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6 Speed Manual Regrets?

NachoRuby

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It's not shifting near as much. It is also an 8 speed and geared far better for the transmission.

Driving an auto vs. manual is like driving two different vehicles entirely.

Jeep really screwed up. The manual makes the engine seem lazy and laggy. It's not true at all. It's geared all wrong from the transmission gearing to the diff.

It would be perfect if they had tighter gearing both on and offroad.

I actually prefer driving a manual vs. an auto on every other car I've ever driven.

I traded in my JL for the JT within two weeks of test driving an auto Rubi.
Given that the top 2 gears are overdrive on both transmissions, the automatic must be downshifting to reach the same rpm band. 5+6 are overdrive, as you know, on the manual, with 7 and 8 being overdrive on the 8 speed. Fourth is 1:1 on the 6 speed, with 6 being 1:1 on the 8 speed. There are too many threads about the auto not holding 8th gear to believe that the auto isn't shifting often as well. Given the gear ratios for both, it simply has to be. They both need to go down 3 gears to achieve greater than a a 1:1 reduction.

Maybe the difference you feel is indeed the final drive between the Rubicon and the other trims. Regardless, I still don't have a problem with the need to shift. It's why I bought it. Sure, it needs a deep downshift to go up a steep incline. But I'm ok with that. 3rd tops out at a pretty high speed, so I don't have any problem using it. Off road, well I'm really only using 1 and 2, and maybe occasionally 3 anyway, so it doesn't matter there. On the highway, usually I'm in 5th until about 65mph, maybe a little more, depending on traffic, and I downshift to 4th for all but the steepest of inclines or when I need to pass quicker than 4th will allow, when I'll go to third. I do wonder how much of your experience is the difference between 3.45 and 4.1 final gearing, though. The ratios for the top 3 gears of both transmissions are too similar for the automatic to not be downshifting a few gears as well in similar circumstances.
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Cripton805

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Given that the top 2 gears are overdrive on both transmissions, the automatic must be downshifting to reach the same rpm band. 5+6 are overdrive, as you know, on the manual, with 7 and 8 being overdrive on the 8 speed. Fourth is 1:1 on the 6 speed, with 6 being 1:1 on the 8 speed. There are too many threads about the auto not holding 8th gear to believe that the auto isn't shifting often as well. Given the gear ratios for both, it simply has to be. They both need to go down 3 gears to achieve greater than a a 1:1 reduction.

Maybe the difference you feel is indeed the final drive between the Rubicon and the other trims. Regardless, I still don't have a problem with the need to shift. It's why I bought it. Sure, it needs a deep downshift to go up a steep incline. But I'm ok with that. 3rd tops out a pretty high speed, so I don't have any problem using it. Off road, well I'm really only using 1 and 2, and maybe occasionally 3 anyway, so it doesn't matter there. On the highway, usually I'm in 5th until about 65mph, maybe a little more, depending on traffic, and I downshift to 4th for all but the steepest of inclines or when I need to pass quicker than 4th will allow, when I'll go to third. I do wonder how much of your experience is the difference between 3.45 and 4.1 final gearing, though. The ratios for the top 3 gears of both transmissions are too similar for the automatic to not be downshifting a few gears as well in similar circumstances.
I don't really know what to tell you other than what I have known from owning both. I know 5 & 6 are overdrive gears. Regardless, even on 5th gear. It wouldn't hold speed on the highway on any slight grade. It would have to remain on 4th to drive comfortably on the highway. 65/70mph without entirely killing gas mileage. I would have to routinely downshift to 3rd to pass or go up a small hill. It still felt gutless compared to the auto and it's gearing. It feels far more responsive. With the manual, it was routine to go full throttle to stay up to speed and the downshift. Now with the auto, I can cruise and speeds hold steady. Without ever really needing to go full throttle. It just maintains speed better and requires less throttle input. The gearing is just setup wrong from the factory on the manual trans.

Drive the auto and manual back to back. The auto feels 1000x more responsive in any gear without revving to the moon.
 

