6 Speed Manual Regrets?

[NachoRuby]

Sounds like the tall gear can't be avoided if all makes are doing it. Not sure why, but it is what it is. Are you enjoying your manual?

Great , looking forward to it. I'm sure ay some point I will upgrade to 35 or possibility 37's. Regear will be in plan ay that point.

You'll be fine with 4.1s on 35s, but more gear won't hurt. I've been on 35s with the stock gears for about 8000 miles now. 37s would probably suck without re-gearing, though. One day, eventually, I'll regear it to 4.88:1, but I'm in no rush, and I've got other projects for now on some old cars that will take my money. I've got an old bug, and my wife bought an old Jetta that will need some TLC.

I'm enjoying the gladiator manual a lot. It's my every day vehicle as well as my trail vehicle, and it's enjoyable for both. I don't get out on the trails nearly as much as I want to, but the MT has never been a detriment for me. I'm at 20,000 miles.

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[NachoRuby]

I changed the MT and tcase oil today. 26k on the clock.
Filled with Mobil-1 multi vehicle ATF. Tcase was clear but tranny was quite dark.
Im thinking the tranny should be changed earlier like 15K based on what I saw.

While I was under there refilled diffs with 80w90 Valvoline hypoid oil. Rear diff was pretty dark front was pristine as might be expected.

We will see how Mobile-1 affects the synchros but I'm not expecting any surprises.

Do you wheel a decent amount? Or just from towing?

 

[Geoarch]

I've pulled~2500lb with my bone stock JTR and it does just fine, for the most part. 6th gear is pretty much worthless though, but I try not to use 6th unless I'm >65mph, even without a trailer, and I also try not to exceed 65 when towing, so it's mostly a non issue.


Has anybody found a logical reason for the tall gearing in reverse? Like, couldn't fit the gearset they needed or something like that? Or just poor engineering? Does anyone test these things out before releasing them?

I have a TRDPro MT and it’s even higher! Can’t back up a hill.

 

[seven30]

Do you wheel a decent amount? Or just from towing?

Mostly towing at the moment with a few weekends of messing around mainly to loosen up the tcase a bit. I may refil the diff in 10k to see how its doing.

 

[NachoRuby]

I have a TRDPro MT and it’s even higher! Can’t back up a hill.

For whatever reason, everyone's doing it. For the life of me I don't understand it. It can't be for gas mileage, unless they're rating vehicles in reverse now.

 

[DanW]

I changed the MT and tcase oil today. 26k on the clock.
Filled with Mobil-1 multi vehicle ATF. Tcase was clear but tranny was quite dark.
Im thinking the tranny should be changed earlier like 15K based on what I saw.

While I was under there refilled diffs with 80w90 Valvoline hypoid oil. Rear diff was pretty dark front was pristine as might be expected.

We will see how Mobile-1 affects the synchros but I'm not expecting any surprises.

That may or may not be the correct fluid for the Tranny or T-case, both of which spec ATF+4. The blue bottle Mobil Multi Vehicle ATF is good to go. The Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF does not cover Chrysler specs, according to their web site or Product Data Sheet.

If you used the blue bottle, then that's the right one and a very good one.

From the Mobil web site for Mobil Multi Vehicle ATF (blue bottle).

•Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep: ATF+ , ATF+2, ATF+3, ATF+4, AS68RC ATF, MB236.12, P/N 05127382AA, P/N 68043742AA, P/N 68157995AA/AB / 68218925AA, SP-III

The Mobil 1 version, silver bottle, covers GM Dexron, Ford Mercon, Volvo, and Allison, but not any Chrysler (or even ZF) specification. Specifically, it does not list ATF+4.

You can call Exxon Mobil at 1-800-662-4525 to ask them about it.

Another high-end option is Red Line C+ ATF. It outperforms the ATF+4 spec in every way, as I'm sure the Mobil 1 formula does. The only downside to the Red Line is that it is very expensive.

