Trading gas for diesel

[whiteglad]

There are many threads on max tow vs. other models. The factory rating of the max tow on the sport s is the highest. The tires don't appeal so much to many owners. If you want to keep almost all the towing capability, be careful what tires you get. I got 255-80-17 which are more than 10 lb. lighter than the Rubicon tires but 0.3" higher, 1.2" narrower (about the same width as the stock tires). The max tow rating pushes the platform capabilities so it is important to understand how each design feature impacts the tow rating.

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[12BNNT]

if you’re buying a gladiator to pull 7000lbs, you’re buying the wrong class of vehicle

I mostly agree. That’s kinda what I was trying to say in my comparison between choosing a 1/2 ton or 3/4. I guess I should have made the comparison between JT and 1/2 ton. If I was gonna be towing 6-7k once or twice a year and not very far the JT will do it (albeit struggle doing so) yet still be a more compact daily driver and be that off road toy as well. As I said, got mine as an all in one vehicle. If I was going to be towing 7k multiple times a year for long distances, the smart choice would be a full size that wouldn’t be maxed out and straining to do so. I HAVE considered the idea of getting a nicely equipped full size ram for the price of my JTR and a toy hauler camper that could be our camper as well as tow an older 2dr wrangler for those off-road weekends but then I loose the daily driving ease and have multiple vehicles to maintain. If I keep the camper under 6k, the JT will do the job and be my all in one vehicle.

I do think it odd that the towing limit factor on the JT is cooling. You would think they could put a fatter radiator and stronger fan in it and possibly make the hood vents functional to eliminate the problem and use more of the diesels potential.

 

[WXman]

if you’re buying a gladiator to pull 7000lbs, you’re buying the wrong class of vehicle

What would be the correct class of vehicle to pull 7,000 lbs? If you go over to the HD truck forums, they're talking about 15,000 to 25,000 lbs. They'd laugh at somebody buying one of those trucks to only pull 7,000.

The only time I've gone up in truck class is when towing fork lifts and other heavy equipment on heavy equipment trailers. We're talking well north of 6 tons.

I mostly agree. That’s kinda what I was trying to say in my comparison between choosing a 1/2 ton or 3/4. I guess I should have made the comparison between JT and 1/2 ton. If I was gonna be towing 6-7k once or twice a year and not very far the JT will do it (albeit struggle doing so) yet still be a more compact daily driver and be that off road toy as well. As I said, got mine as an all in one vehicle. If I was going to be towing 7k multiple times a year for long distances, the smart choice would be a full size that wouldn’t be maxed out and straining to do so. I HAVE considered the idea of getting a nicely equipped full size ram for the price of my JTR and a toy hauler camper that could be our camper as well as tow an older 2dr wrangler for those off-road weekends but then I loose the daily driving ease and have multiple vehicles to maintain. If I keep the camper under 6k, the JT will do the job and be my all in one vehicle.

I do think it odd that the towing limit factor on the JT is cooling. You would think they could put a fatter radiator and stronger fan in it and possibly make the hood vents functional to eliminate the problem and use more of the diesels potential.

What's the difference between a JT and a "1/2 ton" truck? Payload? No, JT has the same payload (actually more when compared to many full size truck configurations). Towing rating? Yeah, the full size 1/2 tons start in the 7,000 lb. range and go up to around 10,000 max in crew cab form, whereas the mid size 1/2 tons are maxing out just below 8,000. So there's a SMALL difference. But on paper, there's really no difference between, say, a JT Gladiator and a Ram 1500.

You do make a good point about frequency of towing, and that's what I was going to mention. If you're towing 7,000 lbs. daily or at least on a weekly basis, then I would agree with what TheSolarWizard said above. But if you're towing 7,000 lbs. occasionally for recreational reasons, why wouldn't a truck rated 7,650 using the J2807 method for safety and consistency not work? It would actually make the JT the perfect truck.

 

[whiteglad]

I have a Ram 3500 single rear wheel with Cummins and Aisin transmission. It is great for towing my trailers which run 5000-8000 lb. It is rated to tow 17,000 with the 3.42 gears. Regarding towing, my JT is a back-up vehicle which might also be used if going hunting, etc. where I want to run trails as well. Here in the desert southwest, towing ability can be affected considerably by altitude, long uphill climbs, and high ambient temperatures.

 

[TheSolarWizard]

A half ton for > 6000lbs until you start going north of 10-11k then it’s HD time, even though there are a bunch of half tons rated to pull > 12000

 

[12BNNT]

What would be the correct class of vehicle to pull 7,000 lbs? If you go over to the HD truck forums, they're talking about 15,000 to 25,000 lbs. They'd laugh at somebody buying one of those trucks to only pull 7,000.

The only time I've gone up in truck class is when towing fork lifts and other heavy equipment on heavy equipment trailers. We're talking well north of 6 tons.



What's the difference between a JT and a "1/2 ton" truck? Payload? No, JT has the same payload (actually more when compared to many full size truck configurations). Towing rating? Yeah, the full size 1/2 tons start in the 7,000 lb. range and go up to around 10,000 max in crew cab form, whereas the mid size 1/2 tons are maxing out just below 8,000. So there's a SMALL difference. But on paper, there's really no difference between, say, a JT Gladiator and a Ram 1500.

