Another ESS/Battery Question

[Jeeperjamie]

My auxiliary battery was working fine as well but I have a Tazer so my ESS is always off. I do not believe I’m putting any extra load on my battery but I will know exactly what the problem is if it fails prematurely . I did not remove the auxiliary battery leads just taped them up and my auxiliary battery is on a trickle charge. So far no issues.

My main battery left me stranded not the Auxiliary battery. I had to get my main battery replaced but the Aux is still going at 65,000 miles. I guess everyone's situation is different.

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[Panthers65]

Unlikely to leave you stranded. Those are not common cases. Further, I suspect some people trying to jump aren't giving enough time before trying the dead vehicle after connecting to a battery source (jump pack or live vehicle)
To much "iffy" stuff on the internet.
Did you know that the main battery also goes bad "leaving people stranded"? Yeah, contrary to what you read out there.

Been riding around the last week or so with the Aux battery bypassed via the F42 fuse and Aux negative cable pulled. There have been no changes to the state of the truck, still stats Start/Stop Not Ready with no other description or information.

Since my OBDII reader still isn't seeing any error codes, is there anything left I can check short of hooking everything back up and taking it to the dealership? I've charged the large battery with a good charger until it reads 100%, not sure what else I can diagnose on my end.

Edit: or does all this point do and identify the large battery as being the problem?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Been riding around the last week or so with the Aux battery bypassed via the F42 fuse and Aux negative cable pulled. There have been no changes to the state of the truck, still stats Start/Stop Not Ready with no other description or information.

Since my OBDII reader still isn't seeing any error codes, is there anything left I can check short of hooking everything back up and taking it to the dealership? I've charged the large battery with a good charger until it reads 100%, not sure what else I can diagnose on my end.

Edit: or does all this point do and identify the large battery as being the problem?

What's the voltage of the battery now - sitting, engine not running?

Otherwise - it might be time for a visit as not all things set codes you'll find. Some get marked as transient issues, etc.

 

[Panthers65]

What's the voltage of the battery now - sitting, engine not running?

Otherwise - it might be time for a visit as not all things set codes you'll find. Some get marked as transient issues, etc.

Voltage right now is 12.2 across the main battery terminals, same at N1 and N3. Last trip was about 4 hours ago; 1.9 miles each way.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Voltage right now is 12.2 across the main battery terminals, same at N1 and N3. Last trip was about 4 hours ago; 1.9 miles each way.

That's low - may have a main battery issue among other things.

 

[Jeeperjamie]

Voltage right now is 12.2 across the main battery terminals, same at N1 and N3. Last trip was about 4 hours ago; 1.9 miles each way.

I wasn't getting any codes either just the message

 

[Jeep-A-Kneez]

In the same boat with the start/stop not working. It has seen the service department at least 6 or more times for this issue and it's there now, since Monday of last week. It is deeply frustrating on both sides that this issue has yet to be resolved. Per the service department, both batteries have been replaced, the pcm flashed, next on their list is the battery sensor. They also admitted that mine isn't the only one, they have a few more giving them the same fit.

Like many, I am not a big fan of this system and would rather pull a fuse and a wire to do away with it. However, at only two years old and maybe 1500 miles left on the factory warranty, I want everything to work as it should. As others have started, there could be problems deeper in that could be hampering the start/stop system.

 

[Panthers65]

That's low - may have a main battery issue among other things.

I wasn't getting any codes either just the message

In the same boat with the start/stop not working. It has seen the service department at least 6 or more times for this issue and it's there now, since Monday of last week. It is deeply frustrating on both sides that this issue has yet to be resolved. Per the service department, both batteries have been replaced, the pcm flashed, next on their list is the battery sensor. They also admitted that mine isn't the only one, they have a few more giving them the same fit.

Like many, I am not a big fan of this system and would rather pull a fuse and a wire to do away with it. However, at only two years old and maybe 1500 miles left on the factory warranty, I want everything to work as it should. As others have started, there could be problems deeper in that could be hampering the start/stop system.

Alright, I put the Aux battery back in the system, and slow charged the vehicle overnight (with the aux battery in place I connected the 2a charger to both main terminals, charging the whole system). I checked this morning and was getting 12.7-12.8V across the two main terminals, but I know this could be measuring the voltage on either battery. Taking the clamp off the negative terminal so I'm just testing the main battery I also get 12.7. Going for a drive this afternoon to see what it does.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

but I know this could be measuring the voltage on either battery.

That's the voltage of the pair in parallel. So yes, if one is 12.8 and the other is 12.6 you'll come up with something in between.
Mine have read 13.+ after a charge but before the surface charge was removed (by running lights or some sort of load) for a couple of minutes then taking the load off.

If you have JUST removed a "charger" - 12.7 is the minimum I'd expect to see. 12.8 or higher is what should be seen immediately after a real charge if there's no load on the battery.

Voltage of the aux battery can be checked by going to N1 and to ground after it's ground cable is removed from the other ground cable at the main battery. - however, there will have been a load on it since it's connected to the electronics so expect nothing excitingly high.

Charging the batteries disconnected from a load, checking voltage, then a few hours later, checking it again, can give a clue to a battery failing to hold capacity. With no load it should stay up and not drop appreciably if it's disconnected.


(For lurkers, etc. -
2 amps isn't really going to do what a regular real charger would do - those are more maintainers for batteries that are already pretty well full.
When a battery is down enough and in need of help, a real charger of 10 amps or even 20, is better.
They sell the small ones on Amazon and eBay as chargers - but a true charger will have some real amperage capacity - an AGM battery needs to go through multiple phases - one is at a set current level, another at a set voltage level. 2 amps isn't going to cut it. That's for maintenance of decent batteries. I have maintainers and chargers. )

 

[porsharman]

Been riding around the last week or so with the Aux battery bypassed via the F42 fuse and Aux negative cable pulled. There have been no changes to the state of the truck, still stats Start/Stop Not Ready with no other description or information.

