Former Sport owner: Differences between Mojave and Sport manual

[LostWoods]

By your logic: what does XR add that can't be added relatively easily?

Rubicon is not a direct equivalent to sasquatch, that is correct, but trust me spend enough time on 6g and you'll see people aren't paying 5800 to get a wheel and tire package, they're doing it to grab a factory lift and lockers.

As for your "pales in comparison" statement, the sasquatch package is .85 inches of extra ground clearance over Rubicon, but lacks SBD that a Rubicon has. What else does it have that outshines a non-XR Rubicon so brightly?

And the idea of "shopping for a sasquatch" should be examined again, because I know plenty of people who gave up on sasquatched manual black diamonds when the manual sasquatch pricing came out because a non-sasquatched badlands (base Rubicon equivalent) was cheaper. What does a badlands have? 33s, SBD, front and rear lockers, slight lift, fancier suspension, higher final drive ratio. You know... all that stuff that can in your words "be added easily"

Gearing capable of running 37" tires comfortably. The one thing I don't see on the Bronco boards I do see here is that people aren't instantly looking to regear as soon as they go with larger rubber. It's probably availability too but the reality is that it's a much better starting point where the average person isn't going to need to do it.

If you want to compare apples to apples it's gotta be XR to Sasquatch. Both have 35" tires, lockers, better gearing, better transfer case, and a light lift. You're right that almost any of it can be added easily (it's only money and a warranty) but that's not the point, you're trying to compare comparable trims and that is where it has to be.

My comment on the Rubicon vs Sport was referring to the fact that by buying the Max Tow, you are saving several thousand in many cases and that chunk of cash easily covers what the Rubicon offers from a utility standpoint other than the transfer case. The biggest flaw of the Rubicon is that it still uses the same formula from 20 years ago and 4.10 just isn't enough anymore. You'll need to re-gear it anyway so the difference between re-gearing a max tow and adding lockers and re-gearing a Rubicon is the cost of the locker units. You aren't going to get the same thing by passing on the XR upgrade or Sasquatch package then trying to add those things aftermarket.

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[NachoRuby]

Gearing capable of running 37" tires comfortably. The one thing I don't see on the Bronco boards I do see here is that people aren't instantly looking to regear as soon as they go with larger rubber.

In this respect, I'm sure the turbocharged engine doesn't hurt either. Like how most of the diesel guys on our platform aren't talking about re-gearing. They don't need to. They've got the torque.

 

[LostWoods]

In this respect, I'm sure the turbocharged engine doesn't hurt either. Like how most of the diesel guys on our platform aren't talking about re-gearing. They don't need to. They've got the torque.

Also true. Hopefully the JL/JT sees some variant of the Hurricane engine and maybe it won't be such an issue.

 

[dcmdon]

Out of curiosity, what luxury items can I get on an overland that I can't get on a loaded Sport S? I did the build on Jeep site, and I don't see a difference other than some cosmetics and wheel selection. Functional things, all selectable on Sport S.

Off the top of my head:

1) Leather (which includes leather seats, dash, center arm rest, door panels, plus a fold down center arm rest in the rear seat with 2 more cup holders. )
2) Body colored hard top
3) Auto climate control

The other thing is that once you add everything to a Sport S, there is not a whole heck of a lot of difference between it and an overland or Mojave.

The value proposition for the Sport S is as a blank canvas for someone who is NOT looking for the "fancy" stuff and wants to build a good off roader.

Take a Sport S with max tow, order it with a limited slip, Put some 35x11.5 on stock wheels with a 2" lift and you have a great budget off roader.

 

[Marlinvx]

Off the top of my head:

1) Leather (which includes leather seats, dash, center arm rest, door panels, plus a fold down center arm rest in the rear seat with 2 more cup holders. )
2) Body colored hard top
3) Auto climate control

The other thing is that once you add everything to a Sport S, there is not a whole heck of a lot of difference between it and an overland or Mojave.

The value proposition for the Sport S is as a blank canvas for someone who is NOT looking for the "fancy" stuff and wants to build a good off roader.

Take a Sport S with max tow, order it with a limited slip, Put some 35x11.5 on stock wheels with a 2" lift and you have a great budget off roader.

Thanks for the clarification, rear seat arm rest is the only functional difference I see. My sport s had auto climate control. I presume the one I have on order will as well. (Ordered with every option except leather, I have wet okole seat covers since I run doorless from Easter to halloween)

 

[NachoRuby]

Thanks for the clarification, rear seat arm rest is the only functional difference I see. My sport s had auto climate control. I presume the one I have on order will as well. (Ordered with every option except leather, I have wet okole seat covers since I run doorless from Easter to halloween)

If you got the tech package or 8.4 inch display, it will have the dual zone climate control. But by adding the 8.4" display, you're already within $2000 of a Rubicon, since the 8.4 makes you pick the tech package or popular equipment package. So for me, might as well get the Rubicon or Mojave, which already has that included in the price, with some other stuff too.

