3.6 Codes issue & diagnoses

[ShadowsPapa]

Okay. Now I’m concerned again. I was installing new tappets (cam follower)and checked the springiness and most are springy but one is not. Now I’m worried it will be similar situation. Any thoughts?

If you can't springboard that center high lift section when the thing isn't running, that's normal because they default to high lift mode with the center section locked.
It takes oil pressure to retract the pin and let the high lift center "float" on the spring.
New rockers should not allow you to press that center section more than a couple of thousandths or so as the pin has it locked in place.
It takes oil pressure - about 10psi or so, to retract that pin so that the high lift center section can ride on the spring.

This is a rocker/follower in normal "not running" or "default" mode.
The spring has the plunger pushed into the rocker, locking the high lift center (the top in this picture) from moving.
So if you have a box of new rockers - this is how they'd look inside, and you won't be able to press them down as the pin has them locked in place.

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[Lost1wing]

If you can't springboard that center high lift section when the thing isn't running, that's normal because they default to high lift mode with the center section locked.
It takes oil pressure to retract the pin and let the high lift center "float" on the spring.
New rockers should not allow you to press that center section more than a couple of thousandths or so as the pin has it locked in place.
It takes oil pressure - about 10psi or so, to retract that pin so that the high lift center section can ride on the spring.

This is a rocker/follower in normal "not running" or "default" mode.
The spring has the plunger pushed into the rocker, locking the high lift center (the top in this picture) from moving.
So if you have a box of new rockers - this is how they'd look inside, and you won't be able to press them down as the pin has them locked in place.

https://automotiveseminars.com/wp-c...e-Valve-Lift-Operation-Diagnostics-Manual.pdf

This was informative!

 

[ShadowsPapa]

https://automotiveseminars.com/wp-c...e-Valve-Lift-Operation-Diagnostics-Manual.pdf

This was informative!

Yeah, I have that (and a couple other docs) - you may recognize the picture above from that PDF.

It really gets me that with all of the information out there, and all of the real MOPAR techs who work on these, that there's still youtube videos where the guy working on these is all but clueless. The one guy, his video has been posted here twice in the last 4 weeks or so, says that the low lift "disables the cylinder" in one statement, then says "it's really low" and basically suggesting it has to be in high lift to function. Not true. It's in low lift at idle, cruise modes on the interstate and other times when higher output isn't needed. It doesn't disable anything.

 

[Lost1wing]

Yeah, I have that (and a couple other docs) - you may recognize the picture above from that PDF.

It really gets me that with all of the information out there, and all of the real MOPAR techs who work on these, that there's still youtube videos where the guy working on these is all but clueless. The one guy, his video has been posted here twice in the last 4 weeks or so, says that the low lift "disables the cylinder" in one statement, then says "it's really low" and basically suggesting it has to be in high lift to function. Not true. It's in low lift at idle, cruise modes on the interstate and other times when higher output isn't needed. It doesn't disable anything.

That link pretty much verifies and explains what you have been saying. I was looking for the oil path diagram.! I noticed on the table it has a note about coolant temp. Is that for the possible higher oil pressure at start up and prevents high lift until the engine warms up? The PUG had a different note.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

That link pretty much verifies and explains what you have been saying. I was looking for the oil path diagram.! I noticed on the table it has a note about coolant temp. Is that for the possible higher oil pressure at start up and prevents high lift until the engine warms up? The PUG had a different note.

If you mean the table of oil pressures, the pressures are assuming the recommended oil viscosity at 212 degree coolant temperatures - cooler and oil pressures can be higher, hotter and it could be lower.
They've lowered the pressure specs because -
High pressure isn't needed - it's parasitic and unnecessary load on the chain, pump and engine overall.
Volume is more critical.

The rockers start in default mode - high lift - to improve air flow, engine breathing for faster starting.
The oil pump starts in high volume mode to fill the galleries as fast as possible and kick the rockers back into low lift mode.

Not sure why the gen 1, "classic" pentastar as they call it, "might be" in high volume mode under 212 degrees coolant temps. You may spend a lot of time under 212 degrees.

