Heater/AC blowing hot air at 60 or higher

[PyrPatriot]

Many don’t seem to understand the meaning of an auto HVAC system in vehicles. The temperature you set is the temperature the vehicle is going to try to achieve.

Wait just a minute, just thought of something. If the temperature set is the temp for the cabin, then why can you adjust the temp setting for each side? That would mean the temperature setting is for temp of air going out of vents?

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[Davidarmen]

Wait just a minute, just thought of something. If the temperature set is the temp for the cabin, then why can you adjust the temp setting for each side? That would mean the temperature setting is for temp of air going out of vents?

I’m not completely knowledgeable on the complete workings of these systems either. I would assume the dual zone system works in a manner similar to this: if the cabin temp is say 50, and driver sets dial to 65 and passenger sets to 70. Then once the cabin reaches 65, the driver’s side stops blowing hot air and begins to blow ambient temperature air, but the passenger side continues to blow hot air until the cabin reaches 70 degrees then their side also begins to blow ambient temperature air .
This is a guess though as I’m not totally sure how dual zones work and if they work the same way across all car makes or if each brand has a different implementation.

 

[Mr._Bill]

Wait just a minute, just thought of something. If the temperature set is the temp for the cabin, then why can you adjust the temp setting for each side? That would mean the temperature setting is for temp of air going out of vents?

That means it will attempt to adjust the air coming out of the vents to maintain the temperature differential selected on the controls. The cabin is too small and not well divided for a dual zone system to work well. I keep both zones synced, but I rarely have anyone with me.

 

[danielspivey]

Many don’t seem to understand the meaning of an auto HVAC system in vehicles. The temperature you set is the temperature the vehicle is going to try to achieve. If the cabin temp sensor shows a lower ambient temperature than the temperature you set, it will blow hot air to reach your desired temperature.

It doesn’t matter if you set it to 61 degrees. If the cabin temperature sensor sees that the cabin is, for example, 40 degrees, then setting it to 61 is going to make the vehicle blow hot air until the cabin temperature reaches the desired 61 degrees.

This also works the other way around. If you set it to, for example, 80 degrees, and the cabin temperature sensor reads 90 degrees, then the system is going to blow cold air until the cabin temperature is the desired 80 degrees.

This is the operation of an automatic air conditioning system. The auto can be totally overridden by selecting Lo for Cold air no matter the cabin temperature, and Hi for Hot air no matter the cabin temperature.

Your rant doesn’t help. You aren’t listening. The issue isn’t on auto, you missed the point of the issue people are having.

 

[MrZappo]

Your rant doesn’t help. You aren’t listening. The issue isn’t on auto, you missed the point of the issue people are having.

No, again. It is not a "rant" just because you don't like what he said ... Or don't understand the why of it all. And I'm not being nasty here. Just trying to be clear.

The way he described it is exactly as it works ... And additionally to address what I believe you think is happening and the source of a lot of confusion, there IS NO MANUAL TEMPERATURE MODE no matter the setting.

People are putting these systems into "manual" mode and thinking that they can now control the air temp coming out of the vents ... You can never directly affect or control the air temperature coming out of the vents. And YES I AGREE THAT THIS IS REALLY DUMB . But you cant. (Unless you set it to LO or HI) ... ANYTHING ELSE tries to make the cabin the temp on the display.

Auto mode ONLY automatically controls fan speed AND which vents are used. It still regulates the temperature to the number you set and will raise/lower temp to make that temp. Thats it.

And again, we all agree that it is ridiculous ...

But as far as making it like an old car where you can move a lever and blow whatever temp you desire, that ship has sailed ...

I wish manual was actually 100% manual ... It aint ...

 

[danielspivey]

No, again. It is not a "rant" just because you don't like what he said ... Or don't understand the why of it all. And I'm not being nasty here. Just trying to be clear.

The way he described it is exactly as it works ... And additionally to address what I believe you think is happening and the source of a lot of confusion, there IS NO MANUAL TEMPERATURE MODE no matter the setting.

People are putting these systems into "manual" mode and thinking that they can now control the air temp coming out of the vents ... You can never directly affect or control the air temperature coming out of the vents. And YES I AGREE THAT THIS IS REALLY DUMB . But you cant. (Unless you set it to LO or HI) ... ANYTHING ELSE tries to make the cabin the temp on the display.

