basic soft top or twill?

[Flyin6]

Owner of a hardtop JT370.
I have been actively whittling away all the extra weight, and that is an important component of the (possible) decision to install a soft top. Yea, so these JTs are either too heavy or have too little power coming from that spindly V6. The only way I have been able to address the lack of power has been through an aggressive weight reduction program. I am down over 250 from the stock AEV cow, and with summer nearly here and wanting some open-air time, someone mentioned that the soft top may save some weight. On that point, I am not sure as it seems the entire hardtop assembly is actually light at around 100 lbs.
I have not been able to find a good reference about how much the stock Mopar soft top weighs, but I am thinking it may be about the same, and I am hoping it would result in weight savings.
You can click on my build thread to read about everything I have done so far to reduce weight but basically, I have:
Tossed the little battery
Installed a Lithium to replace the main battery
Deleted the rear seats.
Tossed the way heavy AEV lights and AEV front bumper.
Tossed the AEV wheels for some ICON beadlocks
Tossed the stock exhaust for a lightweight replacement
Tossed the factory rock rails for some others
and went on a diet!

Having said all that and looking at these MOPAR soft tops, which one should I be looking at, Sailcloth or Twill?
Considering both weight and quality, also consider interior sound deadening and the ability to run all four seasons.

What say ye?

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[redriderjf87]

I have the premium soft top, I don't have any numbers, but I can't imagine there's much of a weight difference between it and the normal soft top (especially relative to the weight savings over the hard top). I would think the premium would be the way to go, if the price is similar, between the 2 oem soft tops at lrast.

I have a similar mindset though, I like saving weight and complexity where it makes sense.

 

[EezyE]

My Gladiator came with the standard soft top. After about 6 months of ownership, the frame of the top started poking through the front corner on the passenger side. Of course the dealer replaced it under warranty, but to my surprise, they replaced it with the premium top. After having both, definitely go with the premium top. To me, it would be worth the extra money as it’s a bit thicker and more durable.

 

[MrClortho]

Twill generally cost more but the material is noticeably thicker and higher quality in my experience.

 

[Zachattack50]

Going to 5.13's with 37's made all the difference in usable power curve. That said, we have the mopar soft top, love it. year round hear in Michigan and its holding up well, low noise for canvas on the expressway at 80-mph.

 

[Flyin6]

Going to 5.13's with 37's made all the difference in usable power curve. That said, we have the mopar soft top, love it. year round hear in Michigan and its holding up well, low noise for canvas on the expressway at 80-mph.

I installed 5.13's when the Jeep was still pretty new. Believe it or not AEV built the truck with 4.56 gears and 37" tires. It was a pig! That's when the love affair with AEV ended for me...

And to all, I am hearing a strong affirmation for the twill top/premium offering. Now the problem seems to be there are none available!

 

[Fungi3]

Owner of a hardtop JT370.
I have been actively whittling away all the extra weight, and that is an important component of the (possible) decision to install a soft top. Yea, so these JTs are either too heavy or have too little power coming from that spindly V6. The only way I have been able to address the lack of power has been through an aggressive weight reduction program. I am down over 250 from the stock AEV cow, and with summer nearly here and wanting some open-air time, someone mentioned that the soft top may save some weight. On that point, I am not sure as it seems the entire hardtop assembly is actually light at around 100 lbs.
I have not been able to find a good reference about how much the stock Mopar soft top weighs, but I am thinking it may be about the same, and I am hoping it would result in weight savings.
You can click on my build thread to read about everything I have done so far to reduce weight but basically, I have:
Tossed the little battery
Installed a Lithium to replace the main battery
Deleted the rear seats.
Tossed the way heavy AEV lights and AEV front bumper.
Tossed the AEV wheels for some ICON beadlocks
Tossed the stock exhaust for a lightweight replacement
Tossed the factory rock rails for some others
and went on a diet!

Having said all that and looking at these MOPAR soft tops, which one should I be looking at, Sailcloth or Twill?
Considering both weight and quality, also consider interior sound deadening and the ability to run all four seasons.

