Confused on Transmission Service

[Escape.idiocracy]

A flush? No way - never. I'd not do a flush or pay to have one done. I'm on the just say no to flush school.
Not necessary, more expensive and there's a small amount of risk.

I am glad you said this… I was pretty confident in my thoughts that transmission flushes on say 2000’s era vehicles and newer runs a risk of causing issues… (Unless someone can point out an example of a manufacturer calling for a flush ?) thought that was a thing of the past

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[LostWoods]

That's mostly engine maintenance. You don't have the same issues with the transmission on shorter drives. Beings they are all but sealed, dusty dirty conditions won't apply.

Transmissions have a totally different working environment. They aren't exposed to combustion process byproducts and so on.
Hot summers, unless extremes, don't matter as long as the transmission operating temperature is within limits.
Towing matters - but that depends on the towing and the load put on things. High torque loads, constant shifting, heat - those matter with a transmission. Not really the other stuff.
You mention a lot of things that "most" Jeep owners won't be putting these through.
And the rock-crawling lifted machines here are not indicative of a typical owner - it's the forum population, but not general population.

I disagree. The worst scenario for a transmission is frequent shifting and time spent out of lockup. Mountain driving, low speed commuting, and short trips - especially when cold - all cause accelerated wear. Servicing a transmission is about purging the worn materials and refreshing the fluid so the cleaning component of the fluid can do its job.

In the end I really don't care because not my truck, not my problem. I'm just speaking from my years under cars and while I've never seen a transmission die from more frequent servicing, nearly all the high mileage ones received more frequent than recommended servicing.

 

[Mr._Bill]

Trips under 10 miles in cold winters, stop and go traffic, towing regularly, mountain roads, dirty/dusty conditions, and hot summers all specify using the severe maintenance schedule. The commuting and climate ones alone cover most drivers and given these are Jeep pickups I sincerely hope a couple others apply as well.



No... Just no. That's not how that works at all and whoever told you is a liar. "Jeep Authorized" just means they're paying for a factory scan tool and there is no other certification. I worked at such a shop and it was part of the purchase agreement for the DRB-III and starscan.

Anyone, including yourself, can service the transmission under warranty. There's literally a law saying as much.

The manufacturer sets the terms for warranty coverage of their products. If they say not to break the seal, and you do, they have the right to deny coverage. Most manufacturers outline service procedures and authorize repair centers to try and keep the product within their specifications if it needs service. You are at the mercy of the authorized service provider if you need warranty repairs.

If there is an outlined service plan for a product, and you follow that plan, you can fight attempts to deny warranty coverage for the product.

 

[Lunentucker]

ZF 8HP Transmission Fluid Level Check - No Dipstick - YouTube

ZF 8-Speed Transmission Oil Change (BMW, Audi, VW, Dodge, Land Rover, Toyota, & More) - YouTube

Note: This one's a diesel, but it should be very similar.

 

[TheRealStreetcommander]

It’s interesting to me that some people struggle to believe that Manufacturers make specifications and maintenance recommendations based on government mandates, marketing research, and the ownership habits of likely purchasers, rather than to achieve the greatest practical terminal performance and durability.

Stellantis is a publicly traded company with huge debt burdens and obligations which direct their primary loyalty to their shareholders and debt holders. No one at Stellantis or any other big car maker cares anything about us, except to understand how to precisely separate us from the maximum amount our money.

I see nothing criminal or foolish in someone using their common sense to choose to change their trans fluid earlier than prescribed by government bureaucrats, lawyers, and social engineers writing and reviewing the service manual.

 

[Wheelin98TJ]

I am glad you said this… I was pretty confident in my thoughts that transmission flushes on say 2000’s era vehicles and newer runs a risk of causing issues… (Unless someone can point out an example of a manufacturer calling for a flush ?) thought that was a thing of the past

It depends how the flush is done.

If you’re just using the internal trans pump and the flush machine is a fancy collection container system, no problem. Or if you’re doing it at home using the trans cooler lines, also no problem.

Sometimes you have to flush, for example, when you fill it full of water.

 

[Maximus Gladius]

Sometimes you have to flush, for example, when you fill it full of water.

This is an interesting point…

The manual says “change the oil if contaminated with water etc.” In my case the analysis found glycol in there.

The book’s instructions is vague on what “change the oil” means. If you are getting a contaminant out, is this achieved by a pan drop or two or maybe 4 or 5 $$$$$ or is it done completely by a flush?

When I went in to see the service manager at 24k kms with analysis in hand and he knew how to read it and also knew it needed attention, he never suggested to drive it in to the service lane and have the concern documented (mistake #1). He said “we don’t do flushes but we can do 2 pan drops at $1700 cad X 2 at my cost because Chrysler won’t see anything wrong with it”.

Even at 2 pan drops, glycol would still be in there,…diluted, but still there and that shit loves to attack the internals and plug up the pump.

My problem with reading the book they tell us to follow is that no one, and I mean NO ONE, not even FCA customer care nor even the GM at the dealership I bought it could or would interpret the instructions in the book to change the oil and what exactly it meant. Being proactive having the best mechanical intentions landed their boot solidly up my ass and is still evident today with Chrysler putting a full warranty restriction on my VIN.

 

[Wheelin98TJ]

This is an interesting point…

The manual says “change the oil if contaminated with water etc.” In my case the analysis found glycol in there.

The book’s instructions is vague on what “change the oil” means. If you are getting a contaminant out, is this achieved by a pan drop or two or maybe 4 or 5 $$$$$ or is it done completely by a flush?