Auto mode ONLY automatically controls fan speed AND which vents are used. It still regulates the temperature to the number you set and will raise/lower temp to make that temp. Thats it.

And again, we all agree that it is ridiculous ...

But as far as making it like an old car where you can move a lever and blow whatever temp you desire, that ship has sailed ...

I wish manual was actually 100% manual ... It aint ...

You still haven’t explained why it would blow different temperatures when set at the SAME temperature 1-2 seconds apart.

Dropping it to 61 shouldn’t affect the temperature that 64 blows at.

 

[MrZappo]

You still haven’t explained why it would blow different temperatures when set at the SAME temperature 1-2 seconds apart.

Dropping it to 61 shouldn’t affect the temperature that 64 blows at.

It's because it is not an extremely accurate system. I don't know where the sensors are and I don't believe that they are in great places to provide a perfect environment.

Perhaps they are in the best places available given that jeeps are potentially open air and that needed to be accounted for in the design. I don't know.

Additionally any temp that the system blows is based on a calculation done in a logic circuit/computer program. Not just a simple setting.

The temp you set is only one variable used to determine the final air temp the system puts out.

Now, I don't work for jeep and I did not design this system. I don't have intimate knowledge of the internal programming.

I do have a lot of experience with hvac computer control applications in general and am applying that to this discussion in order to help and for my own understanding of my jeeps system which bugs me as well.

It won't give you exactly what you want or behave exactly the same way all the time as there are likely many variables they are using to set air temp that we don't know about and for whatever reason they won't publish.

If they simply posted a "this is how it works document", these discussions would be unnecessary. It would be nice.

If course they would be replaced by "that sucks, we don't like it, and jeep is dumb" comments so maybe that is why they say nothing.

 

[danielspivey]

It's because it is not an extremely accurate system. I don't know where the sensors are and I don't believe that they are in great places to provide a perfect environment.

Perhaps they are in the best places available given that jeeps are potentially open air and that needed to be accounted for in the design. I don't know.

Additionally any temp that the system blows is based on a calculation done in a logic circuit/computer program. Not just a simple setting.

The temp you set is only one variable used to determine the final air temp the system puts out.

Now, I don't work for jeep and I did not design this system. I don't have intimate knowledge of the internal programming.

I do have a lot of experience with hvac computer control applications in general and am applying that to this discussion in order to help and for my own understanding of my jeeps system which bugs me as well.

It won't give you exactly what you want or behave exactly the same way all the time as there are likely many variables they are using to set air temp that we don't know about and for whatever reason they won't publish.

If they simply posted a "this is how it works document", these discussions would be unnecessary. It would be nice.

If course they would be replaced by "that sucks, we don't like it, and jeep is dumb" comments so maybe that is why they say nothing.

You’ll still missing the point: why do temperatures 61 through HI heat blow only at full heat, and ONLY until you drop the temperature to LOW Does temperatures 61 through 80 represent varied temperatures?

If that’s how the system was “ designed“ The manual would say something like:

When the HVAC system is first turned on temperatures set from 61 to 80° will all blow HI heat. If you would like the system to accurately blow the correct temperature from the vents as set on the display, drop the temperature all the way to LO and then back to desired temperature, and THEN the vent temperature will match the displayed temperature.

Now would that make any sense to you?

 

[MrZappo]

You’ll still missing the point: why do temperatures 61 through HI heat blow only at full heat, and ONLY until you drop the temperature to LOW Does temperatures 61 through 80 represent varied temperatures?

If that’s how the system was “ designed“ The manual would say something like:

When the HVAC system is first turned on temperatures set from 61 to 80° will all blow HI heat. If you would like the system to accurately blow the correct temperature from the vents as set on the display, drop the temperature all the way to LO and then back to desired temperature, and THEN the vent temperature will match the displayed temperature.

Now would that make any sense to you?

Yes. It makes sense to me.

Trust me, I'm not missing the point.

It depends on the temp inside the cab and I believe it also reads the outside air temp and uses it in some way.

Again, you can't control the temperature blown out of the vents. The computer controls that. It decides what to do based on many variables.

