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Daily cost of diesel vs gas?

biodiesel

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The eco diesel is a $4000 option per my dealer not $5000.
Okay, $4,000 dollars. How long do you think you'll need to drive your EcoDiesel Wrangler/Gladiator before you will pay for the engine? 20 years?

DEF is cheap and a DEF fill lasts 10,000 miles according to Jeeps specs (which is why the fuel tank is smaller to accomodate the DEF tank.
So far, those who own the new 3rd gen EcoDiesel are surprised by how quick the DEF is consumed. On average, I'm adding a 2.5 gallon jug once per month to my 2015 EcoDiesel. So, $7.88 per x 12 months = $94.56 per year.

Since my dealer charges $75 for an oil change on the Pentastar every 5K miles. You can buy the oil change kit online for $85 or less and do it yourself or pay your local garage $20 ($100 total) is stands to reason the cost could be $25 more than the gas. So the cost isn't that much more and the manual on the Ram eco diesel says 10,000 miles or whenever the dash light tells you to change it. So even if you had the service done at the dealer for twice the cost of the 3.6 gas engine, you can drive twice as many miles between changes..
Do you know how much an oil filter costs for the EcoDiesel? If you are lucky, you might find the filter for $45 bucks. The oil will be another $7.00 per quart. 7.00 x 8.5 quarts = $59 dollars+ $45 for the filter = $104 if you change the oil yourself. This doesn't even factor the fuel filter changes. If you don't change the fuel filter yourself, you are looking at over $80+ bucks just to change the fuel filter.

According to the manual, the oil change interval for the Gladiator Pentastar recommends that you follow the onboard system which could be anywhere between between 7500 and 10,000 miles. The same for the EcoDiesel. I do some towing, so my onboard system tells me to change my oil at around 6,500 miles.

Your argument does not make any sense.
My argument not only makes sense, but it's mathematically proven. You are not going to save money owning a modern day diesel. And I'm not even talking about the cost of repairs.
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steelponycowboy

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Well no sense in getting into a pissing contest over this. You have your opinion, I have mine. Since you don't have a Gladiator Diesel how can you quote anything from a manual that doesn't exist yet.

At my experience with the 3.6 at 14mpg (3.6, 4.88 gears, 35x12.50x17 MTRs), 25K (I drive all over the country several times a year on overland trips ranging from 7 days to 30 days long) miles a year is about 1785 gallons. The stated eco diesel MPG in their press release of 28 uses 892 gallons. Where I live, pre virus, gas and diesel were both right at $3 a gallon and I have no doubt that when this is over, it will go back to that from the $2.56 (gas prices in Phoenix sucks) it is today. With those numbers I will spend $5357 a year on gas and only $2676 on diesel. At those numbers I'll save $2681 with the diesel so it will pay for itself in less than 2 years. As for oil change maintenance, I found the complete oil change kit online that incliudes all the filers and full syn oil for $85. Do a search and save money.

You are not going to change my mind or anyone else who is looking for a diesel Jeep.
 

biodiesel

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Well no sense in getting into a pissing contest over this. You have your opinion, I have mine.
This conversation isn't opinion, it's math. Math doesn't lie.

Since you don't have a Gladiator Diesel how can you quote anything from a manual that doesn't exist yet.
We can make some assumptions that the manual for the Gladiator EcoDiesel will be the same as the Ram and Wrangler EcoDiesel, can't we?

At my experience with the 3.6 at 14mpg (3.6, 4.88 gears, 35x12.50x17 MTRs), 25K (I drive all over the country several times a year on overland trips ranging from 7 days to 30 days long) miles a year is about 1785 gallons. The stated eco diesel MPG in their press release of 28 uses 892 gallons. Where I live, pre virus, gas and diesel were both right at $3 a gallon and I have no doubt that when this is over, it will go back to that from the $2.56 (gas prices in Phoenix sucks) it is today. With those numbers I will spend $5357 a year on gas and only $2676 on diesel. At those numbers I'll save $2681 with the diesel so it will pay for itself in less than 2 years.
You obviously haven't owned an EcoDiesel, or been on the Ram EcoDiesel forums, or followed the Wrangler EcoDiesel. On most EcoDiesel forums, people agree that there is no more than a 4 mpg difference between the Pentastar and the EcoDiesel when equipped and driven similarly. If you do the math, there is very little cost advantage in fuel savings (if any) between the two engines considering the difference in fuel prices.

