Opinion on trading 2022 JTR for 21 JTRD

[Idlethunder]

I am starting to think seriously about doing something that common sense tells me would be foolish. My 2022 Rubicon 3.6 is now four years old with almost 47k miles. Except for some computer related misfires during the first few months, I’ve had absolutely no trouble out of it. It is my daily, I’ve got it built just like I want and I am 99% happy with it. Just looking at it still makes me smile every time. The only issue, and issue may be too strong a word, is that I want more power.

The plan when I bought it was to engine swap to a 5.7 once it was paid off, and that is still a possibility. What looks like a better option financially, and is something I could do sooner, is trading for a used EcoDiesel. Using Carvana’s current offer as a baseline, I’ve got 11 to 12k equity and trading into a 2021 EcoDiesel with not too many miles is doable and would leave me with money to upgrade anything on the EcoDiesel that I find lacking or that needs to be removed. The downside to trading, and has me feeling silly about the idea, is going backwards a model year and having to pull the upgrades off my 22. To get the most out of a sale or trade I’d go back to stock so I’d remove the Clayton Overland 2.5 lift, RSE sliders, 392 steering wheel with paddle shifters, speaker upgrades, Diode LEDs, LOD bumper and winch, trailer brake controller, MC sector shaft brace and trackbar brace, shocks, tires and wheels, and possibly the recently installed baller joints. None of those things are difficult to replace but they are time consuming for one guy with a floor jack and jack stands. I still have everything except for the original suspension so I’d also have to find a takeoff Rubicon suspension. Mine went to a forum member looking to take his used and lifted Rubicon back to stock. They aren’t expensive or hard to find but acquiring the parts would have to be done. If I am correct in the gas to diesel parts compatibility, the only things I’d have to buy new again would be heavier springs for the lift and shocks.

Because trading would be much cheaper than paying AMW or anyone else for an engine swap, something I don’t have the knowledge or tools to do anyway, and because I’d get the extra power I’ve always wanted, part of me thinks this is a good option. The more reasonable side, what little there is, tells me that backing up a year into a vehicle without warranty and having to remove what has taken a few years to accomplish, is a dumb idea. I bought my current JT with the intention of doing the work myself and never getting rid of it. I’ll be 60 next year, health isn’t great, and I figured this would be the last vehicle I have the strength and energy to mod without help. I am proud of everything I’ve done to this one and selling or trading it off as is isn’t something I’d do but if I took it back to stock, it wouldn’t hurt nearly as much. I work all week and every other weekend so it would take a few weeks to get it back stock then I could hunt for the exact options I want on a diesel.

My question, if you’ve read all the way to here, is how crazy does this sound?

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[MCGladJT]

Not crazy at all, I have finished plenty of vehicles just to find another and start all over again. Mostly with my bikes though. Anyway, why limit to w '21 model year if you have time to search for one? Since it will be a while to take the parts off continue looking for the right diesel for you. If you found one already it may not be there by the time you removed everything, so that is something to keep in mind.

The diesels are great, in my opinion, so to me it would be worth it. Congrats on making it to 60 by the way and its not to old to do the work its just a little slower.

 

[Dilly’S Willy]

I actually considered the Diesel before I got my 2021 gas Willys, simply because I wanted power and better towing/hauling off the lot, and I LOVE a turbo. I honestly didn't mind the 8 speed auto, other than the nannies that have to be disabled (and cost a bit for all of them, compared to nannies on gasser).

The only reason I didn't bother with diesel: EMISSIONS!
- DEF/DPF systems are ASS in an emissions state, and cost more annually than all other maintenance combined (if you drive as much as I do). Factoring the routine fluid consumption (full tank in an oil change or less), and the fact you cannot idle like you can in a gasser due to the regen system.


Really, go watch the Bank Performance video(s) on modern diesel systems and how they destroy engines in modern vehicles. DEF/DPF/EGR deletes are mandatory for modern diesel engines if you want them to last without issues LONG TERM.


If you can afford the maintenance and have a lifestyle that allows the regimen of the JTD, do it. If you don't think you can, or will, commit to the lifestyle...turbo the gasser if your GPEC5 ECM allows reflashing.