What was the temp in the cab when you set it? Many people have stated this same thing in this thread. If it is 40 in the jeep and you set it to 61 or to 85 , it is the same thing. The system will call for heat. Until the cab gets up to the temp you set it to.

Perhaps by you messing with it and dropping to 61 and back up again, you are interrupting the programming in some way and causing it to recalculate and the output temp gets adjusted.

As I said I didn't write the thing.

It's a pain to understand yes but please, as opposed to repeatedly telling me that I'm missing the point, get a thermometer, set the jeep to 70. Put it in auto and see if it gets the cab close to 70 and then automatically adjusts the output temp to keep the cab around 70.

If it does, you will need to get happy with it because that's as good as its going to get.

Unless jeep releases a code update to make it different/better.

 

[danielspivey]

Yes. It makes sense to me.

Trust me, I'm not missing the point.

It depends on the temp inside the cab and I believe it also reads the outside air temp and uses it in some way.

Again, you can't control the temperature blown out of the vents. The computer controls that. It decides what to do based on many variables.

What was the temp in the cab when you set it? Many people have stated this same thing in this thread. If it is 40 in the jeep and you set it to 61 or to 85 , it is the same thing. The system will call for heat. Until the cab gets up to the temp you set it to.

Perhaps by you messing with it and dropping to 61 and back up again, you are interrupting the programming in some way and causing it to recalculate and the output temp gets adjusted.

As I said I didn't write the thing.

It's a pain to understand yes but please, as opposed to repeatedly telling me that I'm missing the point, get a thermometer, set the jeep to 70. Put it in auto and see if it gets the cab close to 70 and then automatically adjusts the output temp to keep the cab around 70.

If it does, you will need to get happy with it because that's as good as its going to get.

Unless jeep releases a code update to make it different/better.

“ Perhaps by you messing with it and dropping to 61 and back up again, you are interrupting the programming in some way and causing it to recalculate and the output temp gets adjusted.”

This is the issue and no one can explain why this only happens on some jeeps and not others. It’s not “made this way” because not all of them do it.

I agree they need to release a flash to make however they designed it... consistent. And then maybe give out some literature to give logic to what the heck their intentions are of the design.

 

[MrZappo]

“ Perhaps by you messing with it and dropping to 61 and back up again, you are interrupting the programming in some way and causing it to recalculate and the output temp gets adjusted.”

This is the issue and no one can explain why this only happens on some jeeps and not others. It’s not “made this way” because not all of them do it.

I agree they need to release a flash to make however they designed it... consistent. And then maybe give out some literature to give logic to what the heck their intentions are of the design.

Yes thats fair but Im not sure that "not all jeeps do it"

Ive read these posts for months and the one thing that I am 100% certain of is that misinformation and misunderstanding is prevalent throughout ...

Some people like me set it on auto and forget it and are ok with things ... Now, mine did do some dumb stuff the other day when it was cold that I cant explain but I was in a hurry and didnt dig in ...

But since Jeep has released this thing, and lets be clear, it is finicky. AND to top it off, they do what they always do and when people come in to the dealer complaining they say "IT IS WORKING AS DESIGNED". But what they never say is "LET US EXPLAIN TO YOU HOW IT IS DESIGNED".

One statement is a very efficient way to piss people off and the other statement is a sure fire way to help the customer to understand AND make them (happier) at least ...

Either way, from what I've seen, people that use auto are generally happier ... People that try manual do not have a good experience ...

 

[danielspivey]

Yes thats fair but Im not sure that "not all jeeps do it"

Ive read these posts for months and the one thing that I am 100% certain of is that misinformation and misunderstanding is prevalent throughout ...

Some people like me set it on auto and forget it and are ok with things ... Now, mine did do some dumb stuff the other day when it was cold that I cant explain but I was in a hurry and didnt dig in ...

But since Jeep has released this thing, and lets be clear, it is finicky. AND to top it off, they do what they always do and when people come in to the dealer complaining they say "IT IS WORKING AS DESIGNED". But what they never say is "LET US EXPLAIN TO YOU HOW IT IS DESIGNED".

One statement is a very efficient way to piss people off and the other statement is a sure fire way to help the customer to understand AND make them (happier) at least ...

Either way, from what I've seen, people that use auto are generally happier ... People that try manual do not have a good experience ...

