The Good, The Bad and The Ugly.

[Lives The Dream]

Gearing makes a big difference. All the manuals should come with a 4.1 final drive, not just Rubicons and Mojaves. I think they geared the transmission around the 4.1 final drive, and then decided later to use 3.73s. No issues in the forward gears with 4.1s, but reverse is still a little tall if backing up a steep hill in 2hi (no problems in low range).

I dunno, your 3.73 gets your gas mileage up with stock tires highway MPGs you can avg. 21-24, city 15-18, best of any wrangler/open body jeep I've ever driven.
The JT with 3.73s on paper has a lower crawl ratio (19.13) and reverse than even previous model Rubicons (4.46x4.11=18.33) discounting under drive reduction from the transfer case (reverse at 4.49 x3.73 = 16.75, previous Rubicon 4.06 x4.11= 16.68).

Why isn't there a place to put my left foot?

You could try the floor, but I personally like sticking my left foot out the window, I like the wind between my toes.

I'm constantly sliding forward off the seat

Do you have leather seats? I can't say I have ever slipped forward off the cloth seats. At any seat height.
Maybe you're sitting too far back from the wheel? It is telescopic. I dunno. But if you are stretching for the pedals that could make you slip forward, or if you have the seat tilted back, they call that submarining if you can slip forward under the seatbelt. The technical term in a car crash.

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[Se7en]

Can someone please please please tell me if there is anything I can do?

While I CAN'T tell you exactly what to do more than you already do, I CAN explain my experience. I've only had my Glad for all of 400 miles, however, the MPG is exactly what I experienced with my 2018 JL. Same Pentastar engine and, so far, same as I remember with the JL.

I feel like city vs hwy vs country backroads are all 3 different in regards to MPG. I'm getting about 17.5 on my daily commute which is 22 miles. 11 of those miles are backroads at 45-50 MPH and 11 miles are at highway speeds. Speed limit is 70 and I choose to drive at that speed, on purpose, to help with MPG. On the way home from work, though, it's all backroads at, again, 45-50. So, round trip...17.5 MPG. Exact same as the JL gave me. The JT may get better as it's nowhere near broken in, yet, but I have no expectations or hope that it will. If it does, it does.

When I bought the JT, I had to travel 3 hours away to get the one I wanted. This was 95% Interstate...at 75 MPH via I-40 through the Great Smokey Mountains in the Eastern US (i.e. - hilly). That trip home gave me 18.5. For reference, my Tacoma that I traded gave me .5 MPG better on the way to the dealership.

When I had the JL, I had to serve on Jury Duty for a week. This required me to go downtown each day, through all the usual city traffic one would expect. That week...14.5 MPG. I assume the JT would be very similar.

Sounds like each person will have some mix of all three...city, hwy, backroad...and your personal MPG could vary widely vs others and their experience as some could have a heavy dose of one or the other. Also, having a lead foot in this JT is not advisable if MPG is important, IMO. Not that you do, but just stating that in general.

 

[BigKillaTDogg]

While I CAN'T tell you exactly what to do more than you already do, I CAN explain my experience. I've only had my Glad for all of 400 miles, however, the MPG is exactly what I experienced with my 2018 JL. Same Pentastar engine and, so far, same as I remember with the JL.

I feel like city vs hwy vs country backroads are all 3 different in regards to MPG. I'm getting about 17.5 on my daily commute which is 22 miles. 11 of those miles are backroads at 45-50 MPH and 11 miles are at highway speeds. Speed limit is 70 and I choose to drive at that speed, on purpose, to help with MPG. On the way home from work, though, it's all backroads at, again, 45-50. So, round trip...17.5 MPG. Exact same as the JL gave me. The JT may get better as it's nowhere near broken in, yet, but I have no expectations or hope that it will. If it does, it does.

When I bought it, I had to travel 3 hours away to get the one I wanted. This was 95% Interstate...at 75 MPH via I-40 through the Great Smokey Mountains in the Eastern US (i.e. - hilly). That trip home gave me 18.5. For reference, my Tacoma that I traded gave me .5 MPG better on the way to the dealership.