As for oil change maintenance, I found the complete oil change kit online that incliudes all the filers and full syn oil for $85. Do a search and save money..
Show me the $85 dollar online oil change kit. Just the fuel filter alone is $45!

You are not going to change my mind or anyone else who is looking for a diesel Jeep.
I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. I'm simply stating the facts based on real-world experience and what the math says.
 

WXman

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Well no sense in getting into a pissing contest over this. You have your opinion, I have mine. Since you don't have a Gladiator Diesel how can you quote anything from a manual that doesn't exist yet.

At my experience with the 3.6 at 14mpg (3.6, 4.88 gears, 35x12.50x17 MTRs), 25K (I drive all over the country several times a year on overland trips ranging from 7 days to 30 days long) miles a year is about 1785 gallons. The stated eco diesel MPG in their press release of 28 uses 892 gallons. Where I live, pre virus, gas and diesel were both right at $3 a gallon and I have no doubt that when this is over, it will go back to that from the $2.56 (gas prices in Phoenix sucks) it is today. With those numbers I will spend $5357 a year on gas and only $2676 on diesel. At those numbers I'll save $2681 with the diesel so it will pay for itself in less than 2 years. As for oil change maintenance, I found the complete oil change kit online that incliudes all the filers and full syn oil for $85. Do a search and save money.

You are not going to change my mind or anyone else who is looking for a diesel Jeep.
- Because the same engine that's (maybe) going into the Gladiator is already in the Ram and Wrangler. So everybody already knows what it costs to maintain.

- On the Gen 3 engine it is impossible to buy the oil and filters you need for $80. Stop searching. It can't be done.

- National average difference between gas and diesel was 0.40 cents before the pandemic and its more now. Not pennies. Quarters. In favor of gas.

- You will not get your money back on the diesel. Ever. Not now. Not five years from now. And most definitely not once you pay for the first emissions repair or fuel system repair out of warranty.
 

biodiesel

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People don't understand that the fuel savings isn't there. Let's look at the EPA numbers. According to the EPA, the diesel is going to cost you $50 more per year!

Wrangler Pentastar
21 MPG (combined)
21 City and 22 Highway
Annual estimated fuel cost: $1,500

Wrangler EcoDiesel
25 MPG (combined)
22 City and 29 Highway
Annual estimated fuel cost: $1,550

Source of information: www.fueleconomy.gov

Right now (4/7/2020) where I live, diesel fuel is $2.54. Gasoline is $1.89 for lowgrade and $2.19 for midgrade. The owner's manual for the Pentastar says to run 87 octane (midgrade). So as of today, the difference is .35 cents. That's a $7.00 difference in cost for 20 gallons of fuel.
 
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Oilburner

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At my experience with the 3.6 at 14mpg... 25K miles a year is about 1785 gallons...gas and diesel at $3 a gallon.
With those numbers I will spend $5357 a year on gas.
The reality is that you will probably get ~4mpg better with the diesel. That would be 18mpg. At your $3/gal price & same miles, you would spend $4,167 per year on fuel (plus diesel fuel additive, which I Highly recommend). Savings of $1,190 max.

I found the complete oil change kit online that incliudes all the filers and full syn oil for $85.
I think you are seeing information on the Gen II Ecodiesel, the Gen III takes a different filter (comes with the housing) and as of right now requires different oil too = no more using Rotella synth. This will hopefully change but we can't assume that. Oil changes are much higher vs gas. Not sure how fuel filters compare to the earlier diesel versions (an additional cost)

You are not going to change my mind or anyone else who is looking for a diesel Jeep.
No one wants to talk you out of getting a diesel - me & the other chuckleheads replying here are only trying to make you aware of actual costs, because we own/have owned Ecodiesels. I had a Gen II and now have a new Gen III. We love them else we would not pay that steep upcharge and the additional costs involved in ownership. You 'might' save some coin on gear upgrades if you go with larger tires & you will likely get a bit more when you eventually sell your 3.0L but overall your Ecodiesel will not 'save' you money - no way, no how.
Performance ain't free...
 