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I test drove a Rubi 6-speed yesterday and as much as I like driving a manual, it just didn't feel right for me as the power seemed to be underwhelming compared to the auto.
 

seven30

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I don't really know what to tell you other than what I have known from owning both. I know 5 & 6 are overdrive gears. Regardless, even on 5th gear. It wouldn't hold speed on the highway on any slight grade. It would have to remain on 4th to drive comfortably on the highway. 65/70mph without entirely killing gas mileage. I would have to routinely downshift to 3rd to pass or go up a small hill. It still felt gutless compared to the auto and it's gearing. It feels far more responsive. With the manual, it was routine to go full throttle to stay up to speed and the downshift. Now with the auto, I can cruise and speeds hold steady. Without ever really needing to go full throttle. It just maintains speed better and requires less throttle input. The gearing is just setup wrong from the factory on the manual trans.

Drive the auto and manual back to back. The auto feels 1000x more responsive in any gear without revving to the moon.
You have to comfortable with using the engines full rpm range. Its designed to be used that way. The auto takes full advantage of that shifting 2-3 gears down instantly when needed.

When I took delivery of my manual mojave I was wondering if Id made a mistake. But with 6k miles its really come into its own now and is anything but gutless.

Shifts are easy and fast and the truck is plenty fast. They key for me was getting comfortable with an engine that has to rev over 4500 to put out real torque. On the hwy at 70 Ill go 6th to 4th to pass then back to 6th. The auto is no different. The engine will rev high to make power then quickly shift back up after the demand.

Real world I take the truck over Raton pass in Co a few times a year. About 9k feet I think. There is one place where I drop all the way to 3rd and several that need 4th (65mph) but normally its 5th/6th.

Maybe Ill get a "gopro" and make a video of that some time as it would probably be educational for all of us.
 

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I guess I just don't see the problem with downshifting to third. The automatic is downshifting and revving too. I started on high revving Hondas though, so maybe I'm just used to it. I love it.
Exactly. The auto downshifts all the time, and multiple gears. Nobody complains about that. I thought the whole point of the manual was to shift by yourself, anyway. Lol!
 

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Dreaded1

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I wanted a manual because Jeeps should be manuals. But the main reason I bought it, was for towing a camper we were buying. So I had to go with the auto, which I really don't mind.
 

DanW

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I don't really know what to tell you other than what I have known from owning both. I know 5 & 6 are overdrive gears. Regardless, even on 5th gear. It wouldn't hold speed on the highway on any slight grade. It would have to remain on 4th to drive comfortably on the highway. 65/70mph without entirely killing gas mileage. I would have to routinely downshift to 3rd to pass or go up a small hill. It still felt gutless compared to the auto and it's gearing. It feels far more responsive. With the manual, it was routine to go full throttle to stay up to speed and the downshift. Now with the auto, I can cruise and speeds hold steady. Without ever really needing to go full throttle. It just maintains speed better and requires less throttle input. The gearing is just setup wrong from the factory on the manual trans.

Drive the auto and manual back to back. The auto feels 1000x more responsive in any gear without revving to the moon.
I have driven the auto back to back several times. Not sure how you are feeling the manual is gutless unless you've got the Sport's axle ratios. My guess is that you are not aggressive enough with the manual. You have to go after it and stay in it to redline. 3500 to 6500 is where that 3.6 really shines. You can especially feel a kick in the pants at 4500 as the 2nd stage of the variable valve timing is triggered.

I do wish 6th was the only overdrive and that it had 5th gear's ratio. But it isn't a big deal, to me. Mine pulls 6th above 65mph just fine. If I ever go to 4.56 or 4.88 gears, 6th will come into its own. I'm just not sure I really need to do that.

My advice is to go with the auto if someone is not sure. If a true manual enthusiast, then get the manual. The auto is great. But absolutely boring, to me. I get MUCH more enjoyment from the manual. But again, that's just me.
 

NachoRuby

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You have to comfortable with using the engines full rpm range. Its designed to be used that way. The auto takes full advantage of that shifting 2-3 gears down instantly when needed.

When I took delivery of my manual mojave I was wondering if Id made a mistake. But with 6k miles its really come into its own now and is anything but gutless.