When I had the JL, I had to serve on Jury Duty for a week. This required me to go downtown each day, through all the usual city traffic one would expect. That week...14.5 MPG. I assume the JT would be very similar.

Sounds like each person will have some mix of all three...city, hwy, backroad...and your personal MPG could vary widely vs others and their experience as some could have a heavy dose of one or the other. Also, having a lead foot in this JT is not advisable if MPG is important, IMO. Not that you do, but just stating that in general.

Thank you for this. Those seem to be the same numbers I've been getting. I've noticed between 40-70 mph it gets much better mpg. I'm in Salt Lake City and everyone goes 80 mph on the freeways. In the city it's stop and go. So I think I'm just missing those best mpg ranges. Every once in a while I'll be driving 40ish and hitting every green light and the mpg meter is around 18mpg but of course that doesn't last long.
What size tires did you have on your JL and your new JT? I have a stock rubi so I have 33” I really want bigger tires for rock crawling but it's also my daily driver so I need a good mix of fuel efficiency (yeah right) and off-road capability. I also have a small Airstream trailer 2k lbs that I will pull sometimes. I guess I just shouldn't worry about the mpg but when I hear people getting 20 mpg and I'm getting 14 mpg it concerns me. It makes me think I can change something and get better mpg. Or something might be wrong with my truck that I should get fixed. So if I can get better mpg then I’ll do it. I know with the rubicon it comes with larger tires and 4.10 gears I'm not sure how much that has to do with it. I've heard after market air filters help but I've also heard that's BS. So I don't know.

 

[NachoRuby]

I use 88 octane gas, drive like a grandma, I do drive mostly city miles, my engine has 5500 miles on it. I don't have a ton of weight or anything like that, it's just stock.

Is your 88 octane gas e15? It is here. I don't know if that's universal. 87 is e10 here, and 88 is e15.

 

[BigKillaTDogg]

Is your 88 octane gas e15? It is here. I don't know if that's universal. 87 is e10 here, and 88 is e15.

I don't know, I think they are universal but honestly I don't know what those mean. I just know I can't use 85. I'm in Salt Lake City, UT and every gas station has 85 and 87 or 88 and 93

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I've got the back of the seat as low as it will go. Believe me, I'm doing everything I can to make it lower. I'm 6 feet even, so I can't imagine how someone who's actually tall drives this thing.

My son is about 6'2 or 6'3 and has no trouble withe Jeeps. But height is not the factor - inseam and torso height are. I've seen tall guys with short legs and tall guys with stilts for legs and short torsos.

You misread my post in a couple of instances. 1 and 5

1) I said VARIABLE intermittent. I know it has intermittent wipers. But not VARIABLE.

2) Yes. I just installed some this week. But still loud.

3) yes. But 14 mpg is still lower than 90%of the people here with stock trucks. have reported.

5) I understand that. In fact I mentioned that. Reread it. U connect works great from far away. And I said how I loved the fob based remote start because its so convenient.

I've had only 2 or 3 vehicles with "Variable" intermittent wipers - all were based on Ford systems. AMC moved to Motorcraft wipers in 1973 so by the time Ford had intermittent wipers, so did AMC - the Eagles and so on.
Was nice but still because of variables like temperature, varying friction on the glass (rain vs. little rain, etc.) and voltage changes, you were still constantly tweaking them. The problem with "rain" here is that you have them set perfect for 30 seconds and then the size of the droplets changes and the density of the precip changes, so you tweak them up a tiny bit - then 40 seconds later you slow things down again because now you have driven out of that cloud and the mist lightens up, then suddenly it's actually raining - then that's over and it's back to a heavy mist. There's simply no, none, zero, systems that work perfectly in our precip because it keeps changing every few seconds. So in short, I've found no one makes perfect wipers - and variable doesn't mean squat here - you still keep tweaking it, notches or no notches.

