Stinging article on Stellantis on CNN. Not looking good.

[Zachanadandy]

You sound like you're budgeting within/below your means. Purposely keeping the payment down to save the extra $100. That's very different than someone claiming $100/month is a lot of money. It simply isn't these days unfortunately. Even fast food workers these days are well over $20/hr locally. If you consider one 4-5hr shift at a fast food restaurant a lot of money I stand by the statement that you probably shouldn't be purchasing new $40k+ vehicles. You've got a plow on your gladiator, I guarantee you could easily make that $100 in a few hours on a snowy Saturday.

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[ShadowsPapa]

Nor does it change the concept that if you're at or near 20% of your take home pay in vehicle expenditures (in total, not just payment) you may very well be living outside your means.

That figure is really overly-simplistic, and has never even come close to fitting our realities here. I can't think of anyone I know personally who is at or near 20%, because if they were, they'd be already looking into debt restructuring or bankruptcy - but then again, I don't know what their housing expenses, real estate taxes and other expenses are.
The real figure is all over the map - depending on so many other factors and expenses.
I've always ignored it and gone by our own numbers, and my wife's spreadsheet (even my first wife had things drawn out on paper, dang smart women)
I determine what can or can't be afforded. The cost of housing is a huge factor - some are spending hundreds more a month than we were, food and other expenses as well. That meant that I had more freedom to determine reality for us. I'd bet that if I looked up my old pay stubs and compared to auto payments back then, we were at 20% or more because other payments were so low. I'd also bet there were years where we weren't even close, because we had other goals.

You can't lump all into the same bucket - for some, that extra 100 is going to cut into other things more important. For others, it's going to cut into other goals - it could be easily afforded, heck yes. At this point, my spreadsheet (or my wife's lists on paper these days) say I could technically "afford it", but not if I want to meet other goals.

The problem is those "formulas" leave out too much and are so general, it's a joke. For some, a vehicle costing even 10-15% of their take home would be a serious issue, for others, it wouldn't even sting a little, and for some, it would mean they can't take a vacation or upgrade windows in their house.
If the house is paid for, or the home mortgage really low each month, then they can afford more. If they went over the top on a home, then they'd better not even come close to 20% for a vehicle.

But people sit back and judge using "experts' numbers" that frankly, don't fit much of the population.

We walk in with a number in mind. They meet it, or we walk. Could we afford the next step up? Probably - but it would mean dropping other plans. Would it be a hardship? No.
And then there's the "I didn't need nor even WANT a Rubicon" when I bought. No way I'd even think of a step up. So this bit about getting the next level up - some don't want it, some prefer to NOT have it.
There's one reason and one reason only my wife has a JLU Rubicon - we could not find a lower level with the options and color in any other level. So we rearranged some finances, put some other things off - and there's a Rubicon in the garage. Really a sad waste - the lockers will never get used, the sway bar disconnects may as well be removed and sold and a standard sway bar put on.
It's another reason I didn't go with Rubicon for my JT - what a waste, and it meant that I could not afford power steps or a snow plow.
So in that respect - I could not afford a Rubicon or Mojave - we could not afford those because it would have cut into other plans - not because we'd be broke (although I'd hate to see lower numbers in the bank)

I almost forgot about the real costs of interest, and opportunity costs - take that extra 100 a month and put it in an IRA or other similar account, maybe money market account. Yes, it would not make a ton, but it would be better than spending it and paying interest on it.
That was my wife's thinking a few years back and how she was able to retire at age 57 and me at 60. We took that extra money the next level up would have cost and invested it.

 

[biodiesel]

You sound like you're budgeting within/below your means. Purposely keeping the payment down to save the extra $100. That's very different than someone claiming $100/month is a lot of money. It simply isn't these days unfortunately. Even fast food workers these days are well over $20/hr locally. If you consider one 4-5hr shift at a fast food restaurant a lot of money I stand by the statement that you probably shouldn't be purchasing new $40k+ vehicles. You've got a plow on your gladiator, I guarantee you could easily make that $100 in a few hours on a snowy Saturday.

That's the point I've been trying to make. $100 dollars is easy to spend and easy to earn.

I wanted to make a little extra money, so I started a side business this year doing tree removal, fire mitigation, and landscaping. When I give bids to my customers, I estimate $75 per hour for labor, then add an extra $50 to $100 for the cost of equipment for each day of work. My wife works with me, so that's $75 for a two-man crew, but we've made over $2,300 in just 6 days of work. The IRS will consider us a hobby business since it's a small seasonal side business, but I wanted to be honest and report the additional income. Plus, I may want to expand the business someday, so I wanted to be as professional as possible.