What say ye?

I'm a mechanical engineer and have worked on automotive builds of many types. I really think you're barking up the wrong tree regarding a weight reduction program on this type of truck. Basically, even if you took out 500# you barely recognize a power difference. Power curves on these engines are nowhere near linear, and the torque curve would barely notice a difference. Also, the wheel, suspension, and steering geometries are designed for the weight range of vehicle and cargo range. This type of truck used for regular and light off-road is not a good application for weight reduction. You will certainly cause more problems than you're solving. HOWEVER, if you are building a Baja racer, overland racer, bush racer, etc., then weight will make a big difference. But, in those cases they totally modify the vehicle from top to bottom to take out weight AND to create brand new suspension and steering geometries, major torque and horsepower increases, extreme engine and torque mods, shifting of center of gravity, shift weight distribution, etc. If you're doing it just to get up the next mountain road faster and easier, you have a "long, long road"...to go (Mr Tom Petty). In regard to the top you use, the hard top is not that heavy (approx 56# without freedom panels). The trill soft top provides a lot less road noise, can be left outside all year in snow/ice, and lasts 3-4 times longer. The regular soft top is lighter, but not by much. Both have a metal frame and metal slide back rails, frame, etc.

Owner of a hardtop JT370.
I have been actively whittling away all the extra weight, and that is an important component of the (possible) decision to install a soft top. Yea, so these JTs are either too heavy or have too little power coming from that spindly V6. The only way I have been able to address the lack of power has been through an aggressive weight reduction program. I am down over 250 from the stock AEV cow, and with summer nearly here and wanting some open-air time, someone mentioned that the soft top may save some weight. On that point, I am not sure as it seems the entire hardtop assembly is actually light at around 100 lbs.
I have not been able to find a good reference about how much the stock Mopar soft top weighs, but I am thinking it may be about the same, and I am hoping it would result in weight savings.
You can click on my build thread to read about everything I have done so far to reduce weight but basically, I have:
Tossed the little battery
Installed a Lithium to replace the main battery
Deleted the rear seats.
Tossed the way heavy AEV lights and AEV front bumper.
Tossed the AEV wheels for some ICON beadlocks
Tossed the stock exhaust for a lightweight replacement
Tossed the factory rock rails for some others
and went on a diet!

Having said all that and looking at these MOPAR soft tops, which one should I be looking at, Sailcloth or Twill?
Considering both weight and quality, also consider interior sound deadening and the ability to run all four seasons.

What say ye?

 

[Mthorsen]

Owner of a hardtop JT370.
I have been actively whittling away all the extra weight, and that is an important component of the (possible) decision to install a soft top. Yea, so these JTs are either too heavy or have too little power coming from that spindly V6. The only way I have been able to address the lack of power has been through an aggressive weight reduction program. I am down over 250 from the stock AEV cow, and with summer nearly here and wanting some open-air time, someone mentioned that the soft top may save some weight. On that point, I am not sure as it seems the entire hardtop assembly is actually light at around 100 lbs.
I have not been able to find a good reference about how much the stock Mopar soft top weighs, but I am thinking it may be about the same, and I am hoping it would result in weight savings.
You can click on my build thread to read about everything I have done so far to reduce weight but basically, I have:
Tossed the little battery
Installed a Lithium to replace the main battery
Deleted the rear seats.
Tossed the way heavy AEV lights and AEV front bumper.
Tossed the AEV wheels for some ICON beadlocks
Tossed the stock exhaust for a lightweight replacement
Tossed the factory rock rails for some others
and went on a diet!

Having said all that and looking at these MOPAR soft tops, which one should I be looking at, Sailcloth or Twill?
Considering both weight and quality, also consider interior sound deadening and the ability to run all four seasons.

What say ye?

If u r interested I have the twill for sale, like new, I’m in Hoover Al. U can call me if u r interested 205-903-4070,

 

[Flyin6]

If u r interested I have the twill for sale, like new, I’m in Hoover Al. U can call me if u r interested 205-903-4070,

I am...

