4300 lbs w/ 3.87 standard tow package?

[kelkolb]

True but the charts I find show that the stock Overland axle carriers won't take 4.10s, - which makes sense based on other differentials I've rebuilt. The pinion is larger, the ring gear thinner and the carrier won't work with the fact that the pinion is larger - the carrier ring gear mounting area has to be moved over to accommodate the larger pinion.
I'll have to see if I can find those charts again..........
Here's one example - shows I'm stuck with the 3.73.
I can't afford over 2 grand to swap carriers, too......

I guess it's possible that that's the point in which the carrier changes.

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[ShadowsPapa]

So this might be a noob question already answered but I just got my JT a few weeks ago with the class 4 tow package, not max tow. The only difference seems to be 4.10s and the wider M220 axles. Has anyone towed 7650 with just the class 4. Without an addition of the brake controller I don’t see it being a major issue for relatively short tows

IMO, you are pushing it stability-wise. Why did they put wider axles under such a light, high profile vehicle? A lot of engineering and testing went into this - there's an article out there showing the struggle. And with the higher gear ratio you'll have heat to deal with. The engine won't be in its sweet spot, the transmission will be generating more heat.
If it wasn't a big deal, then surly you'd see a lot more people doing it and Jeep could up the ante a bit with higher numbers on the lesser rigs.

 

[Texops]

True but the charts I find show that the stock Overland axle carriers won't take 4.10s, - which makes sense based on other differentials I've rebuilt. The pinion is larger, the ring gear thinner and the carrier won't work with the fact that the pinion is larger - the carrier ring gear mounting area has to be moved over to accommodate the larger pinion.
I'll have to see if I can find those charts again..........
Here's one example - shows I'm stuck with the 3.73.
I can't afford over 2 grand to swap carriers, too......

Hey i have the Overland and regular tow package 373 gears had my gears changed to 5.13 HD Dana spicer did not change my carrier or my factory LS . $1650 out the door . This Dana Adventek 44 is a very heavy duty axle M210 front M220 rear.

 

[Texops]

Dana spicer web site says carrier is good from 3.07 on up

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Hey i have the Overland and regular tow package 373 gears had my gears changed to 5.13 HD Dana spicer did not change my carrier or my factory LS . $1650 out the door . This Dana Adventek 44 is a very heavy duty axle M210 front M220 rear.

So you are saying that these JT axles are not the 44s shown in the chart I found and posted where they said the 3.73 was it? That's the other 44 before the JT? Different axles?

I'd likely only go 4.10s, don't want to lose highway drive-ability, but don't want the bloody thing to STRUGGLE like it did, hunting non-stop, literally, with an empty trailer.

Of course this being central Iowa - good luck finding anyone that knows anything or who could even swap out gears on these things here for less that both arms and a leg below the knee.

(cruise set at 66 tonight looked like the RPM was right about 1800)

 

[LostWoods]

It will be fine. Towing with the stock Sport, Sport S, and Overland is the equivalent of towing with the Max Tow on 35" tires from a gearing perspective and I just did that with 4k this weekend without issue. Barely knew the trailer was back there in the flats with a little extra work on hills.

Just keep your speed responsible, use the transmission smartly, and monitor your AT temps if applicable.

@ the dude asking about towing 7k+ on a standard tow, I wouldn't tow that on even a Max Tow again. When I had the stock tires I helped someone move two pallets of cinder blocks about 10 miles and it was painful despite dialing in tongue weight. Even at 55mph (shitty roads though) it was nerve wracking... the trucks just aren't built to tow that much weight.

 

[Texops]

So you are saying that these JT axles are not the 44s shown in the chart I found and posted where they said the 3.73 was it? That's the other 44 before the JT? Different axles?

I'd likely only go 4.10s, don't want to lose highway drive-ability, but don't want the bloody thing to STRUGGLE like it did, hunting non-stop, literally, with an empty trailer.

Of course this being central Iowa - good luck finding anyone that knows anything or who could even swap out gears on these things here for less that both arms and a leg below the knee.

(cruise set at 66 tonight looked like the RPM was right about 1800)

Maybe so where did you get that chart from ? These axles are not even close to JK axles the closes axle To it is used in the rear of the titan & it has different features

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Maybe so where did you get that chart from ? These axles are not even close to JK axles the closes axle To it is used in the rear of the titan & it has different features

That chart is from here - and likely it's for the other 44s based on what you've done.
https://www.differentials.com/technical-help-2/carrier-breaks/

 

[Texops]

That chart is from here - and likely it's for the other 44s based on what you've done.
https://www.differentials.com/technical-help-2/carrier-breaks/

Yeah that is just the older generation Dana 44 it never mentioned AdvenTEK 44. So yes i didn’t have to replace my carrier

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Yeah that is just the older generation Dana 44 it never mentioned AdvenTEK 44. So yes i didn’t have to replace my carrier

Well that clears that up then. Thanks.
I guess I COULD change gear ratios if I chose to.
But right now my wife says
fix spring height in the rear first ( she asked how the swap went, I told her that I lost some rear height with the max tow springs - she asked if I could "fix it")
then look into proximity locks now that someone has figured out how to add them, and go from there.