Gladiator4Runner

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- Because the same engine that's (maybe) going into the Gladiator is already in the Ram and Wrangler. So everybody already knows what it costs to maintain.

- On the Gen 3 engine it is impossible to buy the oil and filters you need for $80. Stop searching. It can't be done.

- National average difference between gas and diesel was 0.40 cents before the pandemic and its more now. Not pennies. Quarters. In favor of gas.

- You will not get your money back on the diesel. Ever. Not now. Not five years from now. And most definitely not once you pay for the first emissions repair or fuel system repair out of warranty.
But you're a meteorologist.... you don't ever get anything right! (low hanging fruit- just joking with you)
 

InvertedAerialX

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I know I am about to be told I'm WRONG..or just an idiot, but here goes... First off my math will be off slightly due to rounding errors as I live in Canada.

Here is the way I look at it. The diesel here is $9,000 more (in the Wrangler as the JT doesn't have the option yet). Right Now 87 it is 0.61c / Litre ($2.44/US Gal). However let's use REAL WORLD numbers.

87 = $1.25/L ($5.00/Gal)
LS Diesel = $1.37/L ($5.48/Gal)

3.6/18 MPG Avg (Based on driving it around in town and on the highway for 500kms / 310Mi )
3.0/34 MPG Avg (Based on recent video in B.C.)

So again, two new engines lets give more to the Gas and pull some away from the diesel.

3.6/21 MPG Avg
3.0/30 MPG Avg

on the 3,600km round (1,988 mile) trip I take every 2 to 3 months it would be...

3.6 = 94.67Gal (378.67L)
3.0 = 66.27Gal (256.07L)

3.6 = $473.35
3.0 = $363.16

Now...let's see how many times I stop for fuel/gas/diesel/go juice or whatever the hell you want to call it.

3.6 - JL Fourms state fill ups 17.5 Gal (for 21.5Gal tank)
3.0 - Some random fact sheet 14.0 for (18.0 Gal tank)

3.6 = 5.40 Stops
3.0 = 4.73 Stops

So what this means is I am buying a frickin HONDA Civic Hatchback!

I originally set out to prove to myself that a diesel would be more useful, fun and just all around better vehicle. Longer road trips, less stops better gas mileage.

It sure as hell not worth the $9,000 premium for the number of times I am going to tow. Which is a atv trailer / boat trailer / camper (almost every weekend).

I know I have not added in maintenance, or oil changes. I know there is a difference, but not nearly as significant as fuel or engine cost, imho.

Now what I do want to know is what the difference would be if I started lugging the ATV trailer back and forth on the long trips...that would probably up the ante for the diesel significantly.

ATV Trailer - 32'2" x 7.5 // 2,950lbs empty // 6,500lbs (ish) full
Boat - 7,000lbs
Camper - 7,000lbs when full of all the stuff

Please let me know your thoughts, questions, comments, concerns.

As for towing, I KNOW they say that the diesel tows less...no it doesn't. It maybe not be able to stop as much, but a 3.0L diesel cannot possible tow less that a 3.6L gas. Maybe it's the brakes, maybe it's the frame, maybe it's the suspension, but there is no way that diesel can pull less that a NA 3.6 Gas.
 

smlobx

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Hey guys-

Let me bring another piece of information to the discussion. First off I have had many diesel vehicles and equipment as I owned a construction company so you know where my biases lie .

For those of you concerned about the pump cost of diesel I found out about a program that is what trucking companies use to pay significantly less than what is advertised at the pump at certain fuel stops.

The savings can vary from $0.10 to over $0.90 per gallon!

While it probably won’t settle the discussion on this site It could be of use to those of you that do a significant amount of driving..

Here’s the thread about it on another site..

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1603230-tsd-logistics-fuel-program.html
 

biodiesel

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I originally set out to prove to myself that a diesel would be more useful, fun and just all around better vehicle. Longer road trips, less stops better gas mileage.
I'm not going to check your math because I've already done the math. No matter how you look at it, modern diesel engines are more expensive to buy, maintain, and repair. There isn't a cost savings.