Nonetheless, I can easily make an additional $1,000 per month by just working 2 - 3 days.

 

[Wheelin98TJ]

That's the point I've been trying to make. $100 dollars is easy to spend and easy to earn.

I wanted to make a little extra money, so I started a side business this year doing tree removal, fire mitigation, and landscaping. When I give bids to my customers, I estimate $75 per hour for labor, then add an extra $50 to $100 for the cost of equipment for each day of work. My wife works with me, so that's $75 for a two-man crew, but we've made over $2,300 in just 6 days of work. The IRS will consider us a hobby business since it's a small seasonal side business, but I wanted to be honest and report the additional income. Plus, I may want to expand the business someday, so I wanted to be as professional as possible.

Nonetheless, I can easily make an additional $1,000 per month by just working 2 - 3 days.

It's either a hobby or a business in the IRS eyes.

If you're losing money, you don't want the IRS to consider it a hobby because the losses are not deductible.

 

[biodiesel]

But people sit back and judge using "experts' numbers" that frankly, don't fit much of the population.

It's not about judging. Those financial guidelines are there to help people grow wealth and be financially independent.

 

[biodiesel]

It's either a hobby or a business in the IRS eyes.

If you're losing money, you don't want the IRS to consider it a hobby because the losses are not deductible.

I have a lot to learn, so I appreciate the feedback. All of the equipment that I'm using is my personal equipment, so I don't have any costs other than chainsaw fuel, chainsaw chains, diesel fuel, etc.

 

[AmosMoses]

This is what CNN does best. Make a bunch of people argue about stuff. I wonder how many people have died in the last 10 years due to sensational headlines. It's not too much different than what Charles Manson did in 60's.

 

[Gvsukids]

A tank of fuel $100.

Fuel must cost a lot where you live

 

[Zachanadandy]

Fuel must cost a lot where you live

It's down a bit now, but still $4.19/gal so only $84 per tank. And just like that from the $5/gal we were paying in the summer I'm saving over $100/month even if I don't take any road trips on just the average use of 1 tank per week. What does the guy who stretched himself to that last $100 in his budget do when gas prices go up again? Sell his truck he clearly couldn't afford in the 1st place?

 

[Greg_L]

This is what CNN does best. Make a bunch of people argue about stuff. I wonder how many people have died in the last 10 years due to sensational headlines. It's not too much different than what Charles Manson did in 60's.

If misleading "news" leading to bad things on and from their audience is the point, then the Fascist Overweight Xenophobe network is even more guilty. I mean, let's be fair here. They're all the same. It's just which side of the seesaw do you sit on? "News" is a business and those businesses pander to specific demographics. Long gone are the days where an impartial old white guy just reads you the news on TV. There is now "news" conveniently divided up into camps and everyone lines right up in their own respective preferred echo chambers. The "news" didn't make people this way. They react to what people actually want - which is biased self-affirming "news" that lines up with what they want to think anyway.

 

[Jrgunn5150]

This is what CNN does best. Make a bunch of people argue about stuff. I wonder how many people have died in the last 10 years due to sensational headlines. It's not too much different than what Charles Manson did in 60's.

This is what news does period.

Every moon is super now, ever problem is existential, every person with different ideals and goals is Stalin..

People should turn it off and go live their lives.

 

[biodiesel]

The fake news outlets seem to be going broke.

 

[AmosMoses]

If misleading "news" leading to bad things on and from their audience is the point, then the Fascist Overweight Xenophobe network is even more guilty. I mean, let's be fair here. They're all the same. It's just which side of the seesaw do you sit on? "News" is a business and those businesses pander to specific demographics. Long gone are the days where an impartial old white guy just reads you the news on TV. There is now "news" conveniently divided up into camps and everyone lines right up in their own respective preferred echo chambers. The "news" didn't make people this way. They react to what people actually want - which is biased self-affirming "news" that lines up with what they want to think anyway.

I agree with pretty much everything you said Greg but I seriously doubt you have a grasp of what "fascist" means.

 

[Greg_L]

I agree with pretty much everything you said Greg but I seriously doubt you have a grasp of what "fascist" means.

I know what it means. Since we're making up cute names for biased for-profit-news businesses that use initials I needed a pejorative "F" word for the F in "FOX" and "fascist" fit the bill in that case.

I could have gone with "fat" but I already had the O pegged for "overweight". Hey its just low hanging fruit. Just a joke.

P.S. - Amos Moses, great song!

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The fake news outlets seem to be going broke.

Comcast is concerned.................

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