because you don’t see the pollution in your city doesn’t mean its not being created. All the massive diesel machinery required to get the many materials out of the ground, transporting it to the processing and manufacturing centers which also cause massive amounts of prolusion just refining the materials, then transporting it all across the ocean is producing more emissions than your saving. Not to mention when the batteries catch on fire and cant be extinguished from the massive amount of heat. Or after the useful life of the battery is up how is disposing it good for the environment with all the toxic materials, then having to purchase another battery if you are planning to keep the same car that is…. It may piss you off but I think it’s offensive how naïve people are regarding their EVs and how “clean" they are, or how they are saving the environment bs.
Also you statement is incorrect that leaded gas isn't legal anymore but not sure what your point was with that.

So sorry. Leaded gas isn’t legal in passenger cars or personal watercraft anymore. And yes, I think it shouldn’t be legal in planes either. I’ll certainly support it when that changes.

If you don’t like the laws, vote to change them instead of breaking them, and then justifying your illegal activity by pointing fingers at lithium mining.

 

[WILDHOBO]

I don't mind staying emissions compliant for 15 years, but what's going to happen when parts that are needed to keep the truck compliant are no longer supported?

I guess you’ll need to cross that bridge when we get to it. By your screen name, you’re already trying to improve things. Kudos.

 

[Badunit]

I find it odd that most smog-related modifications come with the "For Off Road Use" disclaimer, yet it's never the consumer that they go after, when it's the consumer who actually commits the violation. My thoughts on that are because the consumer doesn't have a large pile of money; the companies do. Sorta of feels like it's more about a money-grab than actually trying to make the air cleaner doesn't it?

My Disclaimer: I don't feel the government should go after anybody until they adopt an EPA plan that actually works and not just line their pockets.

Here is the relevant part of the code (with the most relevant part in bold):

It is illegal for "for any person to manufacture or sell, or offer to sell, or install, any part or component intended for use with, or as part of, any motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine, where a principal effect of the part or component is to bypass, defeat, or render inoperative any device or element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine in compliance with regulations under this subchapter, and where the person knows or should know that such part or component is being offered for sale or installed for such use or put to such use"

If they knew or should have known the defeated vehicles were being used on-road, no amount of stickers or disclaimers or certifications, promises, or cross-my-hearts by the end-user is going to exonerate them. Smuggling the devices into the country is a red flag that they knew they were breaking the law.

 

[yoda13]

Aa I watch this whole thing unfold and the EPA is hammering these guys with felony raids, 7 figure fines, and jail time..........I just wonder what will happen in the future as the agency grows and they run out of diesel tuners and race shops?

I half expect them to come knocking on my door after retirement to bust me for doing gear swaps, lift kits, and tires over the past 25 years?

You aren’t doing anything illegal. Emissions delete kits are illegal. Modifications aren’t, for the most part, unless they specifically remove or defeat emissions equipment.

 

[Jteakus]

I don't mind staying emissions compliant for 15 years, but what's going to happen when parts that are needed to keep the truck compliant are no longer supported?

This.
Then there is the problem of dealers not being able to correct problems with vehicles they sold leaving the purchaser to try and make the vehicle reliable. Once the dealer drags the purchaser past the warranty period it comes down to cost vs reliability. It isn't always about more power, longevity and better fuel economy. Mostly it boils down to simplicity.

 

[1945gpw]

I’m in no way naive. I’m not breaking the law. And my EV is MUCH lower on emissions than a diesel. Even if you take into account the mining and electricity generation for it. MUCH lower. But keep using the same debunked arguments while you break the law and circumvent those laws that keep your air cleaner.

And my gas gladiator that gets 15mpg creates way less pollution than your diesel, even without deleting it illegally.

I completely get that the end product of an EV is producing very low emissions compared to a gas or diesel side by side. It just seems most people overlook or dismiss what it takes to get that end result. All the pollution required to manufacture that EV produces a much larger carbon footprint.

I know your not breaking any laws by modifying your gas gladiator. And I don't think there should be laws for these types of things. But if they are going to regulate one specific modification for producing more emissions than it was designed or certified for shouldn't all modifications be illegal that would produce more pollution if we are really wanting to save the environment?