When I went in to see the service manager at 24k kms with analysis in hand and he knew how to read it and also knew it needed attention, he never suggested to drive it in to the service lane and have the concern documented (mistake #1). He said “we don’t do flushes but we can do 2 pan drops at $1700 cad X 2 at my cost because Chrysler won’t see anything wrong with it”.

Even at 2 pan drops, glycol would still be in there,…diluted, but still there and that shit loves to attack the internals and plug up the pump.

My problem with reading the book they tell us to follow is that no one, and I mean NO ONE, not even FCA customer care nor even the GM at the dealership I bought it could or would interpret the instructions in the book to change the oil and what exactly it meant. Being proactive having the best mechanical intentions landed their boot solidly up my ass and is still evident today with Chrysler putting a full warranty restriction on my VIN.

I think it’s mandatory to flush when the fluid is contaminated. Just use the transmission to push the fluid through like it does in normal operation. That’s the only way to get all the contaminated fluid out. And you might still have problems. Bad fluid will ruin an auto quick.

 

[LostWoods]

The manufacturer sets the terms for warranty coverage of their products. If they say not to break the seal, and you do, they have the right to deny coverage.

The courts have disagreed with you on this time and time again.

Most manufacturers outline service procedures and authorize repair centers to try and keep the product within their specifications if it needs service. You are at the mercy of the authorized service provider if you need warranty repairs.

If there is an outlined service plan for a product, and you follow that plan, you can fight attempts to deny warranty coverage for the product.

Yes, and YOU can do the service as long as it's according to procedures. There are consumer protections codified in law that prevent manufacturers from requiring you to have it serviced in certain places.

Recommended intervals is not procedure, it's minimum requirements to maintain warranty support. "Lifetime Fill" is a marketing term that mechanics and engineers laugh at because when the component inevitably dies early, the fluid did indeed last its entire life. It does not mean it will last the same as a component which was properly serviced.

I don't get where you get this idea that third party shops are "authorized" because that's not a thing. The only authorization is for extended warranty support which isn't a manufacturer's warranty, it's underwritten by a third party and branded with the manufacturer's name to instill false consumer confidence.

 

[rr11]

In my case at 55K I ask my dealer about servicing my transmission. I got a deer in the headlights look, and was told it's a life time fill. I bought the fluid and kit and changed it in my driveway. Used the transmission temp gauge on the cluster. Almost 30K ago so I think its all good. Next time I change it I think I will go with the aftermarket pan that holds a extra two quarts.

 

[Mr._Bill]

The courts have disagreed with you on this time and time again.



Yes, and YOU can do the service as long as it's according to procedures. There are consumer protections codified in law that prevent manufacturers from requiring you to have it serviced in certain places.

Recommended intervals is not procedure, it's minimum requirements to maintain warranty support. "Lifetime Fill" is a marketing term that mechanics and engineers laugh at because when the component inevitably dies early, the fluid did indeed last its entire life. It does not mean it will last the same as a component which was properly serviced.

I don't get where you get this idea that third party shops are "authorized" because that's not a thing. The only authorization is for extended warranty support which isn't a manufacturer's warranty, it's underwritten by a third party and branded with the manufacturer's name to instill false consumer confidence.

The courts are not going to rule against a manufacturer, unless their requirements to keep a warranty are unreasonable or violate existing laws. Past cases set current precedent. Most consumers do not have the money to fight it out in court.

I never said anything about third-party shops being authorized to do repairs. Manufacturers dictate who is authorized to do repair work under warranty. For Jeep, the dealerships are the authorized service providers. If they work on your Jeep and screw it up, your warranty is safe. If you do your own work on the vehicle, you are at the mercy of the dealer to get warranty coverage, regardless of any legal precedent.

Providing maintenance services, like changing fluids and filters, can be done by anyone. To maintain warranty coverage, you have to follow any manufacturer outlined procedures, and use manufacturer recommended, or equivalent, parts at the minimum required intervals.

Changing the fluid and filter will usually extend the life of a transmission, if done correctly using the proper fluid and filter. Jeep has removed the dip stick (user fill port) for the transmission. They say that the fluid doesn't need changed, unless it gets contaminated. If you change the fluid yourself, and get a warranty claim denied, the odds of you winning in court are extremely low. The members of the court are not engineers, and will defer to the manufacturer and other experts in the field. Stellantis manufacturers a ZF designed transmission and says the fluid does not need changed, under normal conditions.

 

[whiteglad]

We have a 60,000 mile warranty on the powertrain. Therefore, I think just over 60k is a good interval to make a decision, since I become my warranty station at that point. I plan to drop the pan, replace the filter, and add fluid then. If one of the extreme situations noted above occurs before then, a trip to the dealer and possible service earlier would be in order.

 

[jcarbs]

So, I got further clarification of how they came up with their numbers. In order to fully drain the transmission and put in new fluid, they have to drop the pan. Since the pan is single use only per the advisor, I have to replace the pan. Hence the numbers they came up with.

 

[Wheelin98TJ]

So, I got further clarification of how they came up with their numbers. In order to fully drain the transmission and put in new fluid, they have to drop the pan. Since the pan is single use only per the advisor, I have to replace the pan. Hence the numbers they came up with.

What the heck? How can it be only single use?

 

[jcarbs]

What the heck? How can it be only single use?

I'm only going by what I have been told. That's why I created this thread to find out what the greater Gladiator community thinks.

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