Shifts are easy and fast and the truck is plenty fast. They key for me was getting comfortable with an engine that has to rev over 4500 to put out real torque. On the hwy at 70 Ill go 6th to 4th to pass then back to 6th. The auto is no different. The engine will rev high to make power then quickly shift back up after the demand.
Precisely. It likes to be revved out. And it does so fantastically. It was odd downshifting a jeep so deeply at first. But I've gotten used to dropping gears. With peak torque at 4800 and peak hp at 6400, it needs to be revved high, on either transmission. We have a manual '18 compass, and it's similar on the 2.4l 4-cylinder though. It needs a couple of downshifts to get going up a steep hill. Mostly because that car is underpowered, though.
You eventually just learn your vehicle, and adapt. I've never owned an automatic vehicle, and I've definitely owned much worse manual vehicles than the Gladiator. I never felt that the transmission was misgeared. I'll admit, I'd like a stronger clutch,mostly just so towing could match the automatics, though. But then, I don't have 7000 lbs to tow anyway.

I've owned every thing from 4.0L jeeps, to old air-cooled VWs, to Subaru WRX STIs, to Challengers, all manual. My first car was a 5 speed civic that revved out to 7200. This transmission is fine. The gearing is fine. It's not for everyone though, that's why they make both transmissions.
 
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Jt-wrx

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ya the manual isn't for that guy, not sure what expectations were but i'm a year and half and 28,000 miles (45,000 kms) on my manual sport-s lifted on 37's with 4.88's and magnaflow street exhaust with speedawg shift knob and my smiles per mile couldn't be matched by anything else, it's quick, we surprise a lot of people on the road, i kept my build lightweight, i rarely rev it beyond 4k but it sure goes hard up top, in the world of mid size v6 engines the pentastar is as tractable and linear as they come, most competitor v6's have nothing down low and all power peaky up top

this coming from a previous truck ram/pentastar/8-spd and have nothing but good to say about that setup either, you really can't go wrong, the pentastart 8-spd is one of the best set up auto/motor combo's you'll find, did close to 150,000 kms on that, so i know both options very well also...if i could have chosen a manual in the ram i would have

i spent a lot of time driving 3/4 and 1 ton service truck manuals, mid 1980's trucks to mid 1990's trucks, so this manual is a slick sports car short shifter by comparison...i hope the trend for manuals comes back around in more vehicle choices, yup the auto's can do it better now, but they aren't for 'drivers' who like the experience, and who like to be engaged, and who like simplicity as well...

but there ya go, most reports here favor the manual with very few 'regrets', should give people a pretty good picture of whether or not the manual is for them or not...you cannot make a bad choice with the jeeps and transmissions, the auto is one of the best auto setups going in motor vehicles period
 

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It is of note that while the peak torque is up high, it is still a very flat curve with 90% of peak torque coming in at around 1500 rpm. So when you get up high, it isn't really the torque peak you are getting into but rather the part of the band where the horsepower really comes on.

A funny side note: A friend knew Nascar owner Junior Johnson. He told me that Junior once said horsepower is measured by hard you hit the wall. Torque is measured by how far you moved it! :LOL:

And there is nothing magical going on with the Pentastar. It boils down to gear ratios, no matter which transmission is attached. It puts out the same HP and Torque, either way. And it works exceptionally well with both transmissions, unless you are running the 3.2? gear ratio in a Sport with 35's or 37's. That'd be a dog, but that isn't the manual transmission's fault.

Like any engine with a manual, you have to learn what it likes. Once you figure it out, you can maximize it's performance.
 

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DanW

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ya the manual isn't for that guy, not sure what expectations were but i'm a year and half and 28,000 miles (45,000 kms) on my manual sport-s lifted on 37's with 4.88's and magnaflow street exhaust with speedawg shift knob and my smiles per mile couldn't be matched by anything else, it's quick, we surprise a lot of people on the road, i kept my build lightweight, i rarely rev it beyond 4k but it sure goes hard up top, in the world of mid size v6 engines the pentastar is as tractable and linear as they come, most competitor v6's have nothing down low and all power peaky up top

this coming from a previous truck ram/pentastar/8-spd and have nothing but good to say about that setup either, you really can't go wrong, the pentastart 8-spd is one of the best set up auto/motor combo's you'll find, did close to 150,000 kms on that, so i know both options very well also...if i could have chosen a manual in the ram i would have

i spent a lot of time driving 3/4 and 1 ton service truck manuals, mid 1980's trucks to mid 1990's trucks, so this manual is a slick sports car short shifter by comparison...i hope the trend for manuals comes back around in more vehicle choices, yup the auto's can do it better now, but they aren't for 'drivers' who like the experience, and who like to be engaged, and who like simplicity as well...