MPG - you chose a vehicle more likely to get worse mpg than many Gladiators.
MPG generally increases with miles - get up to 7,000+ and then compare. Don't bother comparing anything with less than 3 or 4,000 miles. But still - you chose a truck that gets less than other versions, and in most cases, drivers make the difference when all else is the same. You also got your truck in the dead of winter, cold temps.
I found mine can drop as much as 2 mpg when winter sets in. Odd because my 4.0 thrives in temps about 40-45 while the 3.6 doesn't seem to care for it. I can feel the better power in the 4.0 and mpg doesn't drop until it gets below 40, the 3.6 has already dropped mpg before that level.
I'm doing 17s now, I was doing 20+
Besides the cold air going into the engine - the winter air is more dense, so it's physics. A double-whammy in the winter. Stronger wind resistance/more drag, and engine temps..............

My sales guy told me right up front before I ever left the lot for a test drive "these are noisy, you are used to your quiet Silverado with insulated cab. This will be very noisy inside and much worse if there's any wind at all". His sales tactics sucked but the man was 100% honest about the truck itself. Everything he told me about Jeeps and these JTs in general was spot-on accurate.

 

[NachoRuby]

I don't know, I think they are universal but honestly I don't know what those mean. I just know I can't use 85. I'm in Salt Lake City, UT and every gas station has 85 and 87 or 88 and 93

Ok. You're at elevation, and you guys get different gasoline than the rest of us. They don't sell 85 outside the mountains.
If 88 is e15 where you are vs e10, that will yield lower mpg. You're right, don't use 85 octane, though, there's a long clause that says don't use anything below 87 in the manual. Of course, your elevation hurts the MPGs too, though.

 

[BigKillaTDogg]

Ok. You're at elevation, and you guys get different gasoline than the rest of us. They don't sell 85 outside the mountains.
If 88 is e15 where you are vs e10, that will yield lower mpg. You're right, don't use 85 octane, though, there's a long clause that says don't use anything below 87 in the manual. Of course, your elevation hurts the MPGs too, though.

So I should look for 87 e10? That might help? Or if there is such a thing as 88 e10 go with that. ? I’m sure it's super scientific as to why but can you explain what e10 and e15 mean in layman's terms?

 

[NachoRuby]

So I should look for 87 e10? That might help? Or if there is such a thing as 88 e10 go with that. ? I’m sure it's super scientific as to why but can you explain what e10 and e15 mean in layman's terms?

The E number is the ethanol percentage. up to 10% or up to 15%. Around here, e15 88 octane is cheaper though. Much cheaper. So I run it sometimes even though it gets lower mpg, because it's so much cheaper that it still saves me money. Your mountain fuel is different than mine, but 88 is always e15 here. Don't run e85 (flex fuel) or 85/86 octane though!

Normally, you'll want to run 87 octane or higher. 88 is "safe", it just worse for mpg, if it's e15.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Is your 88 octane gas e15? It is here. I don't know if that's universal. 87 is e10 here, and 88 is e15.

You can't find E15 (88) in too many places around here - but the numbers are growing due to better profit margin and government incentives. ISU has proven that if you can run E10 you can run E15 and the difference in mpg is pretty much nil. They've studied it for years - going back at least 10 years.
88 is E15 - sometimes called "unleaded 88". It's been tested with and approved only for 2001 and later vehicles, don't use it in lawn and garden equipment as it's not been well tested and has no history there.

If 88 is e15 where you are vs e10, that will yield lower mpg.

No, it really doesn't. There's been years worth of studies and university studies have shown it's only about a 2% drop compared to regular gas -
Studies by Oak Ridge National Laboratory have shown that with all other things being equal, ethanol’s impact on fuel economy would be equal to the loss of energy density. This translates into a loss of less than 2% for Unleaded 88 when compared to regular gasoline. For a vehicle getting 30 mpg this would equate to a drop to around 29.4 mpg, or about the loss of miles to the gallon when vehicle tires are improperly inflated.
In many places, E15 is about 15 cents cheaper meaning you come out at least the same financially while gaining that 1 octane.

 

[Se7en]

What size tires did you have on your JL and your new JT?

JL was a stock Rubi. JT is a stock Mojave. Both with 33's, although the Glad has stock mud terrains.