You do make a good point about frequency of towing, and that's what I was going to mention. If you're towing 7,000 lbs. daily or at least on a weekly basis, then I would agree with what TheSolarWizard said above. But if you're towing 7,000 lbs. occasionally for recreational reasons, why wouldn't a truck rated 7,650 using the J2807 method for safety and consistency not work? It would actually make the JT the perfect truck.

This is why I’m planning my next JT to be the diesel. Right now my camper weighs just under 5k. We’ve looked at a few that were roomier and weigh in at about 6k. Towing the 5k to Yellowstone, the JT kept 70 going up the hills in SD, WY, and MT (& the hills in MO that are steep enough for truck lanes) but it was running 4th gear at close to 6k rpm. Temps never got high at all but I didn’t like reving the engine that high. Seemed like it was having to work pretty hard to keep the pace not to mention getting 9mpg average. Pulling a 6k camper 3 or 4 long trips like that and maybe a half dozen shorter trips in between, isn’t too much to ask of a truck rated for 7k towing but I think the diesel would not have to work nearly as hard to accomplish the same. Add to that the better mileage/range in daily driving and better crawling control off road would make it a perfect all in one truck.
The only catch I see is the 6k tow rating on the diesel due to cooling. The same motor is rated for how many pounds in the full size Ram that has a higher vehicle weight? If Jeep could just make a different hood for the diesels that allowed for better cooling (and therefore better towing numbers) I’m sure they would sell a slew of them.

 

[2Jeeps&PatriotX1]

My f150 supercrew w/ 3.5ecoboost when taking into account GVWR and the weight of my truck, its max towing is 10,400lbs.

 

[cecaa850]

The Cummins has been a great engine in the Rams, and from the beginning was preferred for its power, mileage, resale value, and durability. The VM 3.0, not so much. Tuning to meet EPA has hurt power and mileage. The engine design is not so durable. The fuel tank is smaller so don't think the increased mpg will give great range per tankful. The Cummins gave/gives more towing capability, but the JT is platform limited not engine limited. With the emissions traps, I only use my Ram for heavy towing now. It is less practical for short trips solo, especially in the winter.

I have no faith in Fiats ability to make a diesel powerplant that even remotely comes close to Cummins in reliability or longevity. I have a friend that works for a Dodge Jeep store. They NEVER do work on Cummins internals and they swap Ecodiesels out all the time that puked crank bearings. If you need to tow, buy a real diesel.

 

[WXman]

I have no faith in Fiats ability to make a diesel powerplant that even remotely comes close to Cummins in reliability or longevity. I have a friend that works for a Dodge Jeep store. They NEVER do work on Cummins internals and they swap Ecodiesels out all the time that puked crank bearings. If you need to tow, buy a real diesel.

Fiat has been around for 121 years, 110 of which they've had a presence in the U.S. They've been making diesel engines almost the entire time for everything from locomotives to agricultural equipment to aircraft. They know their way around a diesel.

Unfortunately the 3.0L EcoDiesel is not a Fiat engine. It's a VM, and it's had a poor track record mainly because of U.S. EPA regulations. It's a shame, but our government has a way to ruining everything.

 

[FLUndertaker]

If you can find a trustworthy shop to fully delete the diesel and a competent tuner once it’s been unburdened than go for it and pls PM the names of both do I can trade mine in a buy a diesel. However, finding anyone willing to do the delete has gotten almost impossible because of the penalties they face if caught, just ask the Diesel Bros. A shop by me, Rudy’s Diesel, used to delete everything. They routinely had trucks featured in Diesel Magazine, 2 years ago I inquired about work on my Cummins and you would have thought I asked about murder for hire based on their reaction. They got really defensive and acted like they had no idea what I was talking about. Funny since every employee truck in the parking lot had a sewer pipe from the turbo back and not a recirculator in sight!

 

[cecaa850]

Fiat has been around for 121 years, 110 of which they've had a presence in the U.S. They've been making diesel engines almost the entire time for everything from locomotives to agricultural equipment to aircraft. They know their way around a diesel.

Unfortunately the 3.0L EcoDiesel is not a Fiat engine. It's a VM, and it's had a poor track record mainly because of U.S. EPA regulations. It's a shame, but our government has a way to ruining everything.

Fiat doesn't make these motors, you're correct however they are signing off on them.

I seem to remember Fiat getting run out of the US back in the 70s due to their vehicles catching fire. Yugo was originally a Fiat model as well.

Our government hasn't ruined Cummins motors so obviously it can be done. The ecodiesels that are having engine swaps aren't failing because of emmissions, it's oiling related so that's not an excuse either. Of course they're having emmission related issues as well with egr coolers leaking internally and catching engines on fire. They even stopped selling ecodiesels for 6 or 8 months due to them trying to cheat emmission testing ala VW. I see no reason to think that their 3rd iteration of this motor will be any better. Yes, they make a quality product.

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