2022 gladiator death wobble

[ShadowsPapa]

I knew I'd seen it somewhere.

Not to further muddy the water, but I knew I'd seen it somewhere.
Steer Smarts calls for 1/2 degree toe out in the instructions that come with their alignment plates. ?

Wow, no way for me when the tendency is already to push the tires outward and the bigger the tire, the more push. (depending on scrub radius and where the angles intersect - which varies with wheels and tires)

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[Lunentucker]

Wow, no way for me when the tendency is already to push the tires outward and the bigger the tire, the more push. (depending on scrub radius and where the angles intersect - which varies with wheels and tires)

I walk a little better with my toes pointed out. Especially when leaving the bar.

 

[Darkspeed]

im calling shenanigans on toe out. last thing i want is oversteer at 80 on the highway.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I’ve not found play anywhere, and though I can’t or the shop can find any in the ball joints it makes sense with camber issues on the passengers side from the alignment sheet.

It's out of range slightly but I'd no call it "issues". you are only 1/4 degree difference and only slightly out of spec assuming THEY have the correct and latest spec for your specific truck and model year. It can vary as the manufacturer learns or changes specs. I always ask if they have the specific specs for MY truck or car. Too often they use generic specs.

I can't say if they have the correct current specs for your truck, but it's not that far out, IMO.

Yes, it could indicate some ball joint wear and with the wheels and tires you are running, it's more stress on those joints. It's so hard to find shops and techs that know what things mean - they look at red or green and that's all they know.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

im calling shenanigans on toe out. last thing i want is oversteer at 80 on the highway.

It flies in the face of decades of suspension and steering engineering.

 

[Buckeye Jeeper]

No one says it, but they do it....... look at how this thread started.
Happens all the time, look around at the posts where someone threw on a lift kit or made some other change and now something else isn't working.
They don't advocate - they do.
Even here you see "you don't need xxxx" and so on. Getting by.

I get what you’re saying and I have taken consideration into everything I’ve put on it. Mine has been modeled off a friend’s gladiator who has been wheeling for years and has a reputable YouTube overlanding channel. Everything has stayed the same on my gladiator since I purchased it and has been amazing road mannered until the first cold front moved in. I only changed and upgraded the steering and stabilizer because the dealership said my factory stabilizer was bad. They ordered one and it was on back order. After two months of it setting at the dealership and still no stabilizer showing up I decided to go get it. Figured it may cost me a little extra but it was getting winter here and I need 4x4 to get back and forth to work. And now it still hasn’t fixed it so I’m not giving up but it’s definitely frustrating. The only thing I haven’t changed is the ball joints. I do see a lot of deflection in the frame and steering box. There’s a lot of steering box above the frame and it flexes more than I would think it should. So this week it’s getting a steer smarts sector shaft brace installed. May not fix it but I think it needs it regardless. For years people have fought with the frame flexing and steering box with bigger tires. I’ve seen guys with older fords and chevys back in the late 70’s early 80’s plate their frames. Ultimately I know it’s from added weight and stress from bigger tires. If nothing else it should help keep something else from tearing up.

 

[Buckeye Jeeper]

It's out of range slightly but I'd no call it "issues". you are only 1/4 degree difference and only slightly out of spec assuming THEY have the correct and latest spec for your specific truck and model year. It can vary as the manufacturer learns or changes specs. I always ask if they have the specific specs for MY truck or car. Too often they use generic specs.

I can't say if they have the correct current specs for your truck, but it's not that far out, IMO.

Yes, it could indicate some ball joint wear and with the wheels and tires you are running, it's more stress on those joints. It's so hard to find shops and techs that know what things mean - they look at red or green and that's all they know.

I agree, thank you

 

[Buckeye Jeeper]

did they take the knuckle off and verify the ball joints are good or just try to pry the tire? ( take the knuckle off )

also did they pull bolts to look for elongated holes. sometimes elongation of holes can be hidden by torqued bolts.

No they did not remove the knuckles, I know that for sure. The used a bar under them the same as I did at home.

 

[Darkspeed]

No they did not remove the knuckles, I know that for sure. The used a bar under them the same as I did at home.

I would pull the knuckles and see how tight the two joints feel when you try to wiggel them by hand. Those plastic inserts between the shell and the ball seem to fail pretty qiuck

 

[Buckeye Jeeper]

Have you thought about the bushings in the arms themselves are allowing excessive play? You wouldnt be the first person I've heard have one of the rubber bushings go bad early.

Also as mentioned above, try turning in the tie rod 1 full rotation. If you were at 0 before that should get you about right for toe in and maybe measure yourself. Alignment machines are very precise but are still only as good as the person doing it. Jeeps are pretty sensitive to toe in/out so double checking it can't hurt.

Yes I agree, and I have had them check the bushings. Only play in any of them was the track bar end and Clayton replaced it u deer warranty. It was very minimal but enough they sent me a new one and it was replaced. As far as tie in, I’m gonna have them try that this week.

 

[Buckeye Jeeper]

I knew I'd seen it somewhere.

Not to further muddy the water, but I knew I'd seen it somewhere.
Steer Smarts calls for 1/2 degree toe out in the instructions that come with their alignment plates. ?

Good starting point.......... but there's a reason they use degrees in most cases these day. 1/8" toe in measured on a 32" tire will be a lot more when measured with a 35" tire and yet if you reduce the toe-in with that bigger tire, you may cause issues.
Bigger tire, wider tire, center of tire out farther than the line through the king pin, they want to force outward even more than stock.
Starting with 1/8" in is a great spot to start.
In any case, 0 ain't good unless you have weird circumstances that cause the tires to want to toe inward, and it happens depending on the changes made.

If you change tire diameter and nothing else, you shift the point of intersection to above the road. (as these have minimal camber, that line isn't as exaggerated as in this image)
Change wheels and you move the intersection below the road by moving the centerline of the tire outward.

Yeah I’ve seen that, but I’ve also been told you can’t do it from the rotor with the tie adjustment plates. Especially with bigger tires, you need to do it out where the tires are actually going to sit. I tried it off my rotors but then when my tires went back on it was way off lol. Like almost 2” off

 

[Lunentucker]

You may have just answered your own question. ?
Come to think of it, mine too.
The plates are not measuring under any load.

 

[Jteakus]

Whatever you try do it in single stages if possible so the problem can be identified.

 

[Buckeye Jeeper]

Whatever you try do it in single stages if possible so the problem can be identified.

I’m trying, thank you

 

[bleda2002]

Do you have a trackbar brace? Could the holes have wallowed slightly and the shrinking of the cold is pushing it over the edge? Sorry just spitballing at this point.

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