 

[NachoRuby]

You can't find E15 (88) in too many places around here - but the numbers are growing due to better profit margin and government incentives. ISU has proven that if you can run E10 you can run E15 and the difference in mpg is pretty much nil. They've studied it for years - going back at least 10 years.
88 is E15 - sometimes called "unleaded 88". It's been tested with and approved only for 2001 and later vehicles, don't use it in lawn and garden equipment as it's not been well tested and has no history there.



No, it really doesn't. There's been years worth of studies and university studies have shown it's only about a 2% drop compared to regular gas -
Studies by Oak Ridge National Laboratory have shown that with all other things being equal, ethanol’s impact on fuel economy would be equal to the loss of energy density. This translates into a loss of less than 2% for Unleaded 88 when compared to regular gasoline. For a vehicle getting 30 mpg this would equate to a drop to around 29.4 mpg, or about the loss of miles to the gallon when vehicle tires are improperly inflated.
In many places, E15 is about 15 cents cheaper meaning you come out at least the same financially while gaining that 1 octane.

E15 and e85 are readily available here. Anecdotally, I've noticed no real loss of mpg with e15. I just wasn't sure if there were studies to show so. Your studies match my real life.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

So I should look for 87 e10? That might help? Or if there is such a thing as 88 e10 go with that. ? I’m sure it's super scientific as to why but can you explain what e10 and e15 mean in layman's terms?

You won't lose money going to E15 with IS 88 octane.
The drop in mpg is only about 2% compared to gasoline - it's the same as the energy density differences, according to some university and lab studies.
In short, the lower cost makes up for the small drop in mpg so you don't lose money, but you do gain that 1 octane.

You'll find numbers all over the place depending on who does the testing, how they do the testing, the specific vehicle they test with and other factors.
Here's what I've found with my Jeep - no difference unless I change octane to something high like 93 octane. As far as straight gas vs E10 (87) vs E15 (Unleaded 88) - I haven't seen any appreciable changes in mpg! I have to move from 87 to 93 to see much change - but also keep in mind you can't go by ONE TANK! It will not work that way because of the long term fuel trim. You can't say "I used E10 (87 octane) and then used xxx for a tank and saw yyy difference" because it takes more than one single tank in these to see the real differences. And I've done that sort of testing over the past year - funny thing, I saw no difference in ethanol vs non-ethanol. And the only power difference I saw was with 93 likely because after a couple of tanks of 93 it decided it could change things up a bit for timing and such. (not because there's more power in 93, there is NOT)

 

[ShadowsPapa]

E15 and e85 are readily available here. Anecdotally, I've noticed no real loss of mpg with e15. I just wasn't sure if there were studies to show so. Your studies match my real life.

I wanted to be sure I wasn't totally full of crap - so I had a private conversation with Dave on what I thought I was observing - because we all know even humidity and air temperature can impact mpg and power. I only noticed a difference in things when I ran more than 1 tank of 93 through my truck. The exhaust note was slightly different, the under-hood sounds (air intake, etc.) were slightly different and it just "felt better" (impossible to really describe).
But when I found a station with E88 here and thought, what the heck, let's see what happens and filled there a couple of times and kept close track with the FillUp app, I saw no difference in mpg and didn't seem to change a thing in MY truck.

Observers should keep in mind, my truck has been very well-behaved engine-wise. No rattle, no ping, no misfires, ever smooth, even idle, great little engine. Even though it's the same engine anyone else with a 2020 3.6 should have, it's my truck, with my driving history and my fuel history in the "system".

When I see an outfit say "we tested with a 2011 VW whatever and ran two tanks through, one with xx fuel and the second with yy fuel"
.......I laugh - really? two tanks? heck, your mpg can vary 2 or more mpg just because of climate factors and traffic conditions, driver mood, whatever. Two tanks, one of each? That's not a scientific test to compare.

 

[JeepNNJ]

I'm only ~200 miles into my Gladiator, but im loving everything about it! The moment i sat in the front seat, i knew this was going to be my next Jeep. I haven't had a Jeep/truck since my '97 TJ so i do not know if this is common now, but i was impressed that all the bolts underneath are galvanized. It's the little things in life!

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