Since you ordered with every option except leather, then your sport most certainly cost more than my Rubicon, so for my situation, the Rubicon was a better value. Yours is obviously different. I have no interest in most of the luxury packages, and the base Rubicon already has a lot of that stuff.

I don't intend to change everything out on my Rubicon, though. If I did, I'd get a sport. I don't have the time or skill to swap everything onto a Sport, so I'd spend way more than just buying a base Rubicon, like I did.

 

[dcmdon]

If you got the tech package or 8.4 inch display, it will have the dual zone climate control. But by adding the 8.4" display, you're already within $2000 of a Rubicon, since the 8.4 makes you pick the tech package or popular equipment package. So for me, might as well get the Rubicon or Mojave, which already has that included in the price, with some other stuff too.

Since you ordered with every option except leather, then your sport most certainly cost more than my Rubicon, so for my situation, the Rubicon was a better value. Yours is obviously different. I have no interest in most of the luxury packages, and the base Rubicon already has a lot of that stuff.

I don't intend to change everything out on my Rubicon, though. If I did, I'd get a sport. I don't have the time or skill to swap everything onto a Sport, so I'd spend way more than just buying a base Rubicon, like I did.

Yup. When I loaded up a sport with everything I wanted and compared it with an Overland on the configurator, there was essentially zero difference.

Withe the Mojave it was $2500.

Overland gave me no extra mechanical bits. Mojave gave me all the stuff you already know.

Then there is resale. A sport optioned up to an Overland with everything except for leather is still a Sport.

 

[Rahkmalla]

Yup. When I loaded up a sport with everything I wanted and compared it with an Overland on the configurator, there was essentially zero difference.

Withe the Mojave it was $2500.

Overland gave me no extra mechanical bits. Mojave gave me all the stuff you already know.

Then there is resale. A sport optioned up to an Overland with everything except for leather is still a Sport.

It's the same issue with a loaded willys, which shouldn't be much of a surprise as it's just another trim of sport.

$2355 difference between a willys with 8.4 and a rubi/jave. Granted willys has remote start as std while the rubi and jave do not, but for people who want manual or cold weather anyway, that's meaningless, and for people who dont want either but do want remote start, it jsut changes the math from $2355 to $2850. There's a TON of stuff in a rubi or jave that justifies another $2355 over a willys.

 

[The Duck of Earl]

I went through these mental gymnastics a bit ago. See the first post in my previous thread for a more in depth comparison and numbers (just ignore the comments by those who completely hi-jacked the thread to try and make it solely about towing and payload numbers...)

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/...-package-not-the-value-you-would-think.56388/

For me, we are really at about a $5,000 difference for fully loaded up hard tops (and no leather) between the Rubi/Mojave and the Sport S Max Tow. (Sometime even a little more if chosing the previously available Altitude Trim, and presumably now, with the re-released Freedom Trim).

I agree with other threads and observations that Jeep appears to let the Max Tow package exist as a bit of a step child and more of something that exists just so they can brag about class competitive specs - they would rather you just buy the Rubi/Mojave. Unfortunate, as I have no need or desire for lockers (quite frankly greatly prefer an LSD for my purposes), and think there really is a sizable enough niche out there for what the Max Tow otherwise offers (upgraded wider axles, shorter gears, shocks, LSD), with a bit more stock interior optioning (like the Rubi/Mojave come with), and add on the Rubi Hood and fenders plus some larger all-terrain tires - think of what the Moab trim on the Wrangler used to be.

Name it something fancy, like Teton/Cascade/Wasatch, and then that $3 - $6k difference makes a bit more sense and would help out with the potential re-sale conundrum.

 

[ajkaz]

Big caveat here: if you intend to stay near stock tire size. 4.56 is absolutely needed if you want to step up to 33s or 35s and drive anywhere mountainous or at altitude. Shorter gearing isn't just about getting into higher gears or off the line, it's about multiplying torque and reducing engine load.

I towed just around 5k through Payson, AZ down into Phoenix and while it was manageable, some of those grades made my truck work far more than I wanted it to just to maintain even 45. I could not imagine doing the same in Colorado or anywhere with real altitude on top of that.

4.56 is definitely over geared for 33's. You wouldn't want that when now towing which is likely far more of your driving than towing. I used to tow my Razr and 2 heavy quads up that route and back with my Nissan Frontier. It did it, but you had to work the engine. 3.6 is the same, it needs to be up in the RPM's where it makes power to pull up those hills. Feels a bit odd at first, but its how it was designed to run, power & torque at higher rpm.