You don't buy a diesel to save money, you buy a diesel because you love the performance, capability, and driveability. Those who enjoy modifying their engines may also prefer a diesel since there are more things that can be done with a diesel engine (turbos, tuning, engine components, fuel modifcations, cold air intake, intercooler, etc.). People like me find gasoline engines a little boring. Yes, I think a Hellcat is pretty cool in a Dodge Challenger, but I'd rather have a diesel in a Jeep.
 

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steelponycowboy

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I guess there are lots of reasons to buy a diesel JT, perhaps one against, the added cost (and maybe you can't spend any time south of the border because ULSD isn't widely available).

All of the reviews I've read about the diesel JL say that the diesel shines off road with it's low end torque (it crawls up and over with absolute ease) and on road for it's MPG. I don't know if we've seen any figures on the towing capacity of the diesel JT but I don't know why anyone would say it would be less than the gas model, perhaps on the JL with it's standard Wrangler frame but the JT has a truck frame in the rear and he Mojaves frame is reinforced even more.

Yes more expensive to maintain (no $19 oil changes) but if it's like most diesels, it will last twice as many miles as the typical gas engine and give you better performance than the gas model.

Besides, who doesn't love the smell of diesel exhaust in the morning ;-)
 

biodiesel

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I don't know if we've seen any figures on the towing capacity of the diesel JT but I don't know why anyone would say it would be less than the gas model, perhaps on the JL with it's standard Wrangler frame but the JT has a truck frame in the rear and he Mojaves frame is reinforced even more.
"The 3.o-liter EcoDiesel V6 engine, available on the Gladiator at a later date, will be a powerhouse, cranking out 442 lb-ft of torque. But it won't achieve the full 7650-lb towing capacity of the base Gladiator engine, the 3.6-liter Pentastar V6. Simply put, the turbodiesel's charge-air cooler eats up some of the airflow coming through the grille, slightly reducing the effective cooling area. Towing numbers are still being finalized for the diesel Gladiator, but expect its towing capacity to be about 500 pounds lower than the gasser."
 

steelponycowboy

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Interesting but thankfully someone in the aftermarket will figure a way around that just as there will be devices to boost both HP and Torque. Still even a 500 lbs lower towing capacity, 7150 lb capacity is still way more than most of us would need.
 

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-3.6 will always be cheaper than the ecodiesel, but the lifetime threshold is a couple grand

-no ones mentioned that the 3.6 JT on 35s instantly gets you 14mpg; ecodiesel will still be 20s and even better with a tune

-those claiming gas can tow better than diesel, I have some land in Florida to sell

-however 3.6 is cheaper and reliable; it’s honestly the best engine for most Jeep guys

-but personally I’m holding out for the diesel. I also prefer power boats to sail boats, and mustangs with the 5.0 versus the ecoboost
 

WXman

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-3.6 will always be cheaper than the ecodiesel, but the lifetime threshold is a couple grand

-no ones mentioned that the 3.6 JT on 35s instantly gets you 14mpg; ecodiesel will still be 20s and even better with a tune

-those claiming gas can tow better than diesel, I have some land in Florida to sell

-however 3.6 is cheaper and reliable; it’s honestly the best engine for most Jeep guys

-but personally I’m holding out for the diesel. I also prefer power boats to sail boats, and mustangs with the 5.0 versus the ecoboost
I wouldn't bet on it. When TFL and other media outlets have tested the EcoDiesel what they noted was that they lost 65% of their fuel economy once they hooked a trailer to it. This is consistent across the board with light duty diesels. They lose LARGE amounts of efficiency once you begin to work them. A JL EcoDiesel owner just did a video the other day where he lost 10 MPG from simply adding 37" tires. TEN MILES PER GALLON gone in an instant with a simple tire swap. This was a purely highway test...in mixed driving the loss will be larger. It's like I've said for years, the more fuel efficient a vehicle is, the more sensitive to change it becomes.

Also, most people are seeing low 20s MPG in mixed city/highway driving on 3.92 gears (Ram) or 3.73 gears (Jeep). That's on stock tires. 35s are going to take you into the teens for mileage rapidly.

I will agree that the Pentastar is the most reliable and simple engine offered, and it costs the least to own and maintain. Sometimes I miss mine. The EcoDiesel is a power house but it ain't cheap or simple.
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