Or get a 2021 JTR with the GPEC2 ECM which is fully capable of tuning. You can Supercharge or Turbo with it. A properly sized turbo will respond as good as a SC with less power loss since it's driven by the already existing exhaust gases (like the JTRD you're considering). They have less overall maintenance than the diesel, and don't require any special parts/tools unlike a diesel will (higher torque specs alone).

I watched a video from a guy out west who SC'd his JLUR with 40s, making 400whp he was spinning tires when starting from a 40mph roll...ON 40s!!!!!! A turbo will easily make 400whp and can be tuned to be more "streetable" since you can control boost, unlike a SC where if the rpms are up, you're making boost.

 

[ChrisNLA]

I actually considered the Diesel before I got my 2021 gas Willys, simply because I wanted power and better towing/hauling off the lot, and I LOVE a turbo. I honestly didn't mind the 8 speed auto, other than the nannies that have to be disabled (and cost a bit for all of them, compared to nannies on gasser).

The only reason I didn't bother with diesel: EMISSIONS!
- DEF/DPF systems are ASS in an emissions state, and cost more annually than all other maintenance combined (if you drive as much as I do). Factoring the routine fluid consumption (full tank in an oil change or less), and the fact you cannot idle like you can in a gasser due to the regen system.


Really, go watch the Bank Performance video(s) on modern diesel systems and how they destroy engines in modern vehicles. DEF/DPF/EGR deletes are mandatory for modern diesel engines if you want them to last without issues LONG TERM.


If you can afford the maintenance and have a lifestyle that allows the regimen of the JTD, do it. If you don't think you can, or will, commit to the lifestyle...turbo the gasser if your GPEC5 ECM allows reflashing.

Or get a 2021 JTR with the GPEC2 ECM which is fully capable of tuning. You can Supercharge or Turbo with it. A properly sized turbo will respond as good as a SC with less power loss since it's driven by the already existing exhaust gases (like the JTRD you're considering). They have less overall maintenance than the diesel, and don't require any special parts/tools unlike a diesel will (higher torque specs alone).

I watched a video from a guy out west who SC'd his JLUR with 40s, making 400whp he was spinning tires when starting from a 40mph roll...ON 40s!!!!!! A turbo will easily make 400whp and can be tuned to be more "streetable" since you can control boost, unlike a SC where if the rpms are up, you're making boost.

I don't have anything to add on the diesel, other than I have considered the same (switching), but it's just not worth it to me in the end to start over with payments, etc.

As for the GPEC5, it's supported now. Has been since last spring I believe.

 

[JTdiRtyD]

Four things;

1) Why do you want more power? Is it just to have it, or do you need it?
2) Are you familiar with diesels and the maintenance, and capable of doing it yourself?
3) Much of the stuff you've done to your current truck can transfer to the new one. Really the only difference is going to be front springs.
4) Go test drive one before racking your brain over it, even if it's not the specific one you want.

 

[Stan H]

I am starting to think seriously about doing something that common sense tells me would be foolish. My 2022 Rubicon 3.6 is now four years old with almost 47k miles. Except for some computer related misfires during the first few months, I’ve had absolutely no trouble out of it. It is my daily, I’ve got it built just like I want and I am 99% happy with it. Just looking at it still makes me smile every time. The only issue, and issue may be too strong a word, is that I want more power.

The plan when I bought it was to engine swap to a 5.7 once it was paid off, and that is still a possibility. What looks like a better option financially, and is something I could do sooner, is trading for a used EcoDiesel. Using Carvana’s current offer as a baseline, I’ve got 11 to 12k equity and trading into a 2021 EcoDiesel with not too many miles is doable and would leave me with money to upgrade anything on the EcoDiesel that I find lacking or that needs to be removed. The downside to trading, and has me feeling silly about the idea, is going backwards a model year and having to pull the upgrades off my 22. To get the most out of a sale or trade I’d go back to stock so I’d remove the Clayton Overland 2.5 lift, RSE sliders, 392 steering wheel with paddle shifters, speaker upgrades, Diode LEDs, LOD bumper and winch, trailer brake controller, MC sector shaft brace and trackbar brace, shocks, tires and wheels, and possibly the recently installed baller joints. None of those things are difficult to replace but they are time consuming for one guy with a floor jack and jack stands. I still have everything except for the original suspension so I’d also have to find a takeoff Rubicon suspension. Mine went to a forum member looking to take his used and lifted Rubicon back to stock. They aren’t expensive or hard to find but acquiring the parts would have to be done. If I am correct in the gas to diesel parts compatibility, the only things I’d have to buy new again would be heavier springs for the lift and shocks.