Here are the stats on Red Line....

https://www.redlineoil.com/Content/files/tech/C_PLUS_ATF_PROD_INFO.pdf

The pour point on this stuff is at a crazy low temp of -76 degrees. That tells me it has a Group IV or PAO synthetic base stock. That's way lower than the ATF+4 spec. It also likely has much greater stability at high temps, too. Far, far higher than these gear boxes or T-cases will ever see. (That's why plain ATF+4 works just fine, too.)

The ATF+4 spec is pretty tight and any brand, even cheap Walmart Supertech, works just fine and performs identically to the Chrysler factory spec. The only two I've seen that outperform it are the Mobil Multi-Vehicle ATF (blue bottle) or the Red Line C+.

I've run Castrol ATF+4, Valvoline ATF+4, and Supertech ATF+4 in my JK over its 170k mile lifetime and it still performs like new. Most of that was with the Valvoline. I think I paid $7 a quart last time but the Supertech was about $6 a quart. Supertech is made by Warren Distribution, which has a very good reputation.

 

[seven30]

That may or may not be the correct fluid for the Tranny or T-case, both of which spec ATF+4. The blue bottle Mobil Multi Vehicle ATF is good to go. The Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF does not cover Chrysler specs, according to their web site or Product Data Sheet.

If you used the blue bottle, then that's the right one and a very good one.

From the Mobil web site for Mobil Multi Vehicle ATF (blue bottle).

•Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep: ATF+ , ATF+2, ATF+3, ATF+4, AS68RC ATF, MB236.12, P/N 05127382AA, P/N 68043742AA, P/N 68157995AA/AB / 68218925AA, SP-III

The Mobil 1 version, silver bottle, covers GM Dexron, Ford Mercon, Volvo, and Allison, but not any Chrysler (or even ZF) specification. Specifically, it does not list ATF+4.

You can call Exxon Mobil at 1-800-662-4525 to ask them about it.

Another high-end option is Red Line C+ ATF. It outperforms the ATF+4 spec in every way, as I'm sure the Mobil 1 formula does. The only downside to the Red Line is that it is very expensive.

Here are the stats on Red Line....

https://www.redlineoil.com/Content/files/tech/C_PLUS_ATF_PROD_INFO.pdf

The pour point on this stuff is at a crazy low temp of -76 degrees. That tells me it has a Group IV or PAO synthetic base stock. That's way lower than the ATF+4 spec. It also likely has much greater stability at high temps, too. Far, far higher than these gear boxes or T-cases will ever see. (That's why plain ATF+4 works just fine, too.)

The ATF+4 spec is pretty tight and any brand, even cheap Walmart Supertech, works just fine and performs identically to the Chrysler factory spec. The only two I've seen that outperform it are the Mobil Multi-Vehicle ATF (blue bottle) or the Red Line C+.

I've run Castrol ATF+4, Valvoline ATF+4, and Supertech ATF+4 in my JK over its 170k mile lifetime and it still performs like new. Most of that was with the Valvoline. I think I paid $7 a quart last time but the Supertech was about $6 a quart. Supertech is made by Warren Distribution, which has a very good reputation.

Believe me if this as an auto only ATF+4 and probably mopar brand would be going into it. But with the MT my top concern is gear wear with synchro preservation a close second. The Mobil-1 ATF will be fine for the gears so its just a question of synchro compatibility.

 

[Deleted member 30519]

Yessir. Getting better gas mileage keeping the RPMs in that range. Much better than lugging it, and it's actually responsive.

How safe is it to go over 3k and stay over 3k? Im running 5:13 gears with 38s and I go up a lot of steep grades on my commute and sometimes I feel like it's gotta be at 3200 rpm to really get it moving. I usually stay at 2900 rpm cus I'm scared to really abuse it but the more and more I'm reading about the manual that's not the case. So what's the story with this 2nd oil pump over 3k because a lot of people always bring that up. Something tells me I've asked this question before.

 

[Mr.volleyball13]

Anyone running 37's with your MT and 4:10 gears? Gladiator is on order, wheels are picked out, just deciding on tire size and what I can get away with on the 6-speed. I know many auto guys say it's durable without gearing. Wondering what peoplea experiences are with the manual?