 

[Bbannongmu]

Basequatch is only 3.3k cheaper than a 2dr Rubicon and is missing a decent amount of stuff the Rubicon has, and that's assuming you can get one (had 2dr Base manual sasquatch on reservation for a long time)

Yeah. If you find a Bronco like this expect a $20k markup too.

 

[Bbannongmu]

I drove a manual Sport S for 18 months and am now driving a Mojave. I like driving, which is why I'm a manual Gladiator owner. I thought people like me might want a head's up before ordering.

I bought the Mojave after deciding to move to lower gears. After pricing regearing and noticing that the Mojave already has 4.10s, I checked and high used prices and Gupton made the delta between my old Sport and a new Mojave only $12k with many add-ons including lane change warning and heated seats/steering wheel. The choice seemed easy.

I knew the Mojave would have a softer suspension with more travel, but I didn't realize how much difference this would make when driving. The car rides much better in that it is softer, but it isn't as sporty as the Sport. The biggest difference to me was the turn-in (how easily the car changes direction when you want to turn quickly). The Mojave takes a moment to roll and settle while the stiffer suspension on the Sport makes the car more engaging to drive. I frankly miss the Sport suspension on anything other than freeway or bumpy roads where the softer Mojave shines. For other manual Gladiator drivers who aren't going off-road, I'd recommend getting the Sport S and optioning up if you enjoy driving and aren't going off pavement and fire roads much.

A stiffer suspension also helps with towing, while the slightly lower gearing favors the Mojave. My sense is that the perfect towing Gladiator is a Maxtow Sport regeared to 4.56.

I can't wait to take the Mojave to Big Bend. The Sport was hopelessly stiff on high-speed offroad adventures. I'm sure the Mojave's going to be in its element there.

Thanks for sharing #savethestick

 

[ajkaz]

Stock Mojave shocks are absolute trash compared to properly valved Fox 2.5s. I wonder if they're just as serviceable because I'd bet Accutune or Filthy could get them riding tighter on the street and still be more complaint in the dirt. Especially if you tune the air bumps with them.

Yes they are rebuildable, Mopar has a recommended max service life of 50K miles before rebuild. I'm sure you could get them performing better than the 2.5's with custom tuning as they are IBP where the 2.5 is not.

 

[N8Marsh]

I drove a manual Sport S for 18 months and am now driving a Mojave. I like driving, which is why I'm a manual Gladiator owner. I thought people like me might want a head's up before ordering.

I bought the Mojave after deciding to move to lower gears. After pricing regearing and noticing that the Mojave already has 4.10s, I checked and high used prices and Gupton made the delta between my old Sport and a new Mojave only $12k with many add-ons including lane change warning and heated seats/steering wheel. The choice seemed easy.

I knew the Mojave would have a softer suspension with more travel, but I didn't realize how much difference this would make when driving. The car rides much better in that it is softer, but it isn't as sporty as the Sport. The biggest difference to me was the turn-in (how easily the car changes direction when you want to turn quickly). The Mojave takes a moment to roll and settle while the stiffer suspension on the Sport makes the car more engaging to drive. I frankly miss the Sport suspension on anything other than freeway or bumpy roads where the softer Mojave shines. For other manual Gladiator drivers who aren't going off-road, I'd recommend getting the Sport S and optioning up if you enjoy driving and aren't going off pavement and fire roads much.

A stiffer suspension also helps with towing, while the slightly lower gearing favors the Mojave. My sense is that the perfect towing Gladiator is a Maxtow Sport regeared to 4.56.

I can't wait to take the Mojave to Big Bend. The Sport was hopelessly stiff on high-speed offroad adventures. I'm sure the Mojave's going to be in its element there.

I'm curious as how the engine and transmission feel with Sport vs Mojave gearing.

Manual is a must-have for me so I'm curious - do the 4.10s of the Mojave make a difference in day-to-day drivability vs the Sport gearing?

 

[veblenesque]

It does make a difference, although it isn’t dramatic. The gearing feels better suited to the Pentastar, which is a peakier motor not well suited to get ultra-tall gearing in the Sport.

Honestly, it just feels more natural. Like you’re not fighting to wind it out enough so that it doesn’t lug in the next gear.

Drove it to the airport this morning for an early morning flight and really appreciated the softer ride and easier shifting.

BTW - I’m a former Tundra owner who missed a manual. The Tundra was a much better truck but I’d never go back.

I'm curious as how the engine and transmission feel with Sport vs Mojave gearing.

Manual is a must-have for me so I'm curious - do the 4.10s of the Mojave make a difference in day-to-day drivability vs the Sport gearing?

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