Because trading would be much cheaper than paying AMW or anyone else for an engine swap, something I don’t have the knowledge or tools to do anyway, and because I’d get the extra power I’ve always wanted, part of me thinks this is a good option. The more reasonable side, what little there is, tells me that backing up a year into a vehicle without warranty and having to remove what has taken a few years to accomplish, is a dumb idea. I bought my current JT with the intention of doing the work myself and never getting rid of it. I’ll be 60 next year, health isn’t great, and I figured this would be the last vehicle I have the strength and energy to mod without help. I am proud of everything I’ve done to this one and selling or trading it off as is isn’t something I’d do but if I took it back to stock, it wouldn’t hurt nearly as much. I work all week and every other weekend so it would take a few weeks to get it back stock then I could hunt for the exact options I want on a diesel.

My question, if you’ve read all the way to here, is how crazy does this sound?

Keep it a swap it . Too far in to trade now sorta pointless to go backwards.

 

[MaximusTX]

I did exactly that. I bought a 23 gas JT and after a little while sold it and got a 22 JTRD and haven't looked back and would do it again in a heartbeat. Just know what you are getting into with a diesel. For what it's worth AMW can do a diesel to Hemi swap if you want to that in the future. It costs more than the list price on their website as there is more fabrication work but they can do it.

 

[Swegian]

One little thing about the diesels, I have both a 21 JLU Rubicon & 21 JT Rubicon.

On the JLU, Stock up to 29 in freeway, 25 around town. Put 35"s on. Now 27 freeway, 23-24 around town.

Jt almost the same but about 2 mpg lower.

I live in Washington so fuel taxes are a big deal. I usually can find 3.95-4.59/gallon. Plus the 1/2 tank of def every 3-4k miles from Costco at $10-12.

Shortly after getting the JLU diesel was lower than gas for about a year. But the rest of the time 30-50cents more up here.

But reading these pages regularly if 16mpg around town for 3.6 vs 24mpg in the diesel. And the turbo lets me get to 70 at the on ramp pronto, No issues.

With the JT last summer, Pulling a 3-4k trailer from Seattle to Moab, at 65+-20/mpg average. One evening we did the 80 game on one fill up, which pulled it down to 16/mpg. Meanwhile, my kids in the JLU, no trailer were 25/26+mpg all the way 5+ baggage. Same engine, 21 3.0d.

Oh, and Im right there with you brother, wife got her 2020 JLU Bikini Blue 2.0t @60. Talked me into getting my JLU at 61, I still really wanted a JT, so found a used one with the "required diesel" last April and it joined the family at 66.

I have not found the maintenance any worse on the diesel. The oil is still easy to change and unless you cant lay on your side or back, the fuel filter isn't any harder. Plus, no spark plugs to change.

We use to have a 76 cj5/83 cj8. Younger I moded the cj5 a lot. Wife got in real bad car wreck in the early 90's. After 2 years she still couldnt ride in either. We sold them.‍

So it took me three trips by the Bikini Blue in 2020 with her saying little hints like....that's a cute jeep,...oh, that cute jeep is still there,.....OH! LOOK! at the Big tires they put on that CUTE JEEP.

Yep, I finally got the hint on the Third time.

So next Mondy, im down at the dealership making the deal and call home, "Hi Honey, can you and the dog bring the red truck down to the dealership?" And her reply...."Whyyyyy?"
The sarcasm was dripping in the reply, lol!

Next year she says.......dont you want one again?

Good thing I went back to work after 2 year off after retirement in 2016. Im now in my "Retirement" Vocation.

Im blessed, God lets me get up each morning continuing to serve! And still drive Jeeps.

 

[Idlethunder]

Not crazy at all, I have finished plenty of vehicles just to find another and start all over again. Mostly with my bikes though. Anyway, why limit to w '21 model year if you have time to search for one? Since it will be a while to take the parts off continue looking for the right diesel for you. If you found one already it may not be there by the time you removed everything, so that is something to keep in mind.

The diesels are great, in my opinion, so to me it would be worth it. Congrats on making it to 60 by the way and its not to old to do the work its just a little slower.