I don't agree with your last statement. A diesel truck getting 26 mpg will produce significantly less pollution per mile driven compared to a gas truck getting 15 mpg, even though diesel can produce slightly more CO2 per gallon burned, due to its better fuel efficiency it will burn less fuel overall to travel the same distance.

 

[1945gpw]

So sorry. Leaded gas isn’t legal in passenger cars or personal watercraft anymore. And yes, I think it shouldn’t be legal in planes either. I’ll certainly support it when that changes.

If you don’t like the laws, vote to change them instead of breaking them, and then justifying your illegal activity by pointing fingers at lithium mining.

The general aviation industry is on the path to have a viable alternative to leaded gasoline by 2030 so that's a change we both agree on!

 

[Crane]

I don’t think it's about money. It's easier, cheaper and more efficient to stop something at the source than to track down 100s or 1000s of customers and then penalize.

I would like to believe this is true, but look at what lawyers did to farmers in the late 2000s that were cleaning seed for the following crop year. They first went after the guys that owned the cleaning companies and machines, got them to settle out of court for penalties, and then made them give up their customer list. Then they started going after the individual customers. When you have a legion of attorneys and untapped tax dollars to go after people with, anything is possible.

 

[dwick37]

Look at any of the diesel vehicles or equipment the military operates here or overseas have no emission systems on them.

 

[BourbonRunner]

If they are really concerned about emissions and modifying a vehicle from its original certification given by the epa then they would be going after any modifications that would contribute to more emissions like say installing big tires and lift kits lol.

Altering the vehicle's suspension geometry isn't an emissions related violation because the EPA doesn't have a regulation pertaining specially to that modification. They do have a reg that says the emissions equipment is mandated for the vehicle to be sold on in the US for public road use. Don't give the Feds any ideas, it already is a safety violation in too many states as is.

I don't mind staying emissions compliant for 15 years, but what's going to happen when parts that are needed to keep the truck compliant are no longer supported?

Right? Never has the government ever been lauded for its ability to think and plan for the future...

And besides, how dare you attempt to keep a vehicle on the road for a long period of time?? Don't you know you're so selfish to ignore the inability of the thousands of UAW members, car dealership employees and hedge fund investors not being able to purchase a boat or second home because YOU couldn't selflessly finance a brand new car every 5 years??

We're only left with one option, Citizen: You are hereby ordered to light a pound of thermite on the engine block of your otherwise serviceable truck and trade it in on your next vehicle, schnell!

 

[biodiesel]

And besides, how dare you attempt to keep a vehicle on the road for a long period of time??

I hope we don't resort to failed programs like Cash for Clunkers. That was a sad time in America.

We don't have emissions testing in rural New Mexico; therefore, you can literally delete a brand-new diesel vehicle the day after you buy it with no accountability, questions, or consequences. The laws are very confusing. On one hand, the federal government has given the EPA authority to enforce environmental laws, but when legal action is needed against a business, they have the Department of Justice file the lawsuit on behalf of the EPA. But when it comes down to you and me, it becomes a States' Rights issue. Well, the State of New Mexico has said they don't require emissions testing or any level of accountability on personal vehicles.

This is the problem with creating laws when there's no real enforcement behind them. It reminds me of the immigrants who come into our country illegally, but we use taxpayer money to protect and support them. The EPA says it's illegal to tamper with the emissions, but the feds continue to subsidize states that don't enforce emissions laws.

While I'm perfectly fine obeying federal emissions laws, I can totally understand why people choose to delete their vehicles especially when reliability suffers and when repair costs are in the thousands of dollars. In my opinion, the EPA would gain much more traction if repairs were either subsidized or used as a tax write-off. Instead, consumers are left with costly repairs.

 

[Jteakus]

To think all this started because a Senator's wife in a convertible Mercedes sitting at a red light got black smoked by a farmer's high school kid in a handed down 12 valve with a modified fuel pin.

 

[Dafonte1968]

I find it really funny that we’re so worried about the “pollution” from our oil burners but nothing is said about cardboard and plastic containers that stupid DEF crap comes in!

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