Fair, and let’s be real, having an auto hvac (no true manual mode) that adjusts cabin temperature based on what the temp it is outside is ridiculous on a vehicle that is MADE to have the windows down, doors off and top removed...

No wonder the auto system is confused! I just thought the Jeep engineers would have thought about it a little more, because they put so much thought and engineering into other parts of the gladiator\JL.

 

[Nitroexpress]

I didn't spend the time to read all 18 pages of this, but count me as somebody who thinks the HVAC isn't working as it should. If you have it in manual and set to 65 and it's blowing like a volcano, you bring the temp to "low" for 1 second, then bring it back to 65 and it's now blowing much cooler, it's not functioning properly. If it is functioning "as designed", then it a poor design that doesn't work like any other vehicle that I've ever witnessed.

- I believe in Manual Mode, that the HVAC should blow at the set temperature and fan speed.
- I believe that in Auto mode it should Blow whatever the system tells it will get to the set temperature, then adjust itself (temp and fan speed) accordingly.

Isn't that the difference in the two modes??

Additionally, I have experienced the outside air temp reading not adjusting to temperature changes. One morning, upon start it was 27 degrees and read that throughout several hours of driving until all of a sudden it went up to the proper OAT of 65. I'm not sure if the problems are related.

Something is not right. I'm also one that's not setting foot in a dealership until their is a known solution. I won't have my time wasted with anger and frustration. Instead of "we can't duplicate the problem" or "it's functioning as designed", I would certainly rather hear "Yes, its a problem and isn't working properly. Unfortunately, there is no solution available at this time"

 

[danielspivey]

I didn't spend the time to read all 18 pages of this, but count me as somebody who thinks the HVAC isn't working as it should. If you have it in manual and set to 65 and it's blowing like a volcano, you bring the temp to "low" for 1 second, then bring it back to 65 and it's now blowing much cooler, it's not functioning properly. If it is functioning "as designed", then it a poor design that doesn't work like any other vehicle that I've ever witnessed.

- I believe in Manual Mode, that the HVAC should blow at the set temperature and fan speed.
- I believe that in Auto mode it should Blow whatever the system tells it will get to the set temperature, then adjust itself (temp and fan speed) accordingly.

Isn't that the difference in the two modes??

Additionally, I have experienced the outside air temp reading not adjusting to temperature changes. One morning, upon start it was 27 degrees and read that throughout several hours of driving until all of a sudden it went up to the proper OAT of 65. I'm not sure if the problems are related.

Something is not right. I'm also one that's not setting foot in a dealership until their is a known solution. I won't have my time wasted with anger and frustration. Instead of "we can't duplicate the problem" or "it's functioning as designed", I would certainly rather hear "Yes, its a problem and isn't working properly. Unfortunately, there is no solution available at this time"

Exactly, maybe your phrasing makes it better for people to understand...

 

[MrZappo]

- I believe in Manual Mode, that the HVAC should blow at the set temperature and fan speed.
- I believe that in Auto mode it should Blow whatever the system tells it will get to the set temperature, then adjust itself (temp and fan speed) accordingly.

No. that is not how it works ... That is how we would all like it to work ... In manual mode it DOES NOT blow at the set temp ... It still tries to regulate the output air to reach the setpoint ...



"I didn't spend the time to read all 18 pages of this, but count me as somebody who thinks the HVAC isn't working as it should. If you have it in manual and set to 65 and it's blowing like a volcano, you bring the temp to "low" for 1 second, then bring it back to 65 and it's now blowing much cooler, it's not functioning properly. If it is functioning "as designed", then it a poor design that doesn't work like any other vehicle that I've ever witnessed."

As far as the above, that seems logical but it is likely something else going on ... The changing down and back up again likely resets some portion of the control logic ... It may (and likely is) poor control logic but it is definitely following it ...

If you want to delve into what may be happening, read up on "PID" loop logic ... Some part of that is likely at work here and is hard to diagnose or understand especially when it is doing something that seemingly does not make sense ...



The fact is that the vast majority of these systems are working as designed and as programmed ...

The other fact is that they are designed and programmed poorly and tend to irritate people with their seemingly random nature ...

It wont get better without a software fix ... Which could easily give you and everyone else what they want when in manual mode ...

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