I'm not really limited to a 21, just going by the notion that the further back I look, the more the prices drop. Since they only built them for 4 years, fairly low mileage ecodiesels are out there for each year model and using online pricing only, my gasser is basically a straight swap for a 21 with the features I'm looking for. The whole idea may fall apart completely if actually talk to a dealer.

 

[Idlethunder]

Four things;

1) Why do you want more power? Is it just to have it, or do you need it?
2) Are you familiar with diesels and the maintenance, and capable of doing it yourself?
3) Much of the stuff you've done to your current truck can transfer to the new one. Really the only difference is going to be front springs.
4) Go test drive one before racking your brain over it, even if it's not the specific one you want.

My truthful answer to your first question is why I feel foolish about the idea. I don't actually need more power, I just want it. I've used the 3.6 to tow several different travel trailers dozens of times, a flatbed and a couple of boats. Never any problems towing. Until buying the Jeep, I had been loyal to Ford for years with both F150s and F250s in both gas and diesel. In my opinion, the 3.6 JT pulls the trailers I tow just fine. Yes, I have to drive slower but backing off a few mph makes the ride in the JT much better than my last F150. The only times I've ever truly felt under powered is pulling a boat out of the water on a steep ramp and 4lo takes care of that. More power is a want, not a need. Getting on a busy interstate from the ramp with the 3.6 makes me pucker a little but it is doable.

I am familiar with diesels and maintenance isn't a problem. The front springs and maybe the shocks are the only things I think I'd need to replace. I'm running currently running Falcon 3.1 shocks on soft and figure I can try them on stiff before making a desicion. Set to soft on the gasser they still feel fairly stiff so they might still work with a diesel. From what I'm seeing, the diesel adds around 500 pounds. Going to a lighter front bumper than my full width steel LOD is going to save a lot just by itself.

I have driven an ecodiesel and was amazed at the difference. The fuel pump problems was what kept me away when I bought this one but they seemed to have ironed those out

 

[Idlethunder]

Fuel mileage is another reason I’m thinking about trading. With 37s I average 12 to 14 over most tanks with mixed driving. An all highway drive will bump it up around, 16 give or take a little depending on the wind. When towing, it’s around 10 with most everything I've pulled. My last F150 EcoBoost got less than that, but I was driving 8 or 10 mph faster so that’s a wash. I didn’t buy the Gladiator for fuel economy but if I could get it up around 20 empty I’d be thrilled. My business pays for fuel, and I feel bad every time I fill up.

I don’t really go to offroad locations other than the 60 acres we live on and another 120 next door that we have access to. I hunt, fish and chase cows here over patches of sand, rocky creeks, and mud. The Jeep gives me access to everything where I'd get stuck constantly in any of the Fords if I got off the trails and a few times right in the middle of them. I don't strictly need 37s but I justify them because they make getting around a lot easier. I had 35s for several months and I'd scrape with them but never tore anything up. The Jeep did tow a little better with 35s and I lost a mpg when going to 37".

I was in town today, so I spoke to my local dealer and told them about looking for an EcoDiesel. They have been good to me, so I wanted to make sure they were OK doing warranty if I find something with any left. They also took down a list of what I'm looking for and promised to keep their eyes open.

Today has been slow at the office so I've checked off a lot of the concerns I had about trading into a diesel. The biggest reason not to is having to return mine to stock. Tonight, I'll start looking through the garage to see if I do still have most everything except the suspension.

 

[Bacardiac]

Make sure you get the 3rd gen ecodiesel. 78% new parts from previous generation. Also at 63k miles with my JTD and all I had to replace so far is the battery and aux battery which is under the main battery, no pulling out the passenger fender like the JLD. Also just replaced a glow plug ($65). Regular maint is what costs more than gas ( 9 liters of oil per oil change). No def or dpf failures but when I do, she'll get on a diet plan from Canada.

 

[MCGladJT]

JLD aux battery is under the main just like the JTD, it's the non-diesels that are under the fuse box making it easier to go through the passenger inner fender. I've had both JLURD and JTRD.

 

[Vtur]

Before June 2021MY, you gets auto tire fill alert, block heater, and non of the nanny horn beeping features.

 

[Idlethunder]

Before June 2021MY, you gets auto tire fill alert, block heater, and non of the nanny horn beeping features.

Thank you I will keep that date in mind. I knew at some point the heater became an option but never knew when it happened. The tire fill alert looked like a great idea too and the damn beeping horn is nuts

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