Bent Frames - Big Thing or isolated?

[chorky]

For anyone not wanting to watch the whole video, skip to 11:50. Looks like they have a pretty sweet truss design that I think will benefit and provide some sense of security to a lot of people pushing weight capacities. Appreciate the post Dale @Dakarra, I was debating weather or not to watch that video when it came out and opted to not, but glad I did, I'll be curious to see what they are charging for the truss.

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[GeneralMaximus]

5) I was prepared for some of the reactions I have received to my post. What I wasn't expecting was haters calling me stupid for making an observation - observations which are also factual. My conclusion(s) may be off, but don't challenge me on what I reported.

You’ll always get some flak for bringing up a product’s weakness on a forum for said product’s enthusiasts. And then some, like me, will be appreciative for the observation and new found knowledge. In this case, the location of the bump stop reinforcement bracket on my Mojave.

 

[piroman683]

I was also helping to differentiate the difference in failure modes, bend vs crack as most people are not familiar with the difference. I had not intended for anyone to feel dumb or stupid, and it sounds like that is not the case so I apologize. Again, there are a lot of people that dont understand mechanics of materials, and thats fine, there is no expectation that the whole JT community understands this stuff which is why these forums are a great place to share.

 

[Jrgunn5150]

I saw that photo years ago when they launched and still bought mine.

Of all the problems I have in the world, like the coming recession, my neighbors garage falling down, inevitably careening towards the bleak abyss that is death...

I just have plenty of things to actually deal with, that I can actually deal with, beyond maybes.

 

[Erievon]

I want to know more about these braces. Bolt on, Weld on? Mass production coming?

 

[Dakarra]

The ones from the shop in CA are being patented and will be mass produced for sale starting in June(ish) at shiftautowerx.com. I'm not sure whether they are welded, bolted, or both (from the video it looks like there is welding involved). The shop that is fixing mine fabs them as required and they are welded. And (as far as I know) they're not planning to market them for sale outside of their shop sales needs.

 

[Rusty PW]

There was a thread last year about bent frames and what a shop came up with to reinforce the frame. I'm at work, so I can't research it. Had lots of pictures too.

 

[ErylFlynn]

To help out, I watched this as well here is a link that takes you to the section where they talk about the frame bending.

Investigating 20 Broken Jeeps

 

[LostWoods]

To help out, I watched this as well here is a link that takes you to the section where they talk about the frame bending.

Investigating 20 Broken Jeeps

Saw that and I can say I've seen it on at least one JT. Ended up welding on side plates before we did the can mounts. I know he carried a bike on his hitch through the desert pretty regularly so checks out with the towing statement in the vid.

 

[BearFootSam]

I might guess the reason you don't hear about more of these or more correctly, those that have been bent is owner shame. Some folks might not like to advertise their adventures in stupidity.

I imagine it takes some effort to damage the frame, the result of a high energy event. What would stress me is if we started seeing prolific fatigue type failures from loading/towing: failed wheel bearings, cracked axles, etc, etc. But fortunately, we don't.

 

[MattK]

This is from a local San Diego shop that works on Jeeps a lot. (Video starts where he talks about the frame and shows where they see the crack)

 

[Dakarra]

That's a fair point and I can't speak for anyone else's driving/loading behavior. For myself I have not towed my trailer off-road at all. Period. The towed weight never exceeded about 3,500 lbs, and the tongue weight never exceeded about 300 pounds. Since my stock Willys (with tow package) is rated at 6,000 lbs I have been well within rated loads for the vehicle. The one thing is that I have towed it a long way multiple times - back and forth from Texas to Kentucky, Tennessee, Mississippi, Colorado, and Arizona. So have I towed it far? Yes, but always FAR under OEM rated weight/loads.

My second response to you is that I believe there are more of these failures than people realize. The JT has been around for what - 5 years? Unless there is a catastrophic failure caused by some "high energy event" this is not the kind of failure that manifests overnight. By this I mean, someone would need to be towing as much as I do for a problem to show up, and its not going to show up all at once.