 

[Mallai]

Hey i have the Overland and regular tow package 373 gears had my gears changed to 5.13 HD Dana spicer did not change my carrier or my factory LS . $1650 out the door . This Dana Adventek 44 is a very heavy duty axle M210 front M220 rear.

so did you do the work yourself?..This looks like a less expensive/better option than paying $4k at the dealership..

 

[ShadowsPapa]

so did you do the work yourself?..This looks like a less expensive/better option than paying $4k at the dealership..

I'm going to guess here that out the door means 'parts, labor, shop supplies, tax'.
But it's best he explain if that's what he meant.
I wonder if he's set up to check pinion depth, lash, clearance, mesh pattern, etc.

It's one thing to simply replace bearings, it's another to put in a gear set and then deal with setting the pinion, carrier preload and such.
That is unless technology and machining methods have been so perfected that every single gear will match any other gear perfectly and you never have to worry about mesh and such things.

 

[Mallai]

I'm going to guess here that out the door means parts, labor, shop supplies, tax.

I'm starting to think I have the wrong vehicle for what I want to do..unfortunately my dream retirement came to me after I bought my JT.. :0

 

[LostWoods]

I mean you're right in the sweet spot for towing in the mid-size... 3k-5k is where something like a Jeep isn't enough, a 4Runner is getting pushed a bit, but a full size is overkill. This way you're not dealing with full-size issues either when you want to go play a little bit.

The "max tow" conversion is a dead end. Even $20k won't get them to re-classify your tow rating officially and that's all that matters from a liability standpoint if you get into an accident and it was considered a factor. It's not illegal to tow over your rating in any state I know of as long as you meet the mechanical requirements (e.g. trailer brakes over so many lbs).

Your best move is to fix the functional issues - namely 3.73 gears and brake control. Stepping up to 4.10s with the MT or 4.56 with the AT will drastically improve your quality of life if you find yourself pointed upwards and a trailer brake controller will be good for stability from that standpoint. At 4,300 lbs you're still within your trailer weight rating so no issues with liability there.

The larger rear brakes and 1.5" wider track are going to make very little functional difference towing that low in the weight range. Nobody has been able to establish officially that the wide track axles are any thicker either so the only other benefit the max tow gets is the cooling and gearing. If you step up your gears, you'll reduce engine load and as long as you monitor temps, I doubt you'd miss the cooling. Should you decide you want it, I can't imagine it's that much to add.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I mean you're right in the sweet spot for towing in the mid-size... 3k-5k is where something like a Jeep isn't enough, a 4Runner is getting pushed a bit, but a full size is overkill. This way you're not dealing with full-size issues either when you want to go play a little bit.

The "max tow" conversion is a dead end. Even $20k won't get them to re-classify your tow rating officially and that's all that matters from a liability standpoint if you get into an accident and it was considered a factor. It's not illegal to tow over your rating in any state I know of as long as you meet the mechanical requirements (e.g. trailer brakes over so many lbs).

Your best move is to fix the functional issues - namely 3.73 gears and brake control. Stepping up to 4.10s with the MT or 4.56 with the AT will drastically improve your quality of life if you find yourself pointed upwards and a trailer brake controller will be good for stability from that standpoint. At 4,300 lbs you're still within your trailer weight rating so no issues with liability there.

The larger rear brakes and 1.5" wider track are going to make very little functional difference towing that low in the weight range. Nobody has been able to establish officially that the wide track axles are any thicker either so the only other benefit the max tow gets is the cooling and gearing. If you step up your gears, you'll reduce engine load and as long as you monitor temps, I doubt you'd miss the cooling. Should you decide you want it, I can't imagine it's that much to add.

The axles aren't thicker - I should see if I can dig up the numbers I found. Tube thickness is the same, too - they did beef that up for all JT axles.

Iowa - trailer brakes -
If your trailer and load weighs more than 3,000 pounds (1-1/2 tons), it must have brakes on all axles. They can be self-actuating if the combination is less than 10,001 pounds combined GVWR, or brakes you can apply from the towing vehicle. On certain combinations of over 10,001 pounds combined GVWR, self-actuating surge brakes are allowed depending on the GVWR of the towed unit.

Mirrors in Iowa -
When pulling a trailer you must still be able to see 200 feet behind your trailer.If the trailer or its load blocks your rearview mirror, you will need additional side mirrors to see behind the trailer. If your trailer is wider than the towing vehicle, you will need extended side-view mirrors to see to the rear.

I thought I had info about weights somewhere....... maybe not.....

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