Leaking axle seal?

[flipmode]

What is the possibility that a defect in the shaft assembly did that to the housing? Did they take pictures of the original shaft assembly after removal?

No, I will request to see it when they make the next repair.

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[570gladiator]

So my 2021 Willy’s with 18,890 miles failed it’s annual inspection. Rear shocks are blown and rear axle is leaking on passenger side getting oil on brakes. They will fix under warranty but seems a recall issue may be coming. Mine has been off road and hauled stuff, but never exceeded the GVWR or did anything I didn’t do with my Silverado that I never had issues with for 125k miles.

 

[glassjawkid32]

So my 2021 Willy’s with 18,890 miles failed it’s annual inspection. Rear shocks are blown and rear axle is leaking on passenger side getting oil on brakes. They will fix under warranty but seems a recall issue may be coming. Mine has been off road and hauled stuff, but never exceeded the GVWR or did anything I didn’t do with my Silverado that I never had issues with for 125k miles.

Would this be considered a recall? Recalls have to be safety related I thought?

 

[punk'n]

Would this be considered a recall? Recalls have to be safety related I thought?

If they leak onto the wheel which slings it onto the brakes, its a safety issue.

I do not remember if it was mentioned (throughout this 1300 post thread) but each failure should have been reported to NHTSA as safety issue. NHTSA could/should have forced Jeep to address this better.

 

[glassjawkid32]

If they leak onto the wheel which slings it onto the brakes, its a safety issue.

I do not remember if it was mentioned (throughout this 1300 post thread) but each failure should have been reported to NHTSA as safety issue. NHTSA could/should have forced Jeep to address this better.

Fair enough, my thought was the have been letting us all drive while parts come in deeming it safe to do so. I doubt any manufacturer would go out of their way to put out a recall but that is a good case for one.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Would this be considered a recall? Recalls have to be safety related I thought?

There won't be any recall.
There's no safety risk, they'll fix it under warranty, and the numbers aren't that high. It's a range of a few months. No 2020s has been reported and it doesn't look like the early 21s have the issue.
There wasn't a recall on the steering gear and this is smaller in number, less involvement with any safety.
The lube on the brakes hasn't been consistently bad. ABS would most likely mitigate braking issues. In fact, I'd bet on it. A little lube is sticky, more likely to lock a wheel in which case ABS would release that brake. A lot of lube is slippery on brakes, you'd lose some braking on that one, but again, ABS would compensate. The worst case I can see is some increased braking distance in extreme conditions where it's really wet on the brakes.
Frankly, I've worked on a lot of vehicles without ABS that had leaking seals at least this bad, sometimes worse, and braking wasn't the customer's complaint. (and in my case, ABS wasn't functional due to controller issues yet my right rear brakes were wet with hypoid lube and I never noticed until I saw the leak)
ABS would compensate. It's no worse than driving on a dirt road, snow, ice, or sand in the spring before the rains wash it off. Like I said - the lube amounts I have seen will make those brakes sticky, not slippery. ABS will prevent that wheel from locking by releasing the braking pressure.
I've had too much personal experience working with leaky axle seals and doing brakes to be concerned.

 

[Jorgeperezjr]

Went to install lockers on my Willys and found the leak in the rear axle on both sides bad enough to mix with the brake system. 10-10-20 build at 13k. Seems like the race was spinning independent of the bearing within the axle assembly. Stopped any other work and taking it into a local dealer

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Went to install lockers on my Willys and found the leak in the rear axle on both sides bad enough to mix with the brake system. 10-10-20 build at 13k. Seems like the race was spinning independent of the bearing within the axle assembly. Stopped any other work and taking it into a local dealer

The cup, or race, will not fit tight in the axle tube. It won't be "loose", but can turn. When the whole thing is put together, the cup is held in place by the pressure put on it by the seal which is pressed against the cup/race by the retainer.
It's made that way so the whole thing just slides in, and is "clamped" in place and prevented from turning in the tube by the force applied by the retainer.
When the retainer nuts are taken off and the axle slid out, you can slide the race or cup out of the housing. Sometimes you have to work it evenly because it is a close fit but they are not driven in. It's not a press fit.