 

[AustinL911]

Anyone running 37's with your MT and 4:10 gears? Gladiator is on order, wheels are picked out, just deciding on tire size and what I can get away with on the 6-speed. I know many auto guys say it's durable without gearing. Wondering what peoplea experiences are with the manual?

No personal experience but common theme here is that you won't like it.

 

[NachoRuby]

Anyone running 37's with your MT and 4:10 gears? Gladiator is on order, wheels are picked out, just deciding on tire size and what I can get away with on the 6-speed. I know many auto guys say it's durable without gearing. Wondering what peoplea experiences are with the manual?

I wouldn't do it without re-gearing. 35s is about the limit on 4.1s, and 33s on the 3.73s, before it becomes necessary to regear. I have 35s on 4.1s, and I don't think 37s would be fun at all. Regear first

 

[Mr.volleyball13]

I wouldn't do it without re-gearing. 35s is about the limit on 4.1s, and 33s on the 3.73s, before it becomes necessary to regear. I have 35s on 4.1s, and I don't think 37s would be fun at all. Regear first

Thank you for input. I'll use the $2000 I saved getting the manual and regear. A local shop quoted me $2300 for Yukon gear set.

 

[Jt-wrx]

Anyone tow anything around or above 3000 lbs with their manual. How was the experience?

all the time

4.88's, 37's, through the mountains, it's a good match, 4th gear handles 64 mph through 95% of the time around 2800-3000 rpm, 3rd gear for the steep hill climbs (usually the ones with passing lanes), drop to about 56-59 mph and 4000-4500 rpm through those climbs, and 5 th gear on the flats/downhills with tail winds and 71-75 mph occasionally. Go 5.13's if you have heavier build, pull lots of trailer etc. but I'm happy with my sport s build and 4.88's.

 

[hjdca]

How safe is it to go over 3k and stay over 3k? Im running 5:13 gears with 38s and I go up a lot of steep grades on my commute and sometimes I feel like it's gotta be at 3200 rpm to really get it moving. I usually stay at 2900 rpm cus I'm scared to really abuse it but the more and more I'm reading about the manual that's not the case. So what's the story with this 2nd oil pump over 3k because a lot of people always bring that up. Something tells me I've asked this question before.

Since it is an electric oil pump instead of mechanical, it has to electrically increase the psi at 3K to have sufficient oil supply at high rpm. I have 5:13s, live in the mountains, and have 42K miles on my manual HTR and change my oil every 3.5K miles and my engine still seems brand new. No oil burn, no ticking. I also read somewhere that revving the 3.6 past 5K every once in a while is good for the lubrication. I usually rev it to 5500K a couple of times a day with no issue. I religiously run Chevron 89 in my motor and have never heard any detonation/marbles in any gear since I had it.

As far as I am concerned, the only issue I see with running at 3K rpm with the increased oil pressure psi is overall fuel consumption. Unless you are towing a heavy load, on flat land, low elevation, you will get better fuel mileage at 2500 rpm vs 3100 rpm.

PS. for those of you still thinking about 4:88 vs 5:13, do not only consider the hwy rpm..., also consider the acceleration and 4WD low granny gear. The 5:13s allow increased acceleration vs 4:88s and the 5:13s with the Rubicon 4:1 transfer case give you a great granny gear for rock crawling on 37s -- this last point is much more important for a stick shift vs. an automatic.

 

[Jt-wrx]

I found 3000 rpm is about the cut off point from the low pressure oil pump at 28 psi or whatever it is and then as you pull above 3000 rpm the 2nd stage kicks in and you see 77-78 psi from recollection. In case that's of interest to anyone, at first I thought it may be a bad thing to run at higher oil pressure on the highway extended etc. but reality may be better protection so not sure it's a thing or not.

Anyway, I can confirm that towing at 2500 rpm is lugging and I actually get better mileage at 3000 rpm in 4th than trying to lug 25-2600 in 5th as it's not in lug land, pentastars like revs. So my recommendation for towing goal is 3000 rpm in 4th...whatever speed that lands you at. 4th is your 1:1 tow gear. With 4.88's and 37's that's about 64 mph before you start into the 2nd stage oil pump.

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