 

[ucijeepguy]

I’m not even sure where to start looking. So I got the cam swap done on the pass side, reinstalled the cover, coolant lines, batteries and fuse box. Checked everything and seems everything went in correct spots. Started up to check and was running fine. It showed battery start stop not available warning. Then the dash started lighting up on and off. I figured the battery needed to charge so I u plugged it and charged and now there are no lights or dash coming on whatsoever. Like it’s dead black. Not really sure what’s going on here.

 

[Hootbro]

I’m not even sure where to start looking. So I got the cam swap done on the pass side, reinstalled the cover, coolant lines, batteries and fuse box. Checked everything and seems everything went in correct spots. Started up to check and was running fine. It showed battery start stop not available warning. Then the dash started lighting up on and off. I figured the battery needed to charge so I u plugged it and charged and now there are no lights or dash coming on whatsoever. Like it’s dead black. Not really sure what’s going on here.

I would be checking the fuse array on the fuse box if it is totally black.

 

[Lost1wing]

I’m not even sure where to start looking. So I got the cam swap done on the pass side, reinstalled the cover, coolant lines, batteries and fuse box. Checked everything and seems everything went in correct spots. Started up to check and was running fine. It showed battery start stop not available warning. Then the dash started lighting up on and off. I figured the battery needed to charge so I u plugged it and charged and now there are no lights or dash coming on whatsoever. Like it’s dead black. Not really sure what’s going on here.

Start with all of your battery connections, IBS plug and anything else that you touched during the cam replacement. Like Hootbro said, look at your fuse array. If you didn't disconnect and isolate your cables very well, you could have certainly blew a fuze. Totally dead? But it started after the work? Check your connections first.

 

[ucijeepguy]

Start with all of your battery connections, IBS plug and anything else that you touched during the cam replacement. Like Hootbro said, look at your fuse array. If you didn't disconnect and isolate your cables very well, you could have certainly blew a fuze. Totally dead? But it started after the work? Check your connections first.

I just checked the fuses under the hood. Everything looks good. Yes I’ll check connections again. It started ran fine but dash was giving issues so I figured it was low battery from sitting while doing this work.
There are a bunch of power cables on the fuse box, maybe I got them mixed up?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I just checked the fuses under the hood. Everything looks good. Yes I’ll check connections again. It started ran fine but dash was giving issues so I figured it was low battery from sitting while doing this work.
There are a bunch of power cables on the fuse box, maybe I got them mixed up?

Not the fuses in the box but the big high current fuse array at the end where there are multiple studs marked N1 and so on
Unless you separated the two ground cables from each other and prevented them from touching anything at all, you likely blew part of that big fuse array.

You can't just take the cable off the main battery terminal and call it good - you must take the two cables apart from each other, or the system is still hot.
You have two batteries.......... one under that PDC/fuse panel area.

 

[ucijeepguy]

Not the fuses in the box but the big high current fuse array at the end where there are multiple studs marked N1 and so on
Unless you separated the two ground cables from each other and prevented them from touching anything at all, you likely blew part of that big fuse array.

You can't just take the cable off the main battery terminal and call it good - you must take the two cables apart from each other, or the system is still hot.
You have two batteries.......... one under that PDC/fuse panel area.

I unbolted them and electrical taped them. But I could have touched something who knows. So if they did touch and I blew the fuse array what do I do? Does that whole thing need to be replaced?

 

[Lost1wing]

You need a VOM to check the fuse array. Look for continuity from the large metal plate to each terminal. The cables need to be removed. You will also need an AGM battery charger to charge up your batteries.​

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If you removed the main battery only, you likely killed the Aux battery because it would still have been connected. It would be possible to start the engine when you reconnected the main, but you would have faults like you saw.​

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Test your fuse array and charge both batteries.​

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[Hootbro]

If you have to buy a fuse array, pay the coin for the OEM one. Do not be tempted by the cheap no name $20 ones on Amazon.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

If you have to buy a fuse array, pay the coin for the OEM one. Do not be tempted by the cheap no name $20 ones on Amazon.

I wish I could give 10 likes for that one.

 

[Hootbro]

I wish I could give 10 likes for that one.

I accept Paypal and Venmo also.

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