It will go in and can be turned, but not be loose in the hole.

 

[Jorgeperezjr]

https://www.vzmessages.com/vl/e50e280637762f763be46786c549f94d98ff7dff

video of race. Seems more loose than should be? Does it seem normal per your experience?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

https://www.vzmessages.com/vl/e50e280637762f763be46786c549f94d98ff7dff

video of race. Seems more loose than should be? Does it seem normal per your experience?

If I'm seeing it correctly, that one looks pretty loose. They should take some effort in that they need to be perfectly lined up and square with the tube to go in. They'll slide in or out a long as the pressure or pull is even, but that just appeared loose.
Also it looked like it had been turning in the axle tube. Once in, they should not turn due to the pressure of the seal and retainer against them.

In short, that one just looked too loose and I don't like what appears to be a wear pattern on the outside of that race. If it's turning in there, it's going to wear the tube, and it means there's nothing pushing against it to hold it in place. Makes me wonder if that's also leading to the leak as the axle can move vertically - too much play.

 

[Jorgeperezjr]

There are signs the race was spinning itself within that housing ID.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

There are signs the race was spinning itself within that housing ID.

I thought I saw a wear pattern or "shiny spot" on the outside of that race in the video.

 

[Jorgeperezjr]

from this still shot

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I have a possible theory in your case - perhaps others.
It's not just the diameter of the tube where it is machined for that bearing race to fit into, it's the depth. If it was machined in too far, then when the axle assembly with bearing, seal, spacer ring, and retainer are installed, they will not be "squeezing" against that race to keep it from spinning. What holds it from sliding out and in, or turning inside the tube is the force of the bearing lip (and note - these are special tapered roller bearings with a ledge on them) - bearing lip or ledge presses on race, seal goes in, and is pressed against the bearing pushing it against the race. It's all clamped in place to keep things from moving when that retainer is bolted in place.
If that is machined too deep, the race goes in too far, and when the retainer is bolted in place, it's not pushing the seal hard against the bearing which in turn is not clamping the race in place. If things can move, you have play in the axle and it can cause leaks.
I would bet that if that was all put together, you could get some axle play.
That machined area size - diameter and depth - is critical. If it's too deep, the race goes in too far.
I'll look in my books and see if I can find any drawings. The closest I can find is Mercedes and it's a very similar setup but they use felt pads and o-rings to even seal the retainer and keep dust from getting in from the outside! Now why doesn't Jeep do that?

 

[Maximus Gladius]

I have a possible theory in your case - perhaps others.
It's not just the diameter of the tube where it is machined for that bearing race to fit into, it's the depth. If it was machined in too far, then when the axle assembly with bearing, seal, spacer ring, and retainer are installed, they will not be "squeezing" against that race to keep it from spinning. What holds it from sliding out and in, or turning inside the tube is the force of the bearing lip (and note - these are special tapered roller bearings with a ledge on them) - bearing lip or ledge presses on race, seal goes in, and is pressed against the bearing pushing it against the race. It's all clamped in place to keep things from moving when that retainer is bolted in place.
If that is machined too deep, the race goes in too far, and when the retainer is bolted in place, it's not pushing the seal hard against the bearing which in turn is not clamping the race in place. If things can move, you have play in the axle and it can cause leaks.
I would bet that if that was all put together, you could get some axle play.
That machined area size - diameter and depth - is critical. If it's too deep, the race goes in too far.
I'll look in my books and see if I can find any drawings. The closest I can find is Mercedes and it's a very similar setup but they use felt pads and o-rings to even seal the retainer and keep dust from getting in from the outside! Now why doesn't Jeep do that?

But if they’ve machined them all this way, shouldn’t they all leak?

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