Since my OBDII reader still isn't seeing any error codes, is there anything left I can check short of hooking everything back up and taking it to the dealership? I've charged the large battery with a good charger until it reads 100%, not sure what else I can diagnose on my end.

Edit: or does all this point do and identify the large battery as being the problem?

You may not see the code with a regular OB2 scanner. However if you can grab a scanner that can connect to the Jeep’s electronic gateway ( where you connect a Tazer) like an Autel Maxi Ultra you would maybe see more information.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

JSCAN can do those scans that don't show codes that aren't set. Likely AlfaOBD can as well as it does in-depth scans.
I've not had to bypass the SGW or connect to it to do such scans.

 

[Panthers65]

(For lurkers, etc. -
2 amps isn't really going to do what a regular real charger would do - those are more maintainers for batteries that are already pretty well full.
When a battery is down enough and in need of help, a real charger of 10 amps or even 20, is better.
They sell the small ones on Amazon and eBay as chargers - but a true charger will have some real amperage capacity - an AGM battery needs to go through multiple phases - one is at a set current level, another at a set voltage level. 2 amps isn't going to cut it. That's for maintenance of decent batteries. I have maintainers and chargers. )

Just making sure it's clear, the charger I have is selectable 2A, 10a, and 15a; I did the 15 quickly the first time, this time I did the 2a since I could leave it over night. I've always heard its best to slow charge a battery if you have time.

You may not see the code with a regular OB2 scanner. However if you can grab a scanner that can connect to the Jeep’s electronic gateway ( where you connect a Tazer) like an Autel Maxi Ultra you would maybe see more information.

JSCAN can do those scans that don't show codes that aren't set. Likely AlfaOBD can as well as it does in-depth scans.
I've not had to bypass the SGW or connect to it to do such scans.

So it turns out, after some research, the Tazer can actually scan all the additional codes. I had a few come up, but I don't think they would affect the ESS, see below:

PTS System- No Response
ORC- no codes
DASM- No Response
RFH- 2 codes
*U140E-00- Definition: Implausible Vehicle Configuration Data Received. Something to do with the BCM and ABS System
*C259B-13- Definition:Right Rear Damping Valve Low Side 2-Circuit Open. Something to do with an air suspension system? Obviously nothing I have on my gladiator.

DTCM- No Codes
ABS- No Codes
TCM- No Codes
BCM- 2 codes
*P1514-87- Throttle Actuator Control System Mass Air Flow Performance. Would make sense while the Jeep is off.
*U113E-00- Definition: Lost Communication With Intelligent Battery Sensor. I forgot to put this back on yesterday. I reconnected it, just waiting on this code to clear out.

PCM- 1 Code; U113E- Definition: Lost Communication With Intelligent Battery Sensor Same as above

PTS- No Response


Oddly enough I drove it a short drive on Wednesday and the ESS worked twice, I havent drive it since. I found these codes this morning.

 

[porsharman]

JSCAN can do those scans that don't show codes that aren't set. Likely AlfaOBD can as well as it does in-depth scans.
I've not had to bypass the SGW or connect to it to do such scans.

Maybe you should tell my dealership to use your scanner because they scanned my Jeep via the OBD2 port and couldn’t find the stored codes I found using my scanner via the gateway.

 

[ecidiego]

(For lurkers, etc. -
2 amps isn't really going to do what a regular real charger would do - those are more maintainers for batteries that are already pretty well full.
When a battery is down enough and in need of help, a real charger of 10 amps or even 20, is better.
They sell the small ones on Amazon and eBay as chargers - but a true charger will have some real amperage capacity - an AGM battery needs to go through multiple phases - one is at a set current level, another at a set voltage level. 2 amps isn't going to cut it. That's for maintenance of decent batteries. I have maintainers and chargers. )

https://no.co/genius10

Those can charge a battery that is completely dead - 0 volts. Small Amazon charger I know....



"

• Charge dead batteries - Charges dead batteries as low as 1-volt. Or use the all-new Force Mode that allows you to take control and manually begin charging dead batteries down to zero volts.

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[SaplingT]

True that the aux battery now doesn't power the N1 post - the MAIN battery does UNLESS the engine is running, then it's the charging system - and it's absolutely fine. There's not that much of a load. It will handle it. Many people have removed the aux battery ground and been FINE.
As long as the engine is running and the output from the alternator is greater than battery voltage, the ALTERNATOR powers things. He who has the most voltage/pressure, wins.
Power flows from source with highest voltage to the source with the lower voltage (or the load)

We've been over this for over a year and Jerry as well as others have indeed pulled that ground.
N3 is a huge fuse - more than capable of running all electronics and HVAC, cluster, heated seats and so on.
Heck, when the aux battery is bad N3 handles things anyway - the aux battery isn't doing it because it's bad. Open sell, weak cell, diminished capacity, whatever. Batteries don't run the systems, the charging system does. Even when the aux is fully charged, the charging system is running things. So normally, N3 is feeding things.

N3 down to PCR, back up to N1 past the aux battery positive. N3 powers things normally - the aux battery even if good is only 12.8 volts tops. The charging system is pushing out over 13 - so, tell me where the power is coming from ? Not the aux battery - from the alternator.

It works fine, many have done it, not only Jerry. There's no reason for it to not work long term.

Reading this shematic I believe my 2022 diesel falls into the new version and the Aux battery is the main plate over the IBS. You can't just remove this terminal without relocating the wires on the wing. Correct?
Small wire is Aux wire and the larger wire on the wing is the body ground??

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