According to Stelantis, there have been appx 345,000 Gladiators produced since introduction. From that number, how many are used for towing? For this point I will use an arbitrary 10% - with that arbitrary percentage you have about 34,000 customers that use their JTs for towing. From that number you would further reduce by the number that tow as much as I do - we'll use another arbitrary 10%. So from all the Gladiators produced there are probably about 3,400 that might experience this failure - or about 1% of the total units produced.

What all that elementary school math adds up to is that there are probably about 1% of the Gladiators produced that will experience this problem. The cautionary take-away is that if one is using their JT for towing it would not be a bad idea to get the frame checked by a certified shop.

Final point - I personally spoke to three different shops that have encountered this problem enough times that they have invested in developing a repair. One of the companies is even having their repair patented. You can tell me I'm crazy all you want, and you can tell me I must be abusing my vehicle - but business owners don't invest the resources to design and patent a repair unless they think there will a market for it.

 

[starrskream]

That's a fair point and I can't speak for anyone else's driving/loading behavior. For myself I have not towed my trailer off-road at all. Period. The towed weight never exceeded about 3,500 lbs, and the tongue weight never exceeded about 300 pounds. Since my stock Willys (with tow package) is rated at 6,000 lbs I have been well within rated loads for the vehicle. The one thing is that I have towed it a long way multiple times - back and forth from Texas to Kentucky, Tennessee, Mississippi, Colorado, and Arizona. So have I towed it far? Yes, but always FAR under OEM rated weight/loads.

My second response to you is that I believe there are more of these failures than people realize. The JT has been around for what - 5 years? Unless there is a catastrophic failure caused by some "high energy event" this is not the kind of failure that manifests overnight. By this I mean, someone would need to be towing as much as I do for a problem to show up, and its not going to show up all at once.

According to Stelantis, there have been appx 345,000 Gladiators produced since introduction. From that number, how many are used for towing? For this point I will use an arbitrary 10% - with that arbitrary percentage you have about 34,000 customers that use their JTs for towing. From that number you would further reduce by the number that tow as much as I do - we'll use another arbitrary 10%. So from all the Gladiators produced there are probably about 3,400 that might experience this failure - or about 1% of the total units produced.

What all that elementary school math adds up to is that there are probably about 1% of the Gladiators produced that will experience this problem. The cautionary take-away is that if one is using their JT for towing it would not be a bad idea to get the frame checked by a certified shop.

Final point - I personally spoke to three different shops that have encountered this problem enough times that they have invested in developing a repair. One of the companies is even having their repair patented. You can tell me I'm crazy all you want, and you can tell me I must be abusing my vehicle - but business owners don't invest the resources to design and patent a repair unless they think there will a market for it.

crazy enough I just saw the same video! this is the point in the video that shows the frames bending. honestly his repair seems pretty darn bullet proof.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

What I find interesting is the talk of "jumps" - has Jeep ever really marketed these as Dukes of Hazard type jumping vehicles?
Isn't jumping a bit beyond what they were marketed for? I've not seen anything on TV with a Jeep actually taking what I call any sort of jump.

 

[piroman683]

crazy enough I just saw the same video! this is the point in the video that shows the frames bending. honestly his repair seems pretty darn bullet proof.

a crack is different then a bend. Cracks are from cyclic loading, and usually are not from normal driving/towing conditions. To crack in that location requires a lot of off-nominal driving conditions (with or without towing).

Also, to the OP's point, maybe 3,400 vehicles could be affected - maybe. I'd be surprised if all 3 shops had more than 10+ customers a year that had a crack (30 per year total) and if they did I'd be interested in how the vehicle is really driven.

Now, just because there is more likeley less than a .1% failure rate, and those failures are rooted in misuse of the vehicle that should not stop any shop from making a product that adds strength and structural margin. I think it's great

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