 

[Mthorsen]

I am...

Give me a call whenever u can 205-903-4070, I’ll give u a great price

 

[Flyin6]

I'm a mechanical engineer and have worked on automotive builds of many types. I really think you're barking up the wrong tree regarding a weight reduction program on this type of truck. Basically, even if you took out 500# you barely recognize a power difference. Power curves on these engines are nowhere near linear, and the torque curve would barely notice a difference. Also, the wheel, suspension, and steering geometries are designed for the weight range of vehicle and cargo range. This type of truck used for regular and light off-road is not a good application for weight reduction. You will certainly cause more problems than you're solving. HOWEVER, if you are building a Baja racer, overland racer, bush racer, etc., then weight will make a big difference. But, in those cases they totally modify the vehicle from top to bottom to take out weight AND to create brand new suspension and steering geometries, major torque and horsepower increases, extreme engine and torque mods, shifting of center of gravity, shift weight distribution, etc. If you're doing it just to get up the next mountain road faster and easier, you have a "long, long road"...to go (Mr Tom Petty). In regard to the top you use, the hard top is not that heavy (approx 56# without freedom panels). The trill soft top provides a lot less road noise, can be left outside all year in snow/ice, and lasts 3-4 times longer. The regular soft top is lighter, but not by much. Both have a metal frame and metal slide back rails, frame, etc.

Spoken like a true engineer!
I could tell you stories for days...
So, I would take exception to most of what you have stated, respectfully, of course. ;-)
The truck does run better, it feels much more spirited than it did dragging around all that weight that it used to have. The torque curve is not linear but rushes on from idle and then flattens as the revs climb. All the driving one does is off idle, where you either experience the sprint or sled feel. No, this thing is W A Y better than it was.

Handling you say?? And something about the center of gravity? Two words: Clayton suspension, Icon wheels, and Falcon shocks...OK, a few more than two but I'm just a pilot and can't count very well, but you get the idea. Braking is better, no dive, cornering is better, heck, everything is better.
It would be hard to develop an algorithm for all the factors that are in play here, but it is much better. Now, I am not just a pilot but flew as an actual test pilot. Loads of engineering work here.

So many have been the day when I am listening to the engineers telling me how this thing is going to behave when I roll into a bank or slam the throttles or... And many have been the day when I have made the radio call, "Hey all that stuff you said it was going to do, well it isn't. It is doing _____ instead." Please do not take my comments as an attack on your well-respected profession, but partner, you're flat out about 100% wrong about this one. This truck is great. Way better than before.

As for the top, I concur...No real weight savings to be had, but maybe, just maybe a couple of pounds.
And
I will continue to create my own truth about this truck as I continue to reduce weight.
Hope we are all good...

 

[Rahkmalla]

Basically, even if you took out 500# you barely recognize a power difference.

I readily admit that the change in stimuli could be affecting perceptions, but my truck certainly feels faster when i take off the doors and top.

 

[Flyin6]

I readily admit that the change in stimuli could be affecting perceptions, but my truck certainly feels faster when i take off the doors and top.

My money says that you DO FEEL a difference. Weight:Power ratio is a real thing. Add 20HP or remove 100 pounds, or thereabouts, and the result is the same. That little 285HP V6 would be a quarter-mile screamer mounted in a Harley trike. Same power, but way less weight...

 

[jjdustr340]

Perhaps consider and aftermarket soft top like the Rugged Ridge Voyager? It’s frameless which shaves some weight. Shipping weight is listed at 66 lbs, so I’d peg it right about 60 lbs when on the Jeep.

 

[Flyin6]

Perhaps consider and aftermarket soft top like the Rugged Ridge Voyager? It’s frameless which shaves some weight. Shipping weight is listed at 66 lbs, so I’d peg it right about 60 lbs when on the Jeep.

I'll give it a look...No frame you say. Hmmm, interesting.

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