but there ya go, most reports here favor the manual with very few 'regrets', should give people a pretty good picture of whether or not the manual is for them or not...you cannot make a bad choice with the jeeps and transmissions, the auto is one of the best auto setups going in motor vehicles period
Quick question....If you were running 35's, would you go 4.56 or stick with the 4.88 rings/pinions?
 

Jt-wrx

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Quick question....If you were running 35's, would you go 4.56 or stick with the 4.88 rings/pinions?
flip a coin, i'd probably find the 4.88's a bit aggressive with manual transmission empty and spinning too many rpm on hwy in top gear at 75-80 mph...would like it for towing likely though, i have no reservation about being able to move down to 35's on my set up with the 4.88's

if you have the auto though...flip a coin, you have more spread to compensate
 

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There’s a lot of great feedback here already but I will offer mine. I test drove the MT Rubicon but ended up with an 8 spd auto Mojave. I would have gone either way but the Mojave I got had the things I wanted. After having the 8 spd auto I am so glad I ended up with it and wouldn’t change it. The drive in the Mojave with the 8 spd auto is so nice, what a great pairing! drives like a dream, I am so pleasantly surprised in how smooth it is.
 

be77solo

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So, as the crazy man I might sound like, would 4.56 or 4.88's on 32's be nuts with the manual? I know it would be hella fun! Seems this thread obviously attracted many MT owners, so curious if anyone has done it?

I'll of course probably upgrade to 35's when my tires wear out, but honestly, I really like the Willys BFG M/T's so in no hurry. I can't see myself going to 37's simply because I daily drive mostly for work, and not willing to compromise too much performance for looks or last bit of clearance. Hence why I'm loving these meaty looking 32's on my Willys with 1.75" spacers. Great off-road, works on muddy jobsites, livable on the highway, work with 3.73's, and look great.

I'm a gear guy believer, I put 4.10's in an S10 myself in my garage that had 3.43's and people thought I was crazy, but damn it drove so much better after. That was obviously longer ago than I care to admit.

I am cruising along the 485 loop around Charlotte in 4th gear most times at 75MPH+ just due to traffic and enjoying the punchiness, rarely hit 5th, hit 3rd to pass, and only hit 6th occasionally to make sure it's still there.....

The above isn't a knock against the manual, love it, I simply don't want the auto.

My question is, what RPM's would I be looking at? I'm not quite sure what gear I'm looking for, I just want more RPM's across the board now, and want to make sure it's fine for bigger tires later, but still fun with them.... I'm ok with aggressive, as I know when I get the next set of tires, truck will feel slower.
 

DanW

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flip a coin, i'd probably find the 4.88's a bit aggressive with manual transmission empty and spinning too many rpm on hwy in top gear at 75-80 mph...would like it for towing likely though, i have no reservation about being able to move down to 35's on my set up with the 4.88's

if you have the auto though...flip a coin, you have more spread to compensate
Yeah, 1st gear is the one I worry more about. 6th has a LOT of room to give, so I think 4.88 would make it much more usable. But 4.56 would improve it a good bit, too. What RPM are you hitting now at 75mph in 6th? I think I'm leaning toward 4.56 if I were to do it. 4.88's would give an incredible 100:1 crawl ratio in 1st and 4 low, LOL! That would be great for bar room bragging rights but completely unecessary in the real world. It does exceptionally well now with the 4.10 gearing.

Every now and then I toss around the idea of regearing but when I go drive it I kindof back off the idea because honestly, 6th and reverse are the only places I'd find it useful. 1st gear right now is short enough that it is a beast off the line and it has no trouble getting